[CP] Izayoi Gameplay Discussion - Tobe! Gandamu!

[Surf]

The only stance canceled normal thats + in Gain Art is 2C. It goes from +5 to +1 with the stance cancel.

NM

• Lv 2: -4 (5B, 2B)

• Lv 3: -1 (5C, 2C, 3C)

• Lv 4: +1 (6C)

GA

• Lv 2: -4 (5B, 2B)

• Lv 3: -1 (5C)

• Lv 4: +1 (2C)

[Rhannmah]

I stance cancel 5b, mostly. Of course it's unsafe, but the sheer amount of things you can do after 5b(6c, stance cancel 66 j.b, D sonic saber, stance cancel 5b, crusade seraphim, etc.) should keep them pretty passive unless they want to get punished from something else against what they do that would beat 66 j.b.

[Leonil_Requiem]

Hey, what's Sonic Sabre D on hit? First Frame. On the ground. Between the first frame of recovery and the when the hit stun runs out.

[Celerity]

Hey, what's Sonic Sabre D on hit? First Frame. On the ground. Between the first frame of recovery and the when the hit stun runs out.

According to the frame data, it should be +31 at point blank, but I don't know how much I would trust the frame data in cases like these.

[Cambuki]

Ok so does anyone else have trouble doing a wake up phorizer? I always get aegis blade or 236 c lol..... Maybe I don't understand the wake up time very well or something lol but idk

[crimsonstardust]

Ok so does anyone else have trouble doing a wake up phorizer? I always get aegis blade or 236 c lol..... Maybe I don't understand the wake up time very well or something lol but idk

I have a harder time doing this when lag is present, usually I dunno if its me botching the input from panicing a little or if something else is going on like eating a meaty to the face or something, though this seems to be the case with me trying to wake up with something mostly. I usually try to input reversals when I see that my character has gotten up a little after the tech.

[Cambuki]

Ah ok I'll try to keep that in mind.

[Angel-tastic]

Ok so does anyone else have trouble doing a wake up phorizer? I always get aegis blade or 236 c

Heh, I sometimes do the opposite in the middle of combos when I want to do Aegis blade, but accidentally input Justice Phorizer (e.g. Normal Mode Air Throw - Dash~2C - Aegis Blade Justice Phorizer ).

It seem like that happens because I'm holding down for 2C, so my input ends up like 2C36236C, which counts as Justice Phorizer.

Maybe you're doing what I'm trying to do and inputting 23623C, which is Aegis Blade, or 23236C, which is Crusade Seraphim Beta (which I only input by accident when I'm rushing the Justice Phorizer input, lol).

I hope that helps some.

[crimsonstardust]

Heh, I sometimes do the opposite in the middle of combos when I want to do Aegis blade, but accidentally input Justice Phorizer (e.g. Normal Mode Air Throw - Dash~2C - Aegis Blade Justice Phorizer ).

It seem like that happens because I'm holding down for 2C, so my input ends up like 2C36236C, which counts as Justice Phorizer.

I actually have something similar happen too, usually for me when I'm in normal mode doings corner throw and trying to do 2C 623C in this combo, throw 236B 214A 2C 623C stuff. I know that 623C can hit grounded opponents but it misses on some so I try to have that down for those pesky ones that are too low to the ground... Though if I swap 2C with 2B I usually can get around it for less damage.

[Adam0812]

The only stance canceled normal thats + in Gain Art is 2C. It goes from +5 to +1 with the stance cancel.

NM

•Lv 2: -4 (5B, 2B)

•Lv 3: -1 (5C, 2C, 3C)

•Lv 4: +1 (6C)

GA

•Lv 2: -4 (5B, 2B)

•Lv 3: -1 (5C)

•Lv 4: +1 (2C)

Woah that is really helpful surf cheers surf

[crimsonstardust]

The only stance canceled normal thats + in Gain Art is 2C. It goes from +5 to +1 with the stance cancel.

NM

• Lv 2: -4 (5B, 2B)

• Lv 3: -1 (5C, 2C, 3C)

• Lv 4: +1 (6C)

GA

• Lv 2: -4 (5B, 2B)

• Lv 3: -1 (5C)

• Lv 4: +1 (2C)

Wait what are these levels? Does the stance have different properties or something for how long you hold them for or am I not on the right track?

[Surf]

Each move in the game has an atk level which determines the amount of blockstun/hitstun/etc the opponent is in when they make contac with it. 5B and 2B for example are two different normals but both are Lv 2 moves. So they both place the opponent in 13 frames of blockstun when any active frame makes contact with them and they block. From the earliest stance cancel your -4 from 5/2B. Same applies to the other moves. Look on the wiki to read about it in depth

As for the numbers. C Stance can be canceled after frame 7. And the recovery of stance cancel is 10 frames. So 7 for the startup and 10 for the recovery has C stances entire duration as 17 frames. Its just simple subtraction

Lv 2 moves place the opponent in 13 frames of blockstun. Canceling from the first active frame of said normal, 13 (blockstun) - 17 (stance cancel duration) = -4

Just do the same with the other normals once you see what attack levels they are and you get the results I mentioned before

Edited March 6, 2014 by Surf

[crimsonstardust]

Oh ok gotcha, I guess I should take a look at that if I'm gonna keep playing this game as well. On a related note, does it matter which move you use to enter stance for stance cancel stuff? It might been me not having it quite practiced but it seemed like when I used 236B the time to stance cancel in some casuals today, I couldn't leave the stance as I pressed A or didn't leave the stance as quick as it ended up as a delayed 236B sometime, but like I said it might of been me.

[Surf]

Yes it matters. You might have pressed A too early since you cant stance cancel 236B until frame 10. As opposed to frame 7 with 236C. 236C stance cancel duration is 17 frames. 623B is 18 frames. 236B is 22 frames. This is all taking into account that your doing it as early as possible. The best one to do is 236C since it has the least amount of overall duration.

[crimsonstardust]

Ok that makes sense, I thought it was weird cause I remember it being pretty quick when I tried 236C in training room and figured cause 236B shared the same stance animation it should be fine to use the B one, I guess I'll have to start getting used to using 236C for it.

[Surf]

Just remember shes still minus on them bar 6C. Which doesn't amount to much since her 2A is 8 frames

Dont get too happy with constant pressure resets with them, but their still good and have their uses

[crimsonstardust]

Alright got it, I can imagine she could get swatted out if the opponent isn't conditioned to block her attacks in GA mode and such. I should of asked this earlier cause I just remembered, does Izayoi have any viable frame traps? I've been having trouble conditioning my opponent to not press buttons at times cause I easily do this better with some other characters I play but not so much with Izayoi cause I'm getting a little of sick of my mix ups getting trashed by mashed 2As and such. OTL

[Rhannmah]

Man, looking at these numbers and comparing them with Johnny's makes me cry on the inside

[Surf]

Alright got it, I can imagine she could get swatted out if the opponent isn't conditioned to block her attacks in GA mode and such. I should of asked this earlier cause I just remembered, does Izayoi have any viable frame traps? I've been having trouble conditioning my opponent to not press buttons at times cause I easily do this better with some other characters I play but not so much with Izayoi cause I'm getting a little of sick of my mix ups getting trashed by mashed 2As and such. OTL

At what point in your pressure are you mashed out of the most

[crimsonstardust]

I usually try to do stuff like 2A x2 to something like hover dash C, probably not a good option seeing how that doesn't gattling into hover dash c or anything like that. Most of the stuff I'm getting hit out of is when I'm in and I'm trying to do hover dash 50-50s or do tick throw set ups. I usually find the only way I can usually force a mix up is getting them to block D Sonic saber. I know it was mentioned earlier that you can use 6C to catch mashing and such (just remembered that post...). It seems like when I'm in they block my string and then I keep myself safe and if I try to do something tricky when I'm in again, I get mashed out...

[Surf]

Well without 236D beforehand hover is never really safe to do during pressure.

So the problem is mostly during gain art then. If they start pressing buttons or attempting to upback to stop any hover mixup a string like 2A > 5/B > 2C will blow them up. Or just 2AA > 2C, but that has a bigger gap. So just 2A > 5/2B > 2C is usually fine. If they dont mash or upback and just sit there, your at +5. 236D can also be used to frametrap as well.

6C is iffy. Izayoi is left at +1 but the pushback on it is real. Certain character I wouldnt advice using it against at all, like Ragna. Using 6C on him and attempting to reset pressure will get you hit by his 5B if he uses that as the answer. Her 5B is 10 frames so and Ragna's is 8 frames. So he's still got the advantage of 1 frame of startup over you. And 2A's range is too short to catch them. On CH 6C is ok but sometimes its hard to followup because of the blowback. Times when I use it is when I see my opponent is clutching barrier trying to push me out. I use 6C to get back in and keep them in blockstun. Or to catch their upback attempt once they think they've pushed me out enough. If they mash when you do something tricky then just go for basic pressure and see at which points theyll try to act up.

Edited March 6, 2014 by Surf

[Dj75728]

Sorry if this has already been discussed somewhere and I couldn't find it, but is Trans-am viable? Can it be comboed into for decent damage? Even just for flash?

[Justice7541]

Slaver is super flash but pretty situational. If's good if you get, like, 2C fatal and don't need to conserve stocks. Which is pretty rare as you can probably imagine.

[Celerity]

Yeah Trans-Am is the best damage you can get midscreen on a crouching opponent or from counterhit, but otherwise, it's not super viable. It doesn't actually cover any important gaps in your GA pressure aside from making your gimmicks safer, and the star requirement means it's not a very good choice when you're forced to switch to normal mode.

Edit: Oh yeah, and if you do get a confirm while Trans-Am is active, it'll mess up your combo route and probably lead to less damage than normal if you don't drop the combo outright.

Edited March 8, 2014 by Celerity

[Dj75728]

Thx you guys. I always forget about the stock requirement. Not really sure why they didn't alter Trans-am in the new update. Oh well, I'll just sit here wishing Trans-am was good ;_;