Wonderswan Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) I'm one of those people who has played in Japan, and knows there are a LOT of not so great players over there. Duh, better conditions, including having a lot more people playing the game, will produce the best players. But we have very good players over here too. Or did you not see P4U at Evo. Yeah, there's a difference. but I disagree with the way it is presented. Whether you or I have been to Japan (I have, on multiple occasions, though not during BB admittedly) is completely irrelevant to whatever you were trying to say. Simple mathematics already tell us 'DERR larger pool = increase in the number of bad players as well as good'. So congratulations. You've been to Japan to tell us first hand what nobody was pondering. I also wouldn't run to P4U as an example of anything... please, just don't. One major, in a shitty game, with only a few of Japan's talents entered, doesn't mean jack shit. If we could go back in time and throw a few more JP players into the bracket LK and BananaKen wouldn't have made top 8. Also, this game wasn't played anywhere close to it's peak. It was all but dead till prize money gave it a crutch to limp around one more time. Absolutely no disrespect to LK or Bananaken btw. I honestly think BananaKen is a genius with fighting games in general, and kudos to both of them. While individuals can win matches, I think it would be overwhelmingly clear in a team game. 5v5 Japan vs Anybody else, I'm pretty sure Japan would take 100% of the wins, 100% of the time, no matter how many times we ran it back. Gauntlet style would also work. Anything that gets the sample bigger will just continue to show how much bigger the gap is. To reiterate for you; No amount of hard work with no resources will ever compare to hard work with an abundance of resources. Also to restate my original point. Since nobody is on Japan's level, we don't need to concern ourselves with their tiers, much less talk about them like mid/low tiers can't win majors in the US. Everybody knows Ragna is god tier in America. Now can we relax and enjoy some shitty Comcast netplay? Peace and love. Edited January 17, 2014 by Wonderswan
ReynTime180 Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 While I do think that the Japanese are usually better players, I wouldn't go so far as to say that no one in America is as good as them. They have good and bad players, just like us, and there are some places in the US and Canada that have offline scenes where you can go to improve as a player
Wonderswan Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 While I do think that the Japanese are usually better players, I wouldn't go so far as to say that no one in America is as good as them. They have good and bad players, just like us, and there are some places in the US and Canada that have offline scenes where you can go to improve as a player Let's make it really simple then. Everywhere has local heroes. Everywhere outside of Japan has terrible conditions for making those good players better. Choose whatever measuring stick you like, then apply it to our best, and their best. Their is a clear difference. As has been said many times before, tournaments are not good measuring sticks. Team games, or gauntlets are a much better indicator, particularly the gauntlet if you wanted to measure individual skill. All anime power up fantasies aside, Japan would have a much bigger spread, undoubtedly. All the other shitty disadvantages that come with this iteration (12 months for import release, 18 months for NA/EU, and PS3 exclusive) and this probably makes for the worst BB yet to catch the Japanese. Don't take me as negative, I just don't like tier discussion when none of us have the means to get exposure to most of the cast, let alone a handful of good/great players to play them. It was one of the nice things about P4U, the cast was tiny and even fewer of those were viable. It leaves lots of room for fun upsets though. I'm looking forward to the hidden Amane blow up........... Oh what, now I'm being unrealistic? =p
Airk Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 Don't take me as negative, ... Is this where I post one of those meme pictures with: "Say tons of negative stuff" "Don't take me as a negative." ?
Errol Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 lots of shit I'm saying we don't play a different game from them. I'm saying we have some very good players over here, that are recognized as very good players over there. I'm saying lots of people have an unrealistic view of what it's like over there vs over here. You're saying that there are more/better top level players in Japan because there are a lot more people, they get the game earlier, and they still have arcades. Congratulations. Everyone knows that. It's still fundamentally the same game and it's pretty much played the same way, and if you get good over here you will be good over there.
Wonderswan Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) ... Is this where I post one of those meme pictures with: "Say tons of negative stuff" "Don't take me as a negative." ? Meh, it's just the ways things are. Trying to say NA hold their own/not that far away from JP level is just lame. Which games did we ever give them a real run for their money in again? How many players went 0-2 (0-1 lol SBO) when they went over there? Are any players over there right now NOT still going 0-2? It is what it is. Play SF4 if you wanna be on par. They fly top players out to like 90% of the majors and it only took 2~3 years to catch up in that game. =p Lots of excrement Read above. Getting good over here = good over there? lol as has usually been the case XD? Where do you pull this shit from? Who is good here that's done anything of note there? I'm honestly curious. Is Xie owning it up? Edited January 17, 2014 by Wonderswan
pulsespot Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 Well there is such a thing as American Bbcp, besides the obvious 'they have bigger/better connections and communities than everybody, there's also a difference in mindset. Japanese players play to learn, whereas American players usually play to win. While there can be noticeable gaps between JP best and everybody else's best, I'll add people who think the JP possess some god gene that allows them to rule fighting games to my peeve list. Biggest , and most obvious, difference between JP and the rest is the arcade scene. Any country that could, or would, replicate the number or large and vibrant arcades they have would inevitably replicate the skill in players. Dispite their skill, the impression I've gotten from the JP is they just don't take the games as seriously as most others I could name. When they lose they don't get salty, they don't ragequit, they don't insult the winner. They just say " oh well, I can do better next time" and keep playing. I'd also add that winning these tounaments doesn't necessarily make you the best, just the best of who showed up.
Wonderswan Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 While there can be noticeable gaps between JP best and everybody else's best, I'll add people who think the JP possess some god gene that allows them to rule fighting games to my peeve list. Biggest , and most obvious, difference between JP and the rest is the arcade scene. Any country that could, or would, replicate the number or large and vibrant arcades they have would inevitably replicate the skill in players. Dispite their skill, the impression I've gotten from the JP is they just don't take the games as seriously as most others I could name. When they lose they don't get salty, they don't ragequit, they don't insult the winner. They just say " oh well, I can do better next time" and keep playing. I'd also add that winning these tounaments doesn't necessarily make you the best, just the best of who showed up. I don't think anybody has mentioned a god gene yet. The arcade aspect is also a small piece of the puzzle, and while that would be an awesome bonus for everywhere else to enjoy it's not critical to making better players. Saying that we are fundamentally playing the same game is a literal statement, nothing more. Yes, I own a copy of BBCP and so does Souji, awesome. Justin, Valle, Watson and plenty of others played 3s, CVS2, ST, A3, etc. and were considered the best in the country at the peak of their game. Fundamentally they were playing the same game. Hurrah.
Auburn Notes Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 I'd have to say the arcade thing is a bigger piece of the puzzle than you imply. Get that many people in one building playing the same game and of course they'll compare notes. Its also one way to have more fun with the game, which in turn makes more people want to learn it. Yeah, it really is just as easy to compare notes online and through the net... but where netplay is concerned, there are so few people (that I know of, anyway) who would sit in a lobby for two or three hours to help each other out. Most people seem only interested in playing to win, and choose not to play skilled people as an alternative to getting better. Arcades contribute more to a playerbase's overall skill level than you seem to realize.
BloodWolF Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 TLDR: god gene, gaijin, it's all the same game.
OutlawVinegar Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 If we could go back in time and throw a few more JP players into the bracket LK and BananaKen wouldn't have made top 8. While individuals can win matches, I think it would be overwhelmingly clear in a team game. 5v5 Japan vs Anybody else, I'm pretty sure Japan would take 100% of the wins, 100% of the time, no matter how many times we ran it back. Gauntlet style would also work. Anything that gets the sample bigger will just continue to show how much bigger the gap is. Please kindly shut the fuck up. Thank you.
Errol Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 If you respect bananaken, lordknight, and SKD, you should remember that those players are a product of "American BBCP"... But then I guess you could argue they aren't good. Maybe even bad! LOL FREE TO SOUJI. w/e. I'm done.
Wonderswan Posted January 18, 2014 Posted January 18, 2014 Oh, no, no sir. Fuck you. Thank you. Wow thanks! I totally forgot about this at the time of posting!... How pathetic do you have to be to go to this video as support? P4U EVO? Seriously? Quick somebody bring me Muhammad Ali so I can beat him now and become the champion. Would you mind posting another anime 5v5? Or is this as good as it gets for America? lol. (I was super hype watching this at the time, so fuck you for posting it as a poor example, asshat.) And feel free to actually post a response to something Errol. You tried using your JP cred and said nothing of note, or responded to anything i've pointed out. I guess you would rather cop out now though, so that means i'm done too. Enjoy your American BB. Oh, and at no point did I say US players weren't good. You're like talking to a retarded patriot. 'You dun love everything about Amer'ka? Fuckin' commie!' Apparently discussions are too personal for you. =/
ReynTime180 Posted January 18, 2014 Posted January 18, 2014 But you did say, you'll never be as good as them, no matter how hard you try. Mmm, not too sure about that. I believe it was even established that there are really good players and really bad players in both Japan and NA, and yes, not everyone has great conditions for getting better, but it's not like that those conditions don't exist. It also doesn't mean that you have to be an obnoxious anus about it.
NecroTheReaper Posted January 18, 2014 Posted January 18, 2014 Anyone epse get pissed when a player choses a character, you choose your main, you win, then they go vs you again just to force you into a mirror match, which by the way they couldn't play for sheisse? Not only that, they spammed pink grabs during every combo (and sadly, I dunno what to mark as my grab tech button on my pad)
Myoro Posted January 18, 2014 Posted January 18, 2014 (edited) Hasn't happened to me, but if it did I'd probably be all like: "fufufu~ you'll have to come a long way before your on my level of playing scrubby purple grab Relius!" and proceed to do my patented Duo Bios purple grab loop for a billion damage. Speaking of which I haven't tried that since CSE... I wonder if it still works? But yeah, if you're still salty after you defeat them just yell "IT'LL BE YEARS BEFORE YOU CAN FIGHT ME!!" at the TV in a pro wrestler impression. that'll clear it right up. dustloop has been rather tense lately. I hear that. Best you can do is stay positive yourself, and then to wait until the rest follow suit! Edited January 18, 2014 by Myoro
NecroTheReaper Posted January 18, 2014 Posted January 18, 2014 That does sound epic. The dude also bursted as soon as a featherweight attack hit him, which made it EXTREMELY easy to bait burst. Seriously. Corner grab...haas and bursted before I even picked up the combo. Honestly, I thought purple grabs died until this week. What must I do to tech grabs? -sigh-
Dark Ranger88 Posted January 18, 2014 Posted January 18, 2014 Please kindly shut the fuck up. Japan vs America Persona Video Thank you. That was some of the funniest commentary I've ever heard. Who the hell were those two guys? Were they high? I want more. "He's doing everything he possibly can to avoid looking at her!" LMFAO On topic: I hate it when people go out of their way to try and astral me...then end up losing because of it. I wanna fight you at your fullest, not when you are playing defensive to look for an astral opening.
mAceOfHearts Posted January 18, 2014 Posted January 18, 2014 That does sound epic. The dude also bursted as soon as a featherweight attack hit him, which made it EXTREMELY easy to bait burst. Seriously. Corner grab...haas and bursted before I even picked up the combo. Honestly, I thought purple grabs died until this week. What must I do to tech grabs? -sigh- You could put it on one of your shoulder buttons? I use this layout: L3: No use L2: Rapid Cancel L1: Throw R3: Burst R2: Crush Trigger R1: No use
ReynTime180 Posted January 18, 2014 Posted January 18, 2014 I tend to go L1: Rapid L2: Throw R1: Burst R2: Barrier/ CT I don't use taunts cause Bang has the longest taunt in the game
Dark Ranger88 Posted January 18, 2014 Posted January 18, 2014 I tend to go L1: Rapid L2: Throw R1: Burst R2: Barrier/ CT I don't use taunts cause Bang has the longest taunt in the game "What's the matter? Are you afraid to taunt your opponent like a true shinobi!?" Just be careful about taunting against another Bang. They can whiff punish by also taunting. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyFvbrKWk-Y
mAceOfHearts Posted January 18, 2014 Posted January 18, 2014 No taunt button? Shame. The ´´No use`` R1 used to be Taunt. Now it's Function 1/2. Whichever one let's you turn unlimited.
NecroTheReaper Posted January 18, 2014 Posted January 18, 2014 My controller has a 6 button layout and I can't play claw style on it xD; I have the usual set up, then for my other two face buttons I have CT and Rapid. Neither of my shoulder buttons are in use but I'm in the lab a lot
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