Why does the FGC like stupid shit and what can we do about it? (My take on scene growth)

[GF9Returns]

I hate bumping threads like this but this one really caught my attention. Anyway, here's my opinion on this.

Why are some of yall surprised of what today's FGC is like? I mean I like all of MvC, GG, and BB but if the american community doesn't care about GG and BB, then they don't care. You guys knew that most of the Arc System games ain't that popular in the US, so why bother worrying about it. That's why I'm kinda glad Arcs decided to go easy on the newcomers by putting in Stylish Mode, so that they can gain more fans, sales, and give them a taste of how their style is, and when they are ready to take on some challenge trails, then GO FOR IT! I did the same thing when I first played Blazblue. They need to try more harder be more noticeable like Capcom and not be afraid to advertise their games on TV. Now do I wish for other websites to cover news for ASW games, yes I do, but if they don't then who gives a damn? All that matters is what fighting games YOU love to play.

My friends play Call of Duty while I play different types of games. Some of them call Blazblue "stupid and gay" but do you see me bitching about it? No! I'm not trying to be a dick here but some of yall REALLY need to let this shit go, seriously...

[Hecatom]

I love when people come to the threads to say some crap while completely missing the point.

Bravo good sir, bravo.

[GF9Returns]

I love when people come to the threads to say some crap while completely missing the point.

Bravo good sir, bravo.

Okay, so what's with all the ruckus here, cuz from what I'm seeing here is people calling MvC shallow and worrying about most sites not covering ASW games along with "90%" of the people who don't care for them.

Edited August 14, 2013 by GF9Returns

[Kikuichimonji]

The problem, as I see it is that to a certain extent, a larger scene is a better scene. Larger scenes promote more diversity, which helps with matchup knowledge. Larger pots cause people to travel farther to play, which interconnects the scene. More players means more people who go into training mode and figure stuff out, which leads to higher quality of play overall. Not to mention that playing the same small group of people day to day can cause you to stagnate. A larger scene is by no means definitely a better one, but you have more resources to work with. We all have a vested self-interest in promoting our games.

[wirestyle22]

I agree with some of the stuff you said. It would be great to get new people in the community. I myself have brought in around 15 people that are taking the game they play seriously (AE). I think the reason people find marvel to be entertaining to watch is because its flashy, there are teams, tons of stuff is happening on the screen and they don't really NEED to know the depth of the game to enjoy it. However, if you watch Guile vs. Guile in AE....you're really going to need an in-depth understanding of the game to get any enjoyment out of it. So, to a degree, I can understand why new players gravitate to marvel.

One of the responses said something along the lines of GG not being "worth it" to learn because of how daunting it is to learn.

I'll explain my stance on that the same way I explain to new players how to go about picking the character that they want to play: Pick what you enjoy. Tier lists only matter for games like GG and ST that people have torn apart to a crazy degree. The thing is, any tier list is skewed by player skill. T-hawk is crazy is you're good with him in ST. That doesn't mean as a new player you're going to have fun times picking him. It's going to be brutal. However, if you pick someone you really love playing you're going to be willing to go the extra distance.

How does this relate to Guilty Gear? Well, you pick the game you enjoy playing. All you really need is one guy who loves the game as much as you and you guys can have quite a bit of fun. You don't need to be shooting for the stars and planning what you're going to spend your tournament winnings on when you win Evo (Prob $60 for the winner of grand finals lol). All you need to do is have fun. It's up to you to improve. Communities will rise up naturally and will share ideas and information. It's really that simple. Start hosting your own events if its possible with maybe a dozen people. MAKE FRIENDS. Being nice will guarantee that people will at least enjoy hanging out even if they aren't becoming the next ogawa.

This is the real key to changing the community imho

Edited August 14, 2013 by wirestyle22

[Dreiko]

Reading some of the posts in this thread has me baffled. I laugh at people who think Marvel is not anime but I just shake my head when people try to say GG isn't anime either. Do you even know what anime is? Do you think anime is only the 10 popular series that came in the US in the last decade and DBZ? I mean, seriously.

Instead of trying to distance ourselves from the "other anime games" so that ignorant people who like SF and think that doesn't mean they also like anime (when SF4 has Akuma go freaking Super Saiyan 2 in its latest version, electricity included) we should be simply explaining to them what anime actually is and why every Japanese game is VERY anime in a ton of ways. Instead of trying to set ourselves apart and join the ignorant ones, we should be fostering information.

I watched this marvel stream once; Yipes was calling xfactor "kaioken". How? How is marvel perceived non-anime when the guy makes a DBZ reference for its basic mechanic in an ACCEPTED way? How does this make sense? Why is kaioken not-anime but something with the word "kawaii" suddenly makes people call things “weeaboo”, "gay" or whatever they do?

Just break down things in informative ways, explain that hadou in hadouken is the word for aura, which is what that colorful fire around the people of DBZ, Akuma, Evil Ryu, and Oni is, that the "fireballs" are not actually fire at all! Rather, they’re mental energy or “ki”, that the aura of a person around their body is heightened by that energy coursing through their body rapidly, which is what makes chars have spiky hair in many things.

Explain everything in every commonly perceived non-anime game to show just how anime it is. If you make people realize they had been playing and ENJOYING an anime game all along they'd be much more likely to join other anime games too. That's the constructive and positive way to go about this. That’s the proud and unashamed way. People shouldn't try to mask or hide how anime something like GG is. People shouldn't feel ashamed or embarrassed of that facet of the game. They shouldn't try to deny it to blend in with or attract the “popular crowd”. All this closet-anime-fandom which is being propagated here is just annoying.

If you like SF, GG, Marvel 3, any Japanese-made game with 2D art and Japanese-style thematic elements such as the shouting of moves as one performs them or Japanese characters/brush stroke flourishes in moves (such as SF4’s focus attack), you like anime. You may not like anime-aesthetics, that's a valid preference, but anime is a WHOLE LOT more than that and you better start comprehending it more since knowing oneself is important and a good way of achieving that is to know everything there is to be known about the things that you like, as they make up who you actually will end up being.

Edited August 15, 2013 by Dreiko

[Rhiya]

Anime game =/= having anime artstyle, etc. in this context

Anime game = airdashers/games with lots of movement and mixup options, which typically have anime artstyles

[Dreiko]

Anime game =/= having anime artstyle, etc. in this context

Anime game = airdashers/games with lots of movement and mixup options, which typically have anime artstyles

Words mean things.

Anime means anime. When people call games "weaboo-somethings" they don't mean that the game has more than usual mobility options. They mean that they have a certain look that only a certain kind of person would find appealing, they mean it in a derogatory way. However it was established that games with movement options beyond "walk" and "jump" are to be called anime, it's a damaging thing which creates division and everything would be better if it were eclipsed.

In my personal experience, people complain more about things such as cuteness or flashy/colorful things when they complain about "anime games". Basically, think Platinum in BB, that's a compilation of everything people who complained about anime refered to in my experience. The way to solve this is to explain the vastness of thematic expression in the world of anime and that if a game has more of these overly-specific things than another, the other game doesn't magically become not-anime. If you have a drop of red paint and a bucket of red paint, the drop's not any less red cause the bucket has way more red in it than it does. Focus on the similarities rather than the differences. There's a whole plethora of them to pick from.

I was watching this stream and this Maximillian dude who clearly showed an interest in GG replied that "BB is too anime" when asked about playing it. Clearly, BB doesn't have more movement options than GG. He didn't really speak of that interpretaion of "anime game". A lot of people don't I think, so my above point relates to all those people.

If you read the posts here in past pages, one of the elements of making Xrd an anime game was that the trailer was in JP with subtitles. If that's something to signify a game to be an anime game, something about the cutscenes and not the gameplay, you can't really say that people just talk of airdashing. Maybe the super duper serious ones do but the common casual populace just means what the words means normally, they mean anime.

Edited August 15, 2013 by Dreiko

[STenSatsu]

The word Anime, in a fighting game context, simply means "I do not want to play your game but I have never tried it and thus will make up a reason for not trying it."

Anime is not gameplay. Anime is not an art style. Anime is simply an excuse to not try bb/mb/p4/gg/etc and instead get back to playing marvel or whatever.

[Kane]

Hmmm, I rarely post on this forum but I agree with the OP personally. However it's one of those situations that will not resolve itself in this generation of FG's. There have been countless times where I've seen someone state that GG is better than "(insert game here)", and usually will see the '09'ers coming back with the "gtfo GG elitist", or "stfu anime fag - waifu - blahblah" kinda backlash.

After being so amazing in previous generations, in this one I think Capcom (particularly Ono) completely ruined 2D fighting games. It is very clever what they did with SF4, in which they created a game that when picked up by a newbie, it becomes the only game they can play due to the system (shortcuts, links, game speed, simplicity). No-one likes feeling alienated so those who try to pick up another game and have difficulty getting their heads around a system so different to what they're used to, most give up.

However, recently I have been given hope since the current generation is ending, and I have faith that Arc will not completely bollocks up the localisation of GGXrd (with it's new-found simplicity compared to AC) - and it will somewhat restore the popularity of the series in the west with old players while attracting new ones.

On the topic of attitude; if a player is so shallow that they cannot see past the art style of a game or the fandom of it's players, then they do not deserve to reap the benefits of playing said game, and quite frankly should dead.

[SynikaL]

Stensatsu's got it right. IMO, this community would serve itself well to discourage usage of the term "anime-fighter" in describing these games. It's a dismissive red herring in the greater FGC and doesn't do the Arc Sys games justice to be lumped beneath such a nebulous umbrella. The US's hospitality towards anime is not what it used to be.

[Dreiko]

Stensatsu's got it right. IMO, this community would serve itself well to discourage usage of the term "anime-fighter" in describing these games. It's a dismissive red herring in the greater FGC and doesn't do the Arc Sys games justice to be lumped beneath such a nebulous umbrella. The US's hospitality towards anime is not what it used to be.

Right, that was my point as well. I just say "2D fighters" when I speak of what I play. If people ask for specific I give names of games, to just say anime games makes people think of Narutimate Ninja Storm or some DBZ kinect thing. I know this cause I used to play these games before I got into BB, those were "anime fighters". Stuff like GG was just fighters, "anime fighter" is something that's based on an actual anime, or at least, that's what it meant around 2009 or so.

[mAc Chaos]

Hasn't anime become pretty mainstream now. I mean almost everybody knows Dragonball Z. At least in the FG community.

Just call them airdashers. Except people outside the community won't know what airdashing is.

[STenSatsu]

Ya, for in-community descriptions I usually say airdashers (though some 'anime' games don't fall under that). Otherwise just fighting games.

[SynikaL]

Anime's mainstream in the sense that many people know what artstyle the term refers to. In terms of popularity, anime's suffered some negative pushback after its sharp rise in the early 00's - ironically, being most severe among nerd culture, it seems. It's more associated with anime's more perverse aspects nowadays and mainstream just lumps it in with the rest of the soulless american cartoons that have adopted the style, making it less distinguished than it was a decade ago.

[Rhiya]

This is the only place where I've seen anyone mean anything other than what I said by "anime game."

There's a reason people say Marvel is more anime than most anime games.

[Powerstar7]

There's a reason people say Marvel is more anime than most anime games.

...Why is that?

[Chaoschao222]

Incredibly zany powers and excessively bright colors, the entire Capcom side, magic series-style combos, combos that are inherently flashy and last long periods of time, other general airdasher mechanics, and I'm sure the list could go on.

From what I see, Marvel games have everything your typical "anime" game has, but takes it to broken, yet fun extremes. It just tends to avoid an anime stigma because it's A) a Capcom game, and B) half filled with American-style characters and half filled with characters from (generally) loved Capcom games.

[the_d3v]

Marvel avoids the animu stigma simply because it's popular. It started by riding on the coattails of MvC2, which had a scene that was generally separate from the GG/anime community and built from there.

[Solless]

Marvel avoids the animu stigma simply because it's popular. It started by riding on the coattails of MvC2, which had a scene that was generally separate from the GG/anime community and built from there.

Sure it also isn't because of X-Factor's ability to almost, if not completely, swing the match in the user's favor? The sort of chaotic and 'come from behind win' of that I think is also what helps keeps it popularity.

Personally I can't stand the game anymore because it got boring.

[zerosoulreaver]

Marvel avoids the animu stigma simply because it's popular. It started by riding on the coattails of MvC2, which had a scene that was generally separate from the GG/anime community and built from there.

Exactly, I agree with this. People call games "anime" just to be negative, SF is anime too but nobody calls it that because its more widely accepted.

It really has nothing to do with art style or gameplay anymore.

[SuperOast]

Indeed. It's sad that it's not about the gameplay or asthetics. It's about how much of a sheep you are. Just remember that necks are for sheep and we are an army of sharks.

[Vashimus]

Incredibly zany powers and excessively bright colors, the entire Capcom side, magic series-style combos, combos that are inherently flashy and last long periods of time, other general airdasher mechanics, and I'm sure the list could go on.

From what I see, Marvel games have everything your typical "anime" game has, but takes it to broken, yet fun extremes. It just tends to avoid an anime stigma because it's A) a Capcom game, and B) half filled with American-style characters and half filled with characters from (generally) loved Capcom games.

Only makes sense, since Marvel 3 is building upon Tatsunoko vs Capcom's engine, which literally IS an anime fighter.

[GirugaMarc]

Strange....I always thought an anime game was an anime game if it...y'know...looked like an anime. Street fighter is NOT anime, lol.

[Star-Demon]

This thread is kind of going in circles, (I'm really surprised it's not locked by now) but I'd like to ask what you guys think you could DO to help some of the problems listed.

We're shifting blame to others with this "people are sheep" shit. I think before we do that we should take on ourselves.

I hate to say this, because it's obviously going to be received badly, but Triforce is right: FGC doesn't have the worth, the attitude, or the class to sustain itself unless it cleans itself up with E-sports and regional leagues at the organization level. Outside of his very strange conspiratorial accusations, he's right in that, one way or another, FGC can be made money off of, and the real question in front of us is "who do we want to be making that money?".

What *I've* been saying is that there's a choice in front of every member in this community: You can treat the community and competition as a subculture, say it's about having fun, not giving a fuck, etc...or you can treat it as an E-Sport, which is competitive, legitimate, and organized and structured.

In the first case - you don't deserve money. You don't deserve fame, You don't deserve anything but poverty. ChrisG, current top players need to disappear, because they will never get what they ask for, and we should stop paying attention to them. As well, the community will remain uncompetitive, with no real organized apparatus to improve players, instated of hoping good players to somehow descend from Asgard.

In the second case - You can look at this community as a prospective E-Sport. It's competitive, but not organized, and players that want to make money need to improve their attitudes and behavior in order to secure sponsorships and conduct themselves sportsman-like so the game and scene is seen as legitimate. It's bigger than them. If the community organizes it can improve the competitive structure and actually start building a real apparatus to improve players and build anyone willing to sign up and commit into recognizable competitors.

In BOTH cases, a lot of people need to improve how they represent themselves and the scene and the game. (In either case, the ChrisGs out there need to go - if we REALLY wanted, we can manufacture top players). We won't have any self-respect if we let any players, let alone top players, to be actively mocking the competitions or games. We won't be able to create any good prizes, put any butts in seats, or even take on the largest problem in our community - POVERTY, which lends itself to all the other problems involved in getting people offline (America is big, Japan and Korea are small) and managing even a regional competitive community.

So, wrapping this up - My only answers are as I posted before. Everyone at least have to have a serious pro-mode when called upon.