[Xrd] News & (Theoretical) Gameplay Discussion

[TAI-X]

The Limited Edition better include the complete soundtrack in the highest quality possible.

It won't, because they don't want the Japanese importing it at cheap American prices.

 

Also, unless they put it on SACD (which early PS3 models actually support!) or an SD card with FLAC files, you're not gonna be getting the "highest quality possible."

[werewolfgold]

While we are at soundtrack, I noticed this:

 

http://www.play-asia.com/guilty-gear-xrd-sign--paOS-13-49-en-70-7txr.html

 

• Let’s Rock! - The multi-talented man behind Guilty Gear, Daisuke Ishiwatari, once again arranges and composes the music of Guilty Gear Xrd -SIGN- featuring over 80 heavy rock tracks! 

 

Retailers often can leak some stuff. This may or may not be true, but that would mean that we will have music from previous games maybe

 

Everywhere else (GameStop, Amazon, Newegg, etc.) says 27 tracks. Play-Asia is the only one with the different number...

[Uncivilized Elk]

I'm still butthurt we have yet to see a release date.

[LeDom]

So... I don't think this has been mentioned, but GGXrd is confirmed to have English voiceovers.  I asked two Aksys employees at the Xrd booth at Evo at different times, and both confirmed that there will be dual audio.  They also said that Aksys has no input over handling the VA casting and whatnot, as that side is being handled/directed by Arcsys.  It was interesting that both employees I asked about this didn't show any hesitance in answering my question and were discussing it pretty freely, unlike some other topics that came up.

I would have bought the game either way, but that's nice to hear. I was a bit worried that it wouldn't be the case since all the footage shown at E3 was JPN with subs.

Though I hope Arcsys will do a better job at directing than they did with BBCP.

[D.R.F.]

Not just that, but so many less typos. I have the jp version so I didnt realize it, but there are misspellings everywhere on just a glance

[Narroo]

Not just that, but so many less typos. I have the jp version so I didnt realize it, but there are misspellings everywhere on just a glance

Yeah.  Couldn't they have just run a spell checker?

[sren]

Famitsu concept matches http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVfEUc17C24

[Clousephinat]

As suspected, Koichi didn't like I-No after all and now have switched with Millia again... My heart is crying.

 

Though, I still see quite a few of I-No players in this game compared to the previous ones.

[king of heart]

Even though I-No is really good.

I still think that Ram is the best investment for anyone who wanna drop his main.

[Blade]

I think so long as people are adjusted to ACPlusR and transitioning in to GGXrd there's going to be a lot of players who are falling out of love with their old mains.  Koichi being the least of it.

 

People got on Mike Z's case about the changes and how he felt about it, but he's just like everyone else who is used to Accent Core.

 

For myself, I've played and switched between old and new GG games so often I'm more acclimated to switching between AC and R (I happen to like playing Korean #Reload and GGXPlus a lot).  It just takes time to switch, that's all.

[Clousephinat]

Koichi started playing with I-No in Slash though, being the old version that best resembles her in Xrd, so I don't think that's the problem.

 

When I saw him playing with yellow I-No, I felt like I-No not being able to do good combos in midscreen anymore was something that really annoyed him, and since he was really good at it, I'm sure not 6FRC6 HCL anymore was for him a curse rather than a blessing, and for skilled players like him I understand that, I understand him.

 

I must admit that both HCL and VCL having lost quite range seems really annoying, characters like Ky and Ramlethal can place seals now without fear of "wait! I must be careful or I'll be beaten by HCL...", stagger effect seems even more easy to break than in AC, so STBT has lost it's purpose, and like I said in the Gameplay topic, it doesn't seem rewarding anymore even if it's counted as a counter.

 

And she's the only character with a percentage about 1% of being able to hit a human with Dust (seriously, why ASW have made Dusts to sparkle? Is the only thing I don't like in Xrd so far), unless you do STBT>RRC (although seeing what I've seen, maybe it could be avoided even so), and 5S it's the only thing that remains like it was in #R, which now that 6P>5HS it works almost always, again another tool having lost it's purpose.

[king of heart]

I have seen both Ogawa and Karincho lose to an I-No player.

So i am pretty sure that she is good.

[TheRealBobMan]

Yeah, there's a lot of "stealth" nerfs going on with I-No.

 

 

We can still combo in the corner with Sdive, but it doesn't float on hit at mid screen so we can't really use it as a mixup tool (and remember that while I might have been messing up, I couldn't get combos even when I RC'd Sdive and had the time slow).  Sdive also seems to wallbounce people back out of the corner from time to time depending on spacing, which is really annoying and stupid.

 

I don't think Kdive causes floorslide on CH anymore, so lost some starter potential there too.  Losing dives as starters hurts primarily in the 'bait > punish' department, followed by the mixup department.  Pretty big detriment.

 

STBT-S doesn't seem to lead to anything ever other than a reset opportunity, so it's pretty much a combo tool, though it's not as important to use as before.  You see, you'd do 'whatever > 6P > STBT-S' because STBT-S builds like 9% meter while doing a little more damage than 5H, so you could follow up with 5K > HCL and usually have enough for 6FRC6 to do 35%+ damage and corner push.  Now you'd need 50% for RC, and the damage wont be quite as good because of the RC prorate.

 

Then STBT-H can lead to a combo on CH, but the float is so minor and they get pushed out so far that you're basically only going to get to combo into 5K or 6P, which out of the corner isn't going to lead to big damage (probably only going to get j.S > j.H > Sdive knockdown).

 

HCL's range nerf hurts her punish game.  I also miss the buffed vertical hitbox where her body is (better j.K confirm options), though I feel like it may have been a little too big in +R (didn't need to reach so low that it'll beat GV or Sol's 2D, since that defeats the purpose of VCL as a cold-read kind of poke).

 

I don't know if people like the old/current f.S, but I kinda like the utility of the AC/+R version.  On the one hand, I HATE that you get f.S when you're point blank instead of getting c.S, causing your combo to drop, but when you actually have it as a zoning tool that's +5 on the first active frame (in +R, I think it's even in AC) and active for like 10 frames, it's pretty nice, even with the terrible Forced Prorate (60% in +R, 50% in AC).  Sure, I can use it in combos now, but it's pretty easy to just use 6P > 5H instead so why bother most of the time?  Until I see some frame data and try to figure out a use for it, I feel like it's not helpful.

 

2S nerf hurts her mixup game pretty bad, and it also doesn't have as much range going for it, so that hurts in the punish game just like HCL.  It's way worse for the mixup game though since we can't mixup off of 5K and c.S any more.  Before you could j.K/2K into c.S into TK-Sdive/2S, and off of 2S still had some options on block.  We still have j.D FDC for overheads since the dives wont work, but what's the point off of 5K and c.S if the only low we have is 2D now?  It doesn't have the range to mixup off of max range 5K, and you don't get a follow up off of it either since it's the last move in your chain (and really minus on block too!).  It's also a lot less safe to try since they could IB the c.S or 5K and DP or BS before 2D starts, whereas the gap was much smaller with 2S (9 frame startup vs 12 for 2D, if that hasn't changed).

 

Gotta spend more meter to combo off of a throw.

 

Can't combo off of 0-frame airthrow.  Gotta use the command throw, which if it follows GG convention will be slower than a regular throw.  I feel like this is a fair tradeoff for having good range on instant airthrow since the air command throw is actually really good (can use it out of ground moves that you can't jump cancel, restores jump options, can use during an airdash).

 

 

Maybe nerfing her mixup is ok for a game that's supposed to appeal to new players, but they took too much away in the process.  Losing Sdive as a starter is huge.  Losing HCL range for knockdown at 2/3 screen to get oki hurts.  Hell, even damage is sort of homogenized in this game (everyone does 50% with their first combo, then does like 20% for their next 2-3 combos), which takes away from I-No's hugely variable damage.  It was cool doing only 15% off of a throw with meter, 20% off of a low, getting 35% off of an overhead, and 50% off of whatever the fuck if you spent meter (2S JI'd via HD into HCL 6FRC6 for high damage off of lows, j.S off of highs into HCL loops, Fortissimo for the invul starter, etc).  She can still hit hard off of Fortissimo, but for the most part she always seems to do the same damage, which is around her average damage from before.  I haven't really seen burst damage for kills on their last 40% health, but combos still need to be optimized so whatever.

 

 

On the plus side, while it's never really a good idea to go for Sdive/Kdive overheads, we can YRC into j.K/2K for mixup?  And STBT might suck, but we can YRC into mixup? 

 

 

*edit*  Wanted to point out that I generally think of 5D as a shitty zoning tool rather than a mixup tool.  Gets more mileage that way.  The hitbox is actually pretty big, so if you bait them to stay on the ground with a mid/high note and 5D from like max f.S range, odds are run into it like an idiot or dash break and crouch block out of instinct, which gets them hit.  Just kinda sucks when they then jump at the last second and you get NOTHING for the hit.

[JCraile]

Even though I-No is really good.

I still think that Ram is the best investment for anyone who wanna drop his main.

This makes a lot of sense ever since Attsun Dayo went from I-No, to Bedman, then ended up playing Ramlethal. The reason why I-No's fans were feeling down, is because most of us here haven't seen a super I-No player besides Hasegawa (if you consider him a super I-No player). People also perceived the same thing about Ramlethal being a low tier until Karinchou shows up.

[Jocelot]

This makes a lot of sense ever since Attsun Dayo went from I-No, to Bedman, then ended up playing Ramlethal. The reason why I-No's fans were feeling down, is because most of us here haven't seen a super I-No player besides Hasegawa (if you consider him a super I-No player). People also perceived the same thing about Ramlethal being a low tier until Karinchou shows up.

 

I wonder if  Karincho still the highest level Ram player? I remember you saying it was on a week to week thing for the rankings.

[ElvenShadow]

Karinchou just qualified with a gold ticket for arc Revo today

[Coffeeling]

Was Karinchou the Ram player who gave Ogawa a ton of trouble? Speaking of which, I need more Ogawa footage in my life

[king of heart]

Karinchou just qualified with a gold ticket for arc Revo today

Where did that happen ?

And against who ?

[BladeOfJustice7]

Was Karinchou the Ram player who gave Ogawa a ton of trouble? Speaking of which, I need more Ogawa footage in my life

Yup, to be fair the matchup looks really ass for Zato-1. Like a 7-3 matchup from what I've seen.

[Coffeeling]

Yup, to be fair the matchup looks really ass for Zato-1. Like a 7-3 matchup from what I've seen.

Maybe. Though I think Ogawa is uniquely vulnerable because his style leans so much on little Eddie and Ramlethal is basically pure Eddie murder. Other Zato players seem to use Zato as a basis, Eddie as the support for their neutral game, Ogawa feels like the opposite. Kitajima got much better results after he gave up on trying to keep Eddie alive vs. LOX in those long sets they ran and mostly used him to start pressure or sporadic Nobirus. Helps give you attention resources to navigate the hell that is Ram's space control setup too.

[BladeOfJustice7]

The matchup is basically the equivalent of Ky vs Venom. In other words, as Zato, she does a better job in the matchup at whatever you do, and has an overwhelming control over the neutral game that will just obliterate you. Zato must constantly force her to make decisions and try to get her into situations where she has to block to keep her from gaining any form of katame over him by making him block a sword or something since Zato can neither fly to get in close nor summon Eddie because there's giant swords everywhere either hitting him/Eddie or making him block.

 

You basically have to slowly approach and try to catch her with a drill and if you get her to block, and you're up close, summon Eddie and try to get as much damage as you can if you can get her to open up. You CANNOT summon Eddie unless you have her blocking something or knockdown from at least mid screen, if not closer. Zato has to completely play outside of his comfort zone and how he works as a character, because he has absolutely no neutral game and cannot use most of his tools against her since she is mostly in the air summoning swords that keep him from moving, which then allows her to either completely zone him or capitalize on CH's from sword swings when he's trying to get in on her.

 

So to me it feels like a 7:3 from what I was watching. And if what coffeeing said about Ogawa is true, then he would get obliterated by Karinchu, because Eddie is entirely useless outside of katame against her.

[Coffeeling]

I want to reiterate that it's just a feeling I get from watching different Zato players play. I can't express the reasons in terms of logic, but that's just a feeling that has developed from watching people play.

[JCraile]

I wonder if  Karincho still the highest level Ram player? I remember you saying it was on a week to week thing for the rankings.

Yes, according to GGxrd Japan web, he still the number 1 among Ramlethal players. 

 

 

So to me it feels like a 7:3 from what I was watching. And if what coffeeing said about Ogawa is true, then he would get obliterated by Karinchu, because Eddie is entirely useless outside of katame against her.

If there was an advantage to either character, I personally think it's 6:4. 7:3 is too much I think, this isn't bad compared to Ramlethal versus Potemkin.

 

 

Edited: typo error, it's 6:4 not 6-4 sorry about that.

[D.R.F.]

Eddie having a 6-4 lol well aint this some nonesense

[ElvenShadow]

Where did that happen ?

And against who ?

According to Nakamura on twitter he won in Akihabara over the weekend