[CP1.1] Makoto Nanaya's Gameplay Discussion - When's 2.0?

[MoneyD90]

No idea why people are saying she is braindead considering her range is garbage vs. just about the entire cast and a good footsie game is a must. I think she has always been kind of popular but her lack of damage and just ok utility did not make a very strong character.

I vote we just enjoy that they finally gave us what seems like a good version of Makoto's CS gameplay (OD mode) and EX gameplay.

[7thFonon]

Makoto isn't exactly a complex character. So unless they make her completely garbage, there's a good chance she's gonna be easier to play than most characters obviously. But I don't think it's to the extent of braindead... You're still going to have to work in specific matchups.

[BlackKaizer]

I think everybodys jumping the gun a bit..this game has only been out a few days, and everyone in the roster is being used more or not equally. Just because makoto is being used significantly more so then in the past does not mean she will be overused. Nor is it reason enough to wish she was more complex, and rely more on gimmicks, then actual viable options..........

Because for me personally if I dont have to worry about crossing my fingers to nail that 1 frame micro dash after/before 2D into 2C for her 4-5k combos, or opt for her measly 3k corner combo, and above all that, take into consideration broken character hit boxes like noel valk, jin, then I'll glady except this new makoto. Even if she is if she a bit on the easy side.

[Ragnarok_F4]

I think everybodys jumping the gun a bit..this game has only been out a few days, and everyone in the roster is being used more or not equally. Just because makoto is being used significantly more so then in the past does not mean she will be overused. Nor is it reason enough to wish she was more complex, and rely more on gimmicks, then actual viable options..........

^Very true. I don't think she will be overused, she wasn't in CS1/CS2 and she won't be right now. With UNiB something similar happened, lots of seth's and yuzu's at first and now it's very balanced. Makoto won't be god tier this time to be considered either for those who want to play top. And she always was/is one of the simplest character of the cast (not braindead! nor Ragna). I think that this time we won't see overused characters anyway, even more when the cast has become really big to supply everyone tastes.

[Yazumatto]

I hope we aren't complaining for the sake of complaining. I like seeing more people playing my favorite character. More people means a higher chance for a godlike rep to appear and a higher chance of awesome tech to be discovered.

Besides, Makoto's normals are still below average. You have legs girl, kick someone!

[farranpoison]

So since I'm in Japan right now, I've been working on learning Makoto's new game (at least until Nu comes out >_>) and there are some things I've been wondering. Keep in mind that I didn't play BBCS:EX at all so I only know how Makoto worked from CS1.

It seems like 214A-D lvl3 is frame advantage on block, though I'm not sure, is this true? Also what is the point of the new 214A-C-D? Is it safe on block? I haven't used it much in my matches so I'm not sure.

Man, j.2C feels really useless now. Even on CH I could get hit out when I landed, the hitstun looks terrible. And the blockstun is almost negligible.

A midscreen combo I've been trying to do is 5B 5CC 2D(2) 5B 6A 2D(3) into aircombo, but the timing feels a bit iffy, especially if I tacked on a 2A before the initial 5B.

What exactly can you do after a successful 214A-C-A? I thought you could follow it up with a 5D but it looks like you can't anymore. Without RC, all I can think of doing after that is some 2A frametraps, though sometimes I have been able to connect that 2A into a combo, though the reasons why I'm not too sure, possibly a CH?

As for the people here thinking Makoto will be overused, that sure doesn't look like the case in the arcade I go to in Sannomiya. I've seen a lot of Bullets and Jins, but only like two other Makotos besides me. I'm sad to see also that her range is still pretty crap, and her projectile 236A-D doesn't seem like it has any use anymore other than random zoning, and on CH its pretty difficult to land a combo because the wallbounce has a strange trajectory. Perhaps that's why I haven't seen any players using it. I'm really digging her new 236D properties where it wallsticks. Makes corner combos pretty easy to do.

Edited November 26, 2012 by farranpoison

[7thFonon]

Yeah, I think stargazer or someone else said that 214A-C-D is plus on block. Not sure about 214A-D.... And j2C was pretty bad in Extend (dunno how it compared to previous games though).

As for starting a combo off CH projectile.... in Extend I know you can just run up and 5CC into whatever, or use 214A-C-delay-B, into whatever. But that's in a previous version of course, so it might not work in CP.

Though tbh, You probably know more about this game than we do. You can actually play it. :v

Besides, Makoto's normals are still below average. You have legs girl, kick someone!

she does. 3C is actually a sweep kick and j2C she attacks with her tail. :P But yeah, another kick/tail attack would be nice.

[Yazumatto]

Yea, I am aware of j.B, 3C and j.2C. What I want is a kick of death. Why do characters with swords get god kicks as well?

Don't answer that question by the way. It was rhetorical.

[farranpoison]

Whoever said 214A-C-D was safe of block was correct. I was playing against a Tager for a while the past hour and after a 214A-C-D I could get in a CH 2A. I also had the most horrifying revelation during that time. 3C can't go under Tager's Spark Bolt, which I could have sworn you could do in CS1, unless I'm delusional. Either way, I am not looking forward to this new Tager vs Makoto matchup. His new air grabs have gotten me from time to time and his new body slam thing clashed with my 6A once and went through it.

[excelence]

3C on extend can pass through Spark Bolt and many other attack without foot attribute, but mostly on Yomi not on reaction, since the invulnerability frames come late.

BTW really liking how our squirrel turn up at CP ... and 214a~d is Plus on block is pretty sick, can we treat it like Ragna DS on cs2/extend?

[farranpoison]

I was pretty sure that the Spark Bolt hit me in the middle of the animation of 3C. I was at neutral game and thought "hey, this is probably when I'm gonna be SB'd" so I did 3C, then the Spark Bolt came out and hit me into much sadness. I could be completely wrong though, I was pretty frustrated over the matchup.

[StarGazer]

Whoever said 214A-C-D was safe of block was correct. I was playing against a Tager for a while the past hour and after a 214A-C-D I could get in a CH 2A. I also had the most horrifying revelation during that time. 3C can't go under Tager's Spark Bolt, which I could have sworn you could do in CS1, unless I'm delusional. Either way, I am not looking forward to this new Tager vs Makoto matchup. His new air grabs have gotten me from time to time and his new body slam thing clashed with my 6A once and went through it.

Maybe SB have foot attribute now you should remeber that 3C no longer have Invu throughout the whole move, only in the middle part during the first spin though it could have been changed in CP idk.

Yea, I am aware of j.B, 3C and j.2C. What I want is a kick of death. Why do characters with swords get god kicks as well?

Well, some people have legendary swords, some of em have magic, others have lasers. We?, we only have two tons of fur and that's why we have j.2C which i think its a butt dive more than a kick =/

Edit: Buppa is back to Makoto, he used to main her in CS2 with Hazama. Kagetsu subbed her in EX but looks like he is going to MAIN her now?

Edited November 26, 2012 by StarGazer

[milesw]

As for the people here thinking Makoto will be overused, that sure doesn't look like the case in the arcade I go to in Sannomiya.

Sanx or magical space? xD

Yea, I am aware of j.B, 3C and j.2C. What I want is a kick of death.

those are pretty deathlike lol

Edited November 26, 2012 by milesw

[HiagoX]

So since I'm in Japan right now, I've been working on learning Makoto's new game (at least until Nu comes out >_>) and there are some things I've been wondering. Keep in mind that I didn't play BBCS:EX at all so I only know how Makoto worked from CS1.

It seems like 214A-D lvl3 is frame advantage on block, though I'm not sure, is this true? Also what is the point of the new 214A-C-D? Is it safe on block? I haven't used it much in my matches so I'm not sure.

Man, j.2C feels really useless now. Even on CH I could get hit out when I landed, the hitstun looks terrible. And the blockstun is almost negligible.

A midscreen combo I've been trying to do is 5B 5CC 2D(2) 5B 6A 2D(3) into aircombo, but the timing feels a bit iffy, especially if I tacked on a 2A before the initial 5B.

What exactly can you do after a successful 214A-C-A? I thought you could follow it up with a 5D but it looks like you can't anymore. Without RC, all I can think of doing after that is some 2A frametraps, though sometimes I have been able to connect that 2A into a combo, though the reasons why I'm not too sure, possibly a CH?

As for the people here thinking Makoto will be overused, that sure doesn't look like the case in the arcade I go to in Sannomiya. I've seen a lot of Bullets and Jins, but only like two other Makotos besides me. I'm sad to see also that her range is still pretty crap, and her projectile 236A-D doesn't seem like it has any use anymore other than random zoning, and on CH its pretty difficult to land a combo because the wallbounce has a strange trajectory. Perhaps that's why I haven't seen any players using it. I'm really digging her new 236D properties where it wallsticks. Makes corner combos pretty easy to do.

Wow you're still alive.

[Eshi]

So if Makoto is good she's braindead and if she sucks Ragna's braindead.

Makoto is Ragna in drag. Their specifics are different but they basically have the same, simple frame trap/footsie play style. It doesn't surprise me that people say this, but no character is brain dead. Except Taokaka.

New side-switching combo, works on a lot of characters: [stuff on crouch] > 214ACB > 66 > 2A > 5B > jump combo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIAjfWHa9pM&feature=g-u-u&t=2m25s

Edited November 26, 2012 by Eshi

[GenoWhirl]

I was pretty sure that the Spark Bolt hit me in the middle of the animation of 3C. I was at neutral game and thought "hey, this is probably when I'm gonna be SB'd" so I did 3C, then the Spark Bolt came out and hit me into much sadness. I could be completely wrong though, I was pretty frustrated over the matchup.

Farran, my bro <3

alsohihiago

[farranpoison]

Sanx or magical space? xD

I usually play at Yu Space Magical, right next to the JR station.

Wow you're still alive.

Yes, I'm alive. Suddenly, I appear! XD

I haven't been here in a long time since I quit BB and moved on to other games, but since I'm in Japan now anyway I thought I might as well try CP out. And so far, I'm liking it a lot more than I ever did CS.

Edited November 26, 2012 by farranpoison

[Bibiquadium]

I thought Makoto would be great in BBCP, but despite the fact that she's better than in Extend, so is 90% of the cast (on paper). I'll eventually have to start looking at matches.

[Eshi]

I thought Makoto would be great in BBCP, but despite the fact that she's better than in Extend, so is 90% of the cast (on paper). I'll eventually have to start looking at matches.

This is accurate. However her new midscreen hit confirms will definitely be a huge boon to her gameplay so I wouldn't short sell her. I think she'll end up mid tier - she has just as many (a few more) tools as in Extend but hits harder and carries to the corner more easily.

[BlackKaizer]

I thought Makoto would be great in BBCP, but despite the fact that she's better than in Extend, so is 90% of the cast (on paper). I'll eventually have to start looking at matches.

To be fair makoto was very close to balanced in extend, and had all the proper tools to make her such.....though its just that they all sucked. Now that thats no longer the case, and she has new ones also to add to her arsenal I believe, even with the rest of the cast buffs she'll be a tough contender from now on.

Her pressure game is looking to be nothing sort of amazing, not rachels kind of amazing but hers is so far 2nd to non anyways.

[Bibiquadium]

I'm not saying Makoto herself will be a bad character but her already bad matchups are getting buffed, with the exception of Ragna, for no reason at all just to make the matter worse and I feel uncomfortable with the way BBCP is at the moment.

[StarGazer]

Makoto CP is Makoto Extend with better ability to confirm into corner combos (better abare). Some minor buffs and nerfs here and there but they wont have any impacty changes.

EX Makoto was Oh-key imo, i never blamed Makoto for any of my loses.

New side-switching combo, works on a lot of characters: [stuff on crouch] > 214ACB > 66 > 2A > 5B > jump combo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIAjfWHa9pM&feature=g-u-u&t=2m25s

Cool, we could do that in Extend, but it doesn't look 1 frame tight as it used to be and will work from any starter.

[BlackKaizer]

Makoto CP is Makoto Extend with better ability to confirm into corner combos (better abare).Some minor buffs and nerfs here and there but they wont have any impacty changes.

EX Makoto was Oh-key imo, i never blamed Makoto for any of my loses.

Cool, we could do that in Extend, but it doesn't look 1 frame tight as it used to be and will work from any starter.

If that was all they improved of her in CP she would have ended up as something less then decent as she is in extend.

Supposedly easier combos

Frame traps/pressure resets in cosmic ray/thunder blow

Significantly improved pressure

Improved corner carry

Better Oki

Higher damage output

astral vision more viable now for approach,pressure, and mix up

But despite all this even she may still end up bottom, though regardless win/losses will at the very least feel more legit.

[Yazumatto]

You guys are some real hype-killers, you know that? It's barely been a week and we're already on that sudoku watch talk. :/

There's nothing that indicates that she's completely free to another character or anything that indicates that she can't compete in this game. I wasn't expecting anything close to top-tier status but I do like what I see so far.

[HiagoX]

Too much speculation. Only things we're sure of are that Makoto's defintely better and should have an easier time against some characters, and that matchups like Taokaka will definitely be even worse to deal with.

alsohihiago

Hi.