[Xrd] News & (Theoretical) Gameplay Discussion

[the_d3v]

How would it lead to an unblockable?

Since the opponent is in time slowed state and Millia isn't, I'm wondering if, when she inputs a high or low depending on how the opponent blocks the RCed tandem top, the opponent can react in time during the time slowed state.

[Henaki]

Since the opponent is in time slowed state and Millia isn't, I'm wondering if, when she inputs a high or low depending on how the opponent blocks the RCed tandem top, the opponent can react in time during the time slowed state.

This won't ever happen.

[Tari]

Since the opponent is in time slowed state and Millia isn't, I'm wondering if, when she inputs a high or low depending on how the opponent blocks the RCed tandem top, the opponent can react in time during the time slowed state.

I'm pretty sure the time slow doesn't affect blocking. Can't think of a game that has time slow, where it prevents blocking on reaction. What it does prevent is attacking or recovering as fast as usual.

Not sure if it's any different in Xrd, but I'm doubtful that they'd make you unable to block during RC slowdown. Pretty much would guarantee every character unblockables for 50 meter.

If you mean visually confirming a fuzzy guard opportunity off of Tandem Top (is that possible anyway? I have no idea), I guess it might work.

[shtkn]

the tension meter clearly has markings at 25/50/75 percent full, but so far nothing uses only 25% meter... i guess we got more mechanics on the way.

i hope they can balance them this time around. AC felt like the 25 meter options were much much more useful than the 50 meter ones

[Rhiya]

Has anyone asked that, actually?

@loketest attendees: what slows down for the defending player during timeslow?

[Henaki]

the tension meter clearly has markings at 25/50/75 percent full, but so far nothing uses only 25% meter... i guess we got more mechanics on the way.

i hope they can balance them this time around. AC felt like the 25 meter options were much much more useful than the 50 meter ones

yeah I agree. 25% meter things should be more gimmicky or lead to more damage in strange situations. They shouldn't be like FRC Resengeki or Hammerfall which are versatile hitconfirms that relead into pressure. That said, meterless pressure should be tweaked to be slightly better imo

[Silmerion]

the tension meter clearly has markings at 25/50/75 percent full, but so far nothing uses only 25% meter... i guess we got more mechanics on the way.

i hope they can balance them this time around. AC felt like the 25 meter options were much much more useful than the 50 meter ones

They mentioned that one of the problems with AC was that there was never rarely a good reason to use RCs, so they wanted to tweak the mechanic such that people would care about them again.

[Henaki]

They mentioned that one of the problems with AC was that there was never rarely a good reason to use RCs, so they wanted to tweak the mechanic such that people would care about them again.

I guess a good reason to not include FRCs is to make people use the new RC

[Blade]

Way I see it, you can RC almost anything at ANY time during its animation, so you'd have umpteen different ways to mess with people on block.

[the_d3v]

Has anyone asked that, actually?

@loketest attendees: what slows down for the defending player during timeslow?

I'd like to know as well. Does it just slow stuff down in general (i.e. add frames of animation)? Is it just on attacks? Does it add some input delay?

[Rhiya]

I think 25% is a solid point for things that shouldn't always be usable but are still important for the character to work, like FRCs. It's just a limiter to put on more powerful tools, much like other genres use cooldowns.

[Henaki]

I think 25% is a solid point for things that shouldn't always be usable but are still important for the character to work, like FRCs. It's just a limiter to put on more powerful tools, much like other genres use cooldowns.

This has come up before, but the problem with FRCs is you offer all of these tools (RCs, Overdrives, DAAs etc), but when the most versatile and generally powerful tool happens to be FRCs, it detracts from the amount of useful decisions you have to make with meter.

You don't need any more tools when all the problems are nails deal.

What ends up happening is things that could be interesting uses of meter and interesting and creative things you can do no longer matter because your best course of action is to do repeated safe pressure with FRC moves that beat tons of other moves, or create the most powerful mixups for you when you finally get a KD.

Cooldowns are different because cooldowns usually don't put other moves on cooldown (or when they do, it's for a second or is so powerful, the tradeoff is necessary). Powerful FRCs and forcebreaks were usually "the" decision to make, and so RCs and Overdrives rarely showed up in competitive play the later and later you got into GG. (They weren't invalidated, but the uses became more nuanced and premeditated).

This is IMO the reason the game is returning to #R roots. Around that time, the game started center piecing around 25% meter moves, which in return, removed decision trees involved with meter.

Edited August 9, 2013 by Henaki

[Jocelot]

Guilty Gear wants us to appreciate RC's again, eh? Sure why not.

[youcanwonder]

The YRC happens when you RC a move on whiff, it costs 50% like the regular RC, there is no FRC point.

When you YRC the time gets slower for everyone but you for a brief time, i don't know if it happens for regular FRC, someone that has tested the game could say if it happens or not.

Also apparently there are some moves that can't be YRC, there is a visual cue that puts an X over the characters portrait if you try to YRC a move that can't be YRC'ed

Thank you Hecatom. So there still are FRCS..just added some whiff rc's which could be super cool esp if it slows down time lol. Though can be a scary feature for some chars esp w/ projectiles

[Tari]

Thank you Hecatom. So there still are FRCS..just added some whiff rc's which could be super cool esp if it slows down time lol. Though can be a scary feature for some chars esp w/ projectiles

There are no FRCs in the game at the moment, nor are there any confirmed FRCs planned to be added in.

I think he meant normal RCs?

[Blade]

:/

You people and your confusing false terminology.

There is only ONE type of RC in this game so far: 50% Roman Cancel.

The fact people are calling projectile timeslow RCs YRCs is misleading as all hell. People are gonna think this is GG Isuka with Robo-Ky factory again.

ORIGINAL YRCs cost 12%, they were half the amount of an FRC (25%).

Sure, yeah the flash and shinies LOOK YELLOW, BUT THEY STILL COST 50%.

Every major action costs 50% now (Overdrives, Dead Angles, Roman Cancel). End of Line.

[Rhiya]

This has come up before, but the problem with FRCs is you offer all of these tools (RCs, Overdrives, DAAs etc), but when the most versatile and generally powerful tool happens to be FRCs, it detracts from the amount of useful decisions you have to make with meter.

You don't need any more tools when all the problems are nails deal.

What ends up happening is things that could be interesting uses of meter and interesting and creative things you can do no longer matter because your best course of action is to do repeated safe pressure with FRC moves that beat tons of other moves, or create the most powerful mixups for you when you finally get a KD.

Cooldowns are different because cooldowns usually don't put other moves on cooldown (or when they do, it's for a second or is so powerful, the tradeoff is necessary). Powerful FRCs and forcebreaks were usually "the" decision to make, and so RCs and Overdrives rarely showed up in competitive play the later and later you got into GG. (They weren't invalidated, but the uses became more nuanced and premeditated).

This is IMO the reason the game is returning to #R roots. Around that time, the game started center piecing around 25% meter moves, which in return, removed decision trees involved with meter.

All I can really say is that, sometimes, effective balance doesn't look how we expect or want it to look. Even if the meter system is based around using 25% moves most of the time, and the 50% ones are less useful, that doesn't mean it's actually bad for the game. I'd even say that, from a move creation standpoint, putting less critical things at 50% makes sense, because a character will have less opportunities to use a 50% move than a 25% move during the match. If you move the most critical or important tools to the top end of the cost spectrum, matches become very swingy based on who has meter, and certain characters become cripples without large amounts of meter that they probably won't have when they need it. By putting it at 25%, you make it so that powerful tools can get used reasonably often, but still have limitations.

If I remember right, you do balance work, so this is probably not a forgiving argument to start

[OneSanitarium]

Blade, YRC's in AC just half the meter needed for RCs and FRC's. And I wouldn't even consider it an actual mechanic, just a side option...since it's from the Extra Menu.

Calling the whiff/projectile RC's YRC's would be easier than clarifying "5H RC on whiff". 5H YRC would be much easier. You really shouldn't care so much.

[Henaki]

Gold RCs.

Bam.

Problem solved.

[SolxBaiken]

Well Ishiwatari said in his interview [translated by Suzaku] that this time around different color variants would be key to the RC system, so it you don't want people calling them by color, what do you want?

[Blade]

Gold RCs.

Bam.

Problem solved.

Brilliant. :D

[Osuna]

Yeah we're all gonna call them YRCs. I just read a bajillion pages of loketest notes, but I don't think anyone said what version of slidehead Pot has. There are 3 versions that do very very different things.

[SoWL]

I like the term Modern Cancel, though the focus should be shifted from the act of YRC'ing the move to the move's property of being possible to YRC. But "YRC-able" or "Whiff-RC-able" just doesn't roll of the tongue.

[Destin]

Here would be an interesting example of how they could work in both. I apologize for the dizzy analogies, but she is the character I know best.

Dizzy has an icespike, this icespike is KD on hit, and punishable on block. A possible solution would be to make the move safe on block at the frc point, and maybe allow you to setup a slightly better mixup on hit. But at the YRC point, it's not only safe, but good frame advantage, and allows for a further combo that does good damage (like, reload damage). This would encourage me to think about all 3 options, and change my gameplay styles as the meter increased.

Of course there is more to it than just that, but I am inclinded to agree that even in #R the FRC's were a biiiiit too strong. And they only got stronger from there.

[Tari]

YRC in general doesn't roll off the tongue very well, but that's not really a discussion that needs to happen right now.

I'm still hoping for some actual video footage of the game in action.