Why does the FGC like stupid shit and what can we do about it? (My take on scene growth)

[Luminos564]

I think the problem is more people's thinking "anime=bad," despite people having had positive reactions to things that are undoubtedly anime.

I think it's a case of "well as long as I am not X my Y actions will be seen more positively". Anime fans (as in people that enjoyed the style of Japanese animation and media) were often the subject of public scrutiny. The often tossed around "otaku" and "weeaboo" come to mind. So now think what would happen if a gamer, who is already under scrutiny from various sources, is seen enjoying a game like BlazBlue which looks like (and is currently being made into) a Japanese animated series? They're probably thinking they'd be seen as all the worse for it. You could say that them claiming they hate 2D anime-esque fighters as a defense mechanism, though that's just my take on the matter.

[Dreiko]

I'm not saying "if you like x over y, then you a retard", like what you wanna like. I'm just basically asking WHY are you guys so shocked about why the "scene" is that way it is now. I mean GG and BB take a hell of a lot more time to learn some characters than MvC, so there, going with the one that's easy. Now as for the anime part, yes, I know DBZ is an anime but I...JUST don't look at it that way, dunno why, but I just don't since it was one of the shows that made my childhood golden, so I just call it "a cartoon that changed my life". DBZ and other anime like Yu Yu Hakusho, Ruroni Kenshin, etc. get well respected cuz they got spark and no cutsey "kuwaaiiiii" crap as other animes like Naruto, One Piece(once in a while), Bleach, etc. don't much (though One Piece is well respected too). Though like I said again, I don't judge what people like, all I'm trying to do is stating my vision as of seeing why I THINK people respect "real deal" anime and "real deal" fighting games that have the "anime" style.

And I once tried to tell "them" that SF is like anime too, but it's useless, they just wanna call it a non-anime style game, so I gave up.

Why does DBZ, Kenshing, etc. being anime somehow detract something? This is the core issue here. What you're saying makes it sound like "liking things that happen to be anime" is somehow lesser than merely liking cartoons. That the notion of "liking anime" has inherent negatives to it.

Why can't it...be both? Why can't anime be some of the media which shaped/changed your life and made your childhood awesome and stuff? Why does it have to only be non-anime things which did that?

In my eyes you're hurting the things you say you like by denying their true identity and choosing to interpret them in a way which is the fake one that the people who wanted to make the most money as possible tried to implant into the minds of dub-audiences in the US. If you proclaim to love these series so, I feel you should have some responsibility to them and you should at the very least contemplate them appropriately.

The cutesy element is just a genre of anime. I'm sure you don't like all genres of movies. I'm sure you don't watch romantic comedies or foreign political dramas or w/e. You can be free to dislike a segment of a medium without applying it to the entire medium. There's tons of anime without the "kawaii" style of girls and focus on happy go lucky slice of life stories. Your implication is that all anime is just one thing and that's just wrong.

[SuperOast]

In my experience people don't understand that anime has such variety because they see pokemon, Yugioh, ect as a kid and then later on, they base all anime related stuff around the kind of shows they were watching as kids. So because of some anime's that they have seen as a child, they see BB/GG whatever and automatically register it as childish.

[GF9Returns]

Why does DBZ, Kenshing, etc. being anime somehow detract something? This is the core issue here. What you're saying makes it sound like "liking things that happen to be anime" is somehow lesser than merely liking cartoons. That the notion of "liking anime" has inherent negatives to it.

Dunno. Ask "them". I just saying what I think people dislike the "kuwaii" stuff, that's all.

Why can't it...be both? Why can't anime be some of the media which shaped/changed your life and made your childhood awesome and stuff? Why does it have to only be non-anime things which did that?

You're right about that. Most of the anime on Toonami back then made my childhood golden, and I thank them for that, but like I said again, I don't like "kuwaii style" shit. Gets really annoying.

In my eyes you're hurting the things you say you like by denying their true identity and choosing to interpret them in a way which is the fake one that the people who wanted to make the most money as possible tried to implant into the minds of dub-audiences in the US. If you proclaim to love these series so, I feel you should have some responsibility to them and you should at the very least contemplate them appropriately.

The hell. I said I knew that the anime I liked were anime, I just don't look at it that way and it's not a hard way too, I just don't. As a matter in fact, I know some people who don't even like anime of all kinds that said "a few anime that aired on Toonami" they can stand.

The cutesy element is just a genre of anime. I'm sure you don't like all genres of movies. I'm sure you don't watch romantic comedies or foreign political dramas or w/e. You can be free to dislike a segment of a medium without applying it to the entire medium. There's tons of anime without the "kawaii" style of girls and focus on happy go lucky slice of life stories. Your implication is that all anime is just one thing and that's just wrong.

Didn't you see what I've said on my last post? I know that already, I'm just stating that people actually think that's what 80% of the anime is like. Do I agree with them, no, but do I see why a majority doesn't like that cutsey "kuwaii" crap some anime have, yes. I feel like there is nothing we can do about it, just let it be. Sure blindly thinking that Guilty gear or Blazblue is a bunch of weaboo kuwaii shit is wrong, but what can we do? Your rant, my rant, and everybody else's rant about them won't change a thing. Just say "fuck them" and enjoy our games. As I said again, I'm just trying to say why I think people hate anime in general.

Like for example, I listen to some J-Rock like Hironobu Kageyama and Faylan, and some people would be going like "WTF is this" or "This is sooo gay" and then they tell me to listen to Meek Mills, who SUCKS! But hey, I didn't give a damn after that.

Edited August 16, 2013 by GF9Returns

[Rhiya]

What bothers me is when people see something they don't like and think "I don't like any of this medium or genre," as opposed to, "I guess I just don't like this title/show/game/work." What these people are doing is like shrugging off Western animation entirely after seeing one bad Disney knockoff on Netflix. It's gross overgeneralizing, shoving things in larger boxes and categories than they actually fit into just for the sake of making things easy. There are plenty of bad anime, and plenty of anime someone will find unappealing, just as there are plenty of awful books, or plenty of TV shows someone might find unappealing.

I don't like it when people refuse to look at things they might enjoy for poor reasons, and this kind of overgeneralizing is one of the poorest.

[werewolfgold]

Dunno. Ask "them". I just saying what I think people dislike the "kuwaii" stuff, that's all.

There's no 'u' in 'kawaii'. *runs away*

*comes back*

Anyway, I think there's this kind of 'you whippersnapper' style of old-school versus new school stuff in the anime realm. I think people are far more exposed to basically everything that comes out of Japan now because of internet. When before, everyone was only exposed to the select stuff that companies managed to bring over. Unfortunately, that means that people are exposed to a lot more trope-y, formulaic, shovelware and that kind of ruins it for everybody.

But, if the name of the game is growing the community, then throwing up the middle finger at people that have stupid-ass misconceptions can only go so far. But, I suppose that if people don't like certain character designs (e.g. Platinum), then there's not a lot you can do about that. I kind of stopped playing SF4 because I didn't like the way the combat flowed, but I didn't really care for the artstyle either.

[xAxLegitxLegend]

If I may interject...when I first got into fighting games (several years ago, maybe like 2005) I did not even know there was a fighting game tournament scene. The most ever tournaments I even knew about games were MLG because of Halo and those at Pokemon World in NYC lol...but when I started hearing about fighting game tournaments in like 2008, I was referred to SRK..but I did not really get interested about it till after Blazblue CT came out. The fighting games I played tho were Soul Calibur IV, DOA 4 and Blazblue CT...none of which were priority of SRK...and then finally I posted in that section and got showed about this forum here. I was into Marvel but I could never put as much interest into the story. As a scrub, I honestly only liked Blazblue series because I like to watch anime, and the story of Blazblue is so damn good, and there's so much replayability through SP...even tho I played MP too and some helpful good players helped me boost achievements ^___^.

I digress, however, as someone who doesnt necessarily play Blazblue of Persona to get into the tournament scene, I think a lot of people play those games because they love the story, or they like the design of the characters. Not a lot of people play these games to go out to tournaments, and the online for these games are flawless. I can literally play WC people from EC and have like no lag because of the netcode. I'm not saying that's a major reason, but there are a lot of reasons why the tournament scene is not that great. I feel like Ark System Works focuses the competitive scene mostly in Asia, especially since in Japan they can do Arcade Location tests where top asian players get that tournament vibe from the jump...while it's not the case in North America, where the scene is either locals, purely online or just play the game because competitiveness aside, these games are STILL good (unlike some other games that don't have character development through story progression or focus on the SP through many modes).

Also for most people who go from BB or P4A to GG, there's a lot of vast change, GG is a lot harder for people to get into. IT's sorta like going from LoL to DOTA 2...it just turns you off at first, if that makes sense.

Edited August 17, 2013 by xAxLegitxLegend

[STenSatsu]

I will say this, while GG has a lot of behind-the-scenes nuances, you really don't need many of them to not go 0-2 at a tourney or have fun fighting other players. Esoteric things like 1 frame jumps, ID, and slashbacks aren't that big a priority. Just learn some BNBs, your most used FRCs, and focus on the things that make you do well in every fighting game ever. P4A and BB are definitely enough of a primer to get into GG.

Don't let the "omg GG is soooo hard" bs fool you. =D

[Blade]

As someone who took Art History, I hate to tell you guys this, but Osamu Tezuka was inspired by Walt Disney.

Anything American is inspired by Japan, and anything Japanese is inspired by America. Just get over it. It's art.

Also the only reason American stuff is called "Cartoons" is because of Drive-In Movies where you could listen to "Merry Melodies" in your Car back in the 1930s-50s during Intermissions between movies. Car TUNES, get it?

Anime is just Japanese for Animation.

There, I just de-mystified everything for you.

Edited August 17, 2013 by Blade

[xAxLegitxLegend]

As someone who took Art History, I hate to tell you guys this, but Osamu Tezuka was inspired by Walt Disney.

Anything American is inspired by Japan, and anything Japanese is inspired by America. Just get over it. It's art.

Also the only reason American stuff is called "Cartoons" is because of Drive-In Movies where you could listen to "Merry Melodies" in your Car back in the 1930s-50s during Intermissions between movies. Car TUNES, get it?

Anime is just Japanese for Animation.

There, I just de-mystified everything for you.

On wikipedia it says it too, so it must be true ^_^...odly enough also Stanley Kubrick inspired him. Mind blowing info.

[Blade]

Yeah actually I read that in an old text book on animation, not Wiki (also Disney was inspired by some French artists who came up with the idea of animation or animated-motion). As for the "Kubrick Stare" Akira Toriyama essentially mastered that.

Back on topic: anyone who calls fighting games "animu" is just too scared to try new things.

[Ultima]

Since someone already dredged up this thread, I don't feel bad for posting in it. Nevermind that Suzaku already won the thread at post #145. There are some things I wanted to address:

re: anime fighter

It is very true that Street Fighter series (and most JPN fighters) are essentially "anime fighters". And as has been pointed out, this is not actually a problem. The reason they're not seen as "anime fighters" using the modern definition of the term (more on that later) is because of which anime the older games are based on. SF2 is mashup of Jojo's BIzarre Adventure and Hokuto no Ken ripoffs - i.e. it's an 80s/early 90s "anime game", for lack of a better term. It's not so much about how the games play, but the character design. These games - or to be more specific, these character designs - are more acceptable to western tastes.

Modern "anime fighters", though, borrow their designs from more modern anime, which simply doesn't generally appeal to western tastes like their 80s and 90s predecessors. Hence why their get their bad rap for being only for weeabos - since it's considered that most modern anime is only like by weeaboos, then fighting games that use similar designs as modern anime will also likely only appeal to weeaboos.

Note that I'm not saying whether this association is fair. Just that the associate exists

The fact that many of them use the same gameplay mechanics (read: "airdashers") is not a relevant IMO. After all, from a mechanic stand point, Marvel games are also "anime fighters", but they get a pass because they have Hulk and Sentinel and Magneto fucking things up instead of kawaii moe little girls. See also: The difference between "comics" and "manga", LOL.

Interestingly, I think GUilty Gear, at least at one point, did not really get classified as "anime fighter", at least not in the pejorative sense. I think that's because GG is considered the prototype anime fighter (which actually isn't true - Dark Stalkers is the first real "anime fighter") and is as much a parody of anime as it portrays it. It's also fucking metal. I suppose it's more guilt by association since all the "anime fighters" that came out after GG seemed to ripoff GG much more than any other game/series, which is unfortunate.

I myself, an OG Street Fighter fan fundamentally, love GG (but only from XX onwards - I played GG and GGX and didn't like either one; XX was the first one that clicked with me) but generally can't stand any other "anime fighter". I don't particularly like BB (except for Hakumen), I don't care enough about Persona to get into a fighting game with those characters, and I seriously dislike Arcana Heart and Melty Blood. Mostly it's a character design thing, though I also find them to be boring and repetitive.

Oh, and if there's one thing I HATE about "anime fighters", and what truly separates them from GG for me, is the fact that, too often, the characters won't shut up. They're always saying something, and the endless chatter annoys the fuck out of me. Before BB came out, I really wanted to play with Bang, but all it took was one Youtube vid of him in action for me to go "Nope, I'm not playing this". Fucker just wouldn't shut up. Persona 4 is the same way. It's aurally offensive to me.

re: First post

It hasn't been mentioned in this thread as far as I can tell, so I'd just like to point something out: The "dilemma" pointed out in the first post is not new.

For lack of a better term, the majority of people have always enjoyed fighting games "for the wrong reasons". It may not have been quite the same "wrong reasons" as mentioned here - i.e. more people interesting in watching streams of games than playing them - but the phenomenon of players only playing and enjoying a game at a superficial level and not bothering to go further? Yeah, that's been there since Day 1 of fighters.

Think about it. Back in the early days of SF2, how many players really cared about competition? Very few. Very few players - usually but not always the best players in a particular spot - would actively go searching for more/better competition elsewhere. How many players do you think used to visit arcades in a different part of town, or in a different town, or a different state, or *gasp* a different country? Only the most hardcore of players did this. Hell, after SF2 dropped for SNES, how many still actively went to the arcades? SUre, many used the console port as practice for the arcade, but even at the height of Sf2's popularity and arcades still being relevant, I'm pretty sure they were in the minority. And even if they weren't, the number of players that went past their regular spots was still tiny compared to the player base at large.

It is no different now. It's just more pronounced because, for the first time, we have a class of people who apparently would rather watch fighters than play them, in addition to a large pool of people who play the games at a casual/superficial level. There is nothing wrong with this. In fact, it's a good thing! It means that interest in fighting games is growing, which is good news for fans of fighting games. More people interested in the games will naturally lead to more people playing, which in term will lead to more people playing "seriously" and enjoying the game "for the right reasons".

In that regard, I don't think there's much you can do to a) help people who are not interested in your game at all become interested, or b) help people who are only casually interested to become more serious. The latter is who will benefit from tutorials, videos, etc., but in my experience, most of the players who seek out such information are the type who would do so even without help. This isn't to say that things should not be done - on the contrary, I believe the more help and information given to beginners, the better (and really, it needs to be in-game first and foremost - do I need to bring up Virtua Fighter 4: Evo's training mode or is that a meme now?) - but one has to realise that that's no guarantee your game's scene will automatically blow up.

Actually, I think the best opportunity to grow a scene is to have a proper new game to rally around. It can't be an update of an old game, it has to be something new (even if it recycles/borrows old stuff - see also: SFIV). That new game can't just be crapped out by the developers though - aside from being good (which always helpe), it needs sufficient hype and mainstream advertising. Namco and Midway/Netherrealms have always excelled in these areas. Capcom can excel when they put their mind to it, which actually isn't often. SNK and ARC (outside of Japan?) seemingly don't bother. But luck and timing are also a factor, especially now that the fighting scene is hella crowded.

I think the first good fighting game on next gen systems will have a huge advantage, but I could be wrong.

Finally:

After being so amazing in previous generations, in this one I think Capcom (particularly Ono) completely ruined 2D fighting games. It is very clever what they did with SF4, in which they created a game that when picked up by a newbie, it becomes the only game they can play due to the system (shortcuts, links, game speed, simplicity). No-one likes feeling alienated so those who try to pick up another game and have difficulty getting their heads around a system so different to what they're used to, most give up.

This is complete and utter horseshit.

I would go at length into why it's horseshit, but this post is already really long and it's late here. Will post later if anyone cares (which I doubt).

Edited August 18, 2013 by Ultima

[Tong]

Will post later if anyone cares (which I doubt).

I do care.

[reaVer]

If there's anything that points out what's wrong with this community and this board in particular; it's this thread.

You have a nice opener saying that SF and MvC players are complete retards and that they should play GG instead. Now that is something that really will entice people to mingle on these forums! It gets even more fun: the general question in this thread has become "How can we get SF and MvC players to stop being retarded and play GG instead?". Someone within the first 5 posts even points out that the opener is elitist and the op simply doesn't even see it that way and doesn't even bother retracting his initial statement. Instead, the thread goes on and on shifting blame from the players to the game to the spectators and to everyone else that isn't the root cause of the sorry state of this community.

The problem, is you. Pretty much all of you. You disrespect potential players, you consider anyone you don't know weaker and less knowledgeable than you. You as a result of that disrespect anyone that doesn't agree with your views and you use moderation to enforce what is commonly known as the status quo. Because this is what these forums really are: a status quo. "We are the best and you suck, so stfu". When questions are asked, inadequate answer is given, when answers are unknown, noone bothers to do any sort of research or theory fighting to get something that can aid the people that are having issues. People here, aside from a handful, haven't posted anything constructive for the past 4 years and some of that group have only posted something controversial at best.

This goes hand in hand with a few cases where some players(including me) recommended some simplifications in Xrd and players here said "I want players to practice long and hard to do what I do" and this is just execution! With statements like that you're not just being an elitist douchebag, you're essentially stating that you want to have an advantage over others because your own mindgames are lacking and are afraid of being outplayed by your opponent.

It is astounding how you seem oblivious to your own behavior and how your behavior reflects on others. Just because you do it as a group, you think it is right. The result however is that a forum that should be alive and kicking, because GG is a good game and is still being played in some parts of the world where people actually do care about playing rather than looking good on the forums, is now almost dead. Now we have several half assed community revival attempts which at the same time shuts down anyone trying to get in or start a discussion.

And you can hate me all you like, but the reality is that I have one guy to practice against at best and can still outperform you. These guys that are my supposed victims can stay that way for months, in some cases even years without quitting. Why? Because I don't behave like a fucking elitist douche. In light of what I just said, I also recommend for this thread to be closed. First work on yourselves, then you can look on how you start to advertise GG to other players/people.

[entnervt]

It was half-interesting 'till "(...)outperform you(...)".

Aren't especially you known for misbehaviour?

[reaVer]

It was half-interesting 'till "(...)outperform you(...)".

Aren't especially you known for misbehaviour?

Aren't you known for not showing up at your own local tournaments? You know... support the scene you are in? You germans are like the french in ww2.

[Ronove]

reaVer I honestly don't know where you see an elitist behaviour here. A few months ago I got interested in learning GG after getting tired of BB and when I asked for advices I got useful tips and replies in return, without any hint of elitism. It may not be as active as it used to be years ago but honestly there's no way I could ever say that people here do not provide help or insight if anyone needs it.

[entnervt]

@reaver: But what kind of support are you bringing to europe? I've never heard about you being the saviour of our community. Or any big events in netherland including GG/BB. Afaik you've been banned from the last german event.

Edited October 11, 2013 by entnervt

[reaVer]

reaVer I honestly don't know where you see an elitist behaviour here. A few months ago I got interested in learning GG after getting tired of BB and when I asked for advices I got useful tips and replies in return, without any hint of elitism. It may not be as active as it used to be years ago but honestly there's no way I could ever say that people here do not provide help or insight if anyone needs it.

Try going against given advice. You will hit the jackpot.

[reaVer]

@reaver: But what kind of support are you bringing to europe? I've never heard about you being the saviour of our community. Or any big events in netherland including GG/BB. Afaik you've been banned from the last german event.

My support has been the presence in the european community. Just a simple thing as showing up for tournaments can be a major impact. People in the Netherlands don't take much liking to the game no matter how well I advertise it really. So quite frankly, I've just given up as far as the local scene is concerned.

And yes, I knew you were bringing up the ban, hence I responded with the subtle hint. Essentially, I have been banned from a tournament that never took place. To be more precise: I've been banned from a tournament I was planning to show up for in support of a beginning dutch player. I also saw the list of attendees that didn't bother to show up that apparently had issue with my presence at a tournament that never happened. Apparently all of you guys know me, know me in person and consider me some kind of demon that shows up with the sole purpose of raining on your parade.

I suppose this is on topic, but I wasn't really planning on bringing that up here. I know the real reason I'm not welcome there and it has nothing to do with my behavior on this forum.

[Ronove]

Try going against given advice. You will hit the jackpot.

Why should I go against a given advice if I am learning the game and looking for different point of views? What's the point in asking for an opinion if I am going against it?

[qwerty]

The problem, is you. Pretty much all of you. You disrespect potential players, you consider anyone you don't know weaker and less knowledgeable than you. You as a result of that disrespect anyone that doesn't agree with your views and you use moderation to enforce what is commonly known as the status quo. Because this is what these forums really are: a status quo. "We are the best and you suck, so stfu". When questions are asked, inadequate answer is given, when answers are unknown, noone bothers to do any sort of research or theory fighting to get something that can aid the people that are having issues. People here, aside from a handful, haven't posted anything constructive for the past 4 years and some of that group have only posted something controversial at best.

Look past his demeanor, and you'll find this to be true.

However, it hasn't been as bad in recent times as it has been in the past. 2008-2010 were some seriously dark times for this forum, largely due to what reaVer said above.

As I see it, there has been a slight shift. Maybe it's been a gradual change of the old guard thanks to BB and P4U, but the general attitude towards new players has improved from when I first started playing. There's not nearly as much of a leech gang mentality in local scenes anymore, and people are more willing to help, it seems.

Are we just getting old and pacifistic? Perhaps, but I see it in the newer players, too.

When I went to NEC last year, I was actually impressed at the overall level of US Guilty Gear. There's really no comparison to how it was back in 08; people are actually improving at a steady rate, which leads to stronger competition overall.

Some people like the crucible, either because they truly believe it produces better players (which isn't true) or simply because they're assholes. For the rest of us, all we can do is contribute in any way we can.

[y a s h a]

Here an idea: Have a game that codes for the detection of strategies (in an open source type way, so that the game recognizes when you do okizeme or mixups or something), and reward players for doing so. The game needs to recognize the standard mixups for each character obviously, and possibly be open to allowing good players to add "mixups" to a database (but these will obviously need to be reviewed, etc). Within the game there should also be access to frame data. There needs to be demonstrations of all moves ala tekken, demonstrations of mixups, etc.

1) Every character in this imaginary FG has three modes, similar to samurai shodown 4. Simplified, Intermediate, and Expert. Simplified has limited moves and limited flashiness. One super is accessible and easy to pull off. Intermediate is how we normally play, though somewhat simplified. Moves look cooler visually as well, better frame advantage on things, tweaks, air-dashes, more moves to execute, etc. Expert is another step again, more frame advantage, flashier/more moves, more supers, extra defensive systems, whatever. Doesn't even have to be Beginner/Intermediate/Expert but could even be like general modifications to gameplay like Half/Crescent/Full (but they need to have some sort of element that is geared towards skill levels). The game always should reward those who put in work, but should still allow those who don't to compete. The game should also implement a way for people who are good at execution to still need practice the same way GG does with FRC timings. The ceiling should be high.

Beginner mode should be designed to bonus players for executing advanced strategies that the game will detect. Example: empty jump throw, IAD high low, not mashing, just defend, parry, whatever. New players NEED reinforcement as well as information. After every match there is a highlights reel that shows those advanced strategies you employed. It would also show cool combos you did as well or something. It would involve a pretty robust algorithm but it would be worth it.

2) Trials/Challenges that revolve around not only combos, but mixups. Some games already do this but, have a trial where you have to cross up / deal with a parry / guard cancel and combo or something. Darkstalkers Revolution did this and it was a great way to pick up characters I never knew before. Even though the game failed commercially, that system should definitely be implemented again.

3) A 1P mode where proper execution of said mixups is rewarded with unlockables that enhance gameplay. Don't reward players for simply beating the CPU. Reward players for successfully executing tactics, even if they lose. Winning is an additional reward. A system of rewards that allows the player to enhance his gameplay is crucial to keeping interest in a game. If a player has used a significant amount of strategy in "Beginner Mode," let the game tell him he should move to intermediate, or even unlock the mode for him at that point along with fight money, customizables, etc. RPG elements need to be in there.

re: accessible information

This is a huge problem. Obviously some games are better, but I still find myself having to go on the internet and looking at videos. We need a way to promote learning and keep attention and accessibility. Interactive tutorial videos. Quizzes or something, idk. Players need to be rewarded for absorbing information and even more for implementing it, until they get to a point where it becomes of interest and natural to them to do so. The important part is getting over the first hurdle, which is where most people lose interest.

Games should have apps that come with them that players can download to look at combo lists while playing (similar to the Wii U interface). In game character tutorials ala darkstalkers, and an accessible IN GAME database of information (that doesn't get too congested). Allowing voice chat and ONLINE TRAINING MODE between two people, with optional spectating. Players should be rewarded for training, spectating training, using voice chat and helping players, etc. A Mentorship system, where if you teach somoene online and their online record gets better, or they start using more mixups/okizeme that the game detects, you also get rewards. The FGC attitude has bettered in terms of helping new players. I made by Guilty debut at a tournament in NYC and the dude was telling me how to stop his mixups after we played. We need this kind of mentality all the time. Encouragement, information, reward.

Edited October 11, 2013 by y a s h a

[Star-Demon]

If there's anything that points out what's wrong with this community and this board in particular; it's this thread.

You have a nice opener saying that SF and MvC players are complete retards and that they should play GG instead. Now that is something that really will entice people to mingle on these forums! It gets even more fun: the general question in this thread has become "How can we get SF and MvC players to stop being retarded and play GG instead?". Someone within the first 5 posts even points out that the opener is elitist and the op simply doesn't even see it that way and doesn't even bother retracting his initial statement. Instead, the thread goes on and on shifting blame from the players to the game to the spectators and to everyone else that isn't the root cause of the sorry state of this community.

The problem, is you. Pretty much all of you. You disrespect potential players, you consider anyone you don't know weaker and less knowledgeable than you. You as a result of that disrespect anyone that doesn't agree with your views and you use moderation to enforce what is commonly known as the status quo. Because this is what these forums really are: a status quo. "We are the best and you suck, so stfu". When questions are asked, inadequate answer is given, when answers are unknown, noone bothers to do any sort of research or theory fighting to get something that can aid the people that are having issues. People here, aside from a handful, haven't posted anything constructive for the past 4 years and some of that group have only posted something controversial at best.

This goes hand in hand with a few cases where some players(including me) recommended some simplifications in Xrd and players here said "I want players to practice long and hard to do what I do" and this is just execution! With statements like that you're not just being an elitist douchebag, you're essentially stating that you want to have an advantage over others because your own mindgames are lacking and are afraid of being outplayed by your opponent.

It is astounding how you seem oblivious to your own behavior and how your behavior reflects on others. Just because you do it as a group, you think it is right. The result however is that a forum that should be alive and kicking, because GG is a good game and is still being played in some parts of the world where people actually do care about playing rather than looking good on the forums, is now almost dead. Now we have several half assed community revival attempts which at the same time shuts down anyone trying to get in or start a discussion.

And you can hate me all you like, but the reality is that I have one guy to practice against at best and can still outperform you. These guys that are my supposed victims can stay that way for months, in some cases even years without quitting. Why? Because I don't behave like a fucking elitist douche. In light of what I just said, I also recommend for this thread to be closed. First work on yourselves, then you can look on how you start to advertise GG to other players/people.

I do not usually do this but:

Quoted the WHOLE POST for Truth. Post of the year! Close this thread or open one where people can talk about what they can change about themselves to improve the community.

reaVer I honestly don't know where you see an elitist behaviour here . . . It may not be as active as it used to be years ago but honestly there's no way I could ever say that people here do not provide help or insight if anyone needs it.

1. Your anecdote doesn't mean much as an example.

2. All you have to do is read the words that people post. That's all you *can* do on a forum and the second part of your post applies as long as you get help on other people's terms. Sure, they've been burnt in the past so they act like that, but now the behavior is burning others - that's where you draw the line. That's where you can't say nothing's wrong.

I cannot believe how many times I've heard people say there's nothing wrong - a sure sign of a closed-off attitude, in my opinion. That's your elitism, right there. This is frustrating to watch happen over and over to gaming communities. They always think there's nothing wrong!

3. Hilarious that some people won't be able to step up to Reaver's words without attacking him personally. What a absolutely hilarious refusal to confront a problem. Sure! There's nothing wrong! Nothing to be changed or improved upon or reflected on around here! Nope! Nothing at all! Anime FGC is perfect!

I'm gonna spare you the spoilered part of what I just wrote and stick to this:

It feels like shit when you're fighting against the mainstream, doesn't it? I know that feel.

Reaver is right. What it boils down to is a status quo that's been collectively built up over a long time, and it looks like a waste of time to anyone that wants to touch an anime game. The collective behavior is adding up to a status quo that just sucks. They are wiser to avoid it, even if it actually hurts their Game and they don't improve!

This thread has gone on for IDK how many pages of people refusing to look at themselves, man up, and say "You know what? I'm not repping in a way that gets people different from me in and gets them to stay, I'm gonna treat someone I know better."

I'm no fucking saint, though. I'm no FGC hero. I clearly don't treat as many people in the community as well as I should, but I'm working on it, even if there are times all I want to do is forget about everyone and accept being a bad guy just to keep things critical, if not flat out forget trying to make any friends or mend any fences at all. I'm willing to do work for it. When I find I treat someone badly, I fix it if I can. That's why I am trying to find better ways of handling new players. The old ones - I don't fucking know, man.

I can't change your behavior by myself. You don't respect me, you don't think I'm even part of the community, and some of you are committed to removing me or forcing me to leave the FGC. Whatever. I'm sticking around to try to help and use my skills. Listen to people saying the same things I am. The collective behavior adds up to something - and it sucks.

Me? I'm trying to do my own thing to help people play my games and maybe play them well.

If it means I have to bring people into the game and community that you think suck or "don't belong here" or "have no place here", well, no one fucking asked you, and no one needs to ask for your goddamned permission to join or participate in the frigging Anime FGC. The only thing that truly matters is expanding the game and community. If you think that's wrong - feel free to turn the Anime FGC into a Gated Community with a Homeowner's Association.

Just to make sure my post isn't deleted because someone doesn't like it: I'm going to once again offer incredibly good tips for improving the situation, even if you think it's currently perfect:

1. Act like you are the ONLY person that plays your game and you NEED to get others to play. Act like your game really is shit and you want to make it better.

2. STOP BEING AN ASSHOLE TO OTHER GAMES!

3. Treat everything and everyone with fairness, sympathy and respect. Characters, Games, people, opinions; Give them all time to work out and discuss things without bad or vague generalizations. They hurt our game.

4. Teach everyone how to beat YOU - be open and forthcoming about your own weaknesses. You must WANT others to beat you!

5. CARE about them getting better and want them to succeed. People are not Input->Process->output. People are very difficult investments - but you don't have a choice but to care if you want a community to survive, let alone succeed.

[Venussail91]

*gives cookies to reaVer and Star-Demon* You guys really did cover all the points of the real root(s) of the problem in the FGC with intelligence and maturity.