SuperJ Posted April 25, 2014 Posted April 25, 2014 clearing up some things: How does the YRC freeze work, is your character actually hittable? How would millia's have changed that much, can't you just yrc a bit earlier and still have it hit on the same frame? you can be hit (and lose the 25% you spent) out of YRC startup because it's not instant. it's like 6+0 for YRC, 1+0 for red RC, and 16+0 for PRC? a kind fellow posted numbers way back but things get lost real quick around here. also the RC freeze defeats the premise of haircar mixup. i.e. the early FRC j.K part re: pacing, hitstun and hitstop are the same as XX with a couple of exceptions. kedako tweeted it sometime back? fafffffuniiiiur hitstop is half a second though lol. run acceleration does seem nerfed but human perception is so fickle! re: fafnir, it used to be 17f startup and +3. it's now 18f and +4 from what i can tell. i think it also beats low profile. or at least it inexplicably hits OTG
TITANIUM BEAST!!! Posted April 25, 2014 Posted April 25, 2014 Fafnir was + on block until +R re-introduced the non-FB version. It goes something like this: XX-Slash: 17F startup, +3 on block, cannot be cancelled into AC: FB version, 11F startup, +7 on block, cannot be cancelled into. +R: Normal version added back, 19F startup, -13 on block, can be cancelled into. Xrd: Back to XX-Slash version? To be clear, while I'm not sure if Xrd's version is actually slower or the same speed as the original XX-Slash version, the way it animates gives the impression that it's faster. It seems to animate more subtly, which may make it harder to react to. However, you now have an audio cue as well, which may make it easier to react to. Of course, if you take YRC into account, it may all be irrelevant. EDIT: Updated with frame info.
Destin Posted April 25, 2014 Posted April 25, 2014 clearing up some things: you can be hit (and lose the 25% you spent) out of YRC startup because it's not instant. it's like 6+0 for YRC, 1+0 for red RC, and 16+0 for PRC? a kind fellow posted numbers way back but things get lost real quick around here. also the RC freeze defeats the premise of haircar mixup. i.e. the early FRC j.K part re: pacing, hitstun and hitstop are the same as XX with a couple of exceptions. kedako tweeted it sometime back? fafffffuniiiiur hitstop is half a second though lol. run acceleration does seem nerfed but human perception is so fickle! re: fafnir, it used to be 17f startup and +3. it's now 18f and +4 from what i can tell. i think it also beats low profile. or at least it inexplicably hits OTG So if they didn't change hitstop, how did they change pacing? Just the acceleration nerf? For millia, you should be able to YRC early and get the jump K to hit at around the same frame as the haircar, which was the point of the original mixup. You just have to do it earlier. When I talk about things like fafnir being safe, I'm speaking specifically from the mindset of #R, because that is 95% what this game is based on.
stickystaines Posted April 25, 2014 Posted April 25, 2014 The thing that people don't seem to talk about with RC's is what options the bullet time gives you now. You have a ridiculous amount of hitstun now on because moves into RC to the point where you can RC run up and still combo. Stuff like Sol 5S 5HS RC bandit bringer allows him to get damage, corner carry and/or oki. Slayer can hitconfirm pilebunker into RC in the corner and still combo and the bullet time still allows him to go straight into dandy step and do whatever. These increase options negate the need for an on-hit FRC for me somewhat. In a way i think it would detract from the game, since if a character has good uses for an on-hit FRC, then players might only save meter for FRC situations and possibly reducing the creative ways it's being used now.
Destin Posted April 25, 2014 Posted April 25, 2014 Fafnir was + on block in #R as well. Yeah, that's what I was saying too. I think the RC system is really really going to increase abare. Any random hit +50% will mean a near optimal combo. FYI I THINK sol can do 5H gunflame RC 5H bandit -> Whatever. Sounds like damage!
TITANIUM BEAST!!! Posted April 25, 2014 Posted April 25, 2014 Abare /= random damage, I thought? Thought it referred more to attacking out of disadvantage.
redsilversnake Posted April 25, 2014 Posted April 25, 2014 Abare /= random damage, I thought? Thought it referred more to attacking out of disadvantage. According to those I know of who speak Japanese, this is true.
Destin Posted April 25, 2014 Posted April 25, 2014 So what is the term for landing random hits not in a setup such as a faust 5S or a jam far s?
Destin Posted April 25, 2014 Posted April 25, 2014 I know there IS a specific term for it, poking seems a bit imprecise given how nuanced the term already is.
stickystaines Posted April 25, 2014 Posted April 25, 2014 I've seen abare used in the sense of damage off random hits. Might just be a western thing though. Heard it for both the random damage and attacking at disadvantage, though only the former within 2d games and the latter within 3d.
D.R.F. Posted April 25, 2014 Posted April 25, 2014 I remember reading kys 2Hs as a move for abare, like get a countersuit air combo of a trade and stuff. Haven't heard being used for anything else haha
Clousephinat Posted April 25, 2014 Posted April 25, 2014 Talking about that, is there any move in Xrd that pushes the enemy in the corner besides Fafnir and Pile Bunker? Only to be sure because on the other hand, Faust is now the only character able to poison the enemy.
Ronove Posted April 25, 2014 Posted April 25, 2014 Thought it referred more to attacking out of disadvantage. ^correct In japanese it means "to react violently to something", which in fighting games translates into attacking out of disadvantage/when you're under pressure. It doesn't mean converting random hits into damage, that's a wrong meaning/translation that's sadly been circulating a lot in western communities. Talking about that, is there any move in Xrd that pushes the enemy in the corner besides Fafnir and Pile Bunker? Only to be sure because on the other hand, Faust is now the only character able to poison the enemy. Millia's Digitalis, CH jD, and her horizontal dust too techincally all push the opponent towards the corner, though not as much as Fafnir does.
stickystaines Posted April 25, 2014 Posted April 25, 2014 Yeah, that's what I was saying too. I think the RC system is really really going to increase abare. Any random hit +50% will mean a near optimal combo. FYI I THINK sol can do 5H gunflame RC 5H bandit -> Whatever. Sounds like damage! For that combo, do you mean start with 5H gunflame (react to hitconfirm) RC continue? I haven't seen that, but if you can, that's crazy. Is there a japanese term then for damage off stray hits? I think it's an important concept that should have a well defined meaning.
youcanwonder Posted April 26, 2014 Posted April 26, 2014 Does or has anyone seen jump installs in xrd? as a side comment/opinion...I would like to see kys follow up flip move after his dp..always liked the way it looked lol...Once again personal opinion. 3rd...thanks bozac and all others for all the updates and information you guys put it since it's coming from you guys 1st hand
Sytha Posted April 26, 2014 Posted April 26, 2014 Yea I saw a Ky JI so he could airdash after RCing VT to continue combo into the corner for ciel knockdown. Other than that I haven't noticed any.
4r5 Posted April 26, 2014 Posted April 26, 2014 I know there IS a specific term for it, poking seems a bit imprecise given how nuanced the term already is. I call it conversion
xlolxlolx Posted April 26, 2014 Posted April 26, 2014 alright let's clear up the whole abare thing 暴れ(abare) in gg strictly refers to mashing, it can be a reversals, jabs, or throws 牽制(kensei) refers to throwing out moves at neutral based on what you think the opponent will do(aka what we know as yomi), and this specifically refers to moves with a combination of fast startup, very strong hitboxes, long active frames, short recovery, and sometmes large rewards on CH that can be converted into damage(ex. Faust's f.S/2HS/rerere, Ky's 6P/f.S/2S/2HS, Sol's Fafnir(Xrd)/GF/sweep, etc),
comoesa Posted April 26, 2014 Posted April 26, 2014 FRC's weren't taken out for beginners. They were taken out to balance the game a bit more. Now characters with better RC's still have to pay the same meter as characters supposedly worse roman cancels.
Casper Posted April 26, 2014 Posted April 26, 2014 well now there are characters with extremely beneficial yrcs. for example chipps teleport... for 25 meter he has something that in my opinion is more powerful than most frcs in +r. there is apparently no getting around some characters getting a better reward for the meter they spend. the old system was obviously flawed but i think this new one has a lot of the baggage of the old system with some extra nonsense on top. im actually not terribly opposed to it and i think the game in general seems cool but i do hope arcsys is willing to experiment liberally with the system in the future. also the speed. watching a +r match after a xrd match is like some fast forward shit. sorry for being so whiny...im done now.
Seku Posted April 26, 2014 Posted April 26, 2014 FRC's weren't taken out for beginners. I'm pretty sure every interview that had a question about the removal of FRCs was answered with "to make it more accessible". So yes, it was taken out for beginners.
Destin Posted April 26, 2014 Posted April 26, 2014 Ok, so based on what every said, I think this game will have much higher damage from combo conversation off stray hits. RC'ing moves should make random faust 5s's turn into full damage combos no?
TITANIUM BEAST!!! Posted April 26, 2014 Posted April 26, 2014 You can see Faust players using 5S(f) RCs to convert pokes into damage in matches, though maybe not as often as you would expect.
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