[CP] Kokonoe - Gameplay Discussion (Discuss Videos/Combos/Questions/etc.)

[Poultrygeist]

Damn, that 236A nerf kinda hurts lol.

[BananaKun]

From Stunedge:

"in short, 5B>6A can only loop once, 5C not jcable on block, 6B>22A doesnot combo otg, 236A>5A fails, gravity didnt change much"

I'm more concerned about the phantom changes now, if this is any indication they might actually be just as bad or worse than her documented changes :O!! (excluding the blackhole nerf of course)

No 236A>5A kind of raises a red flag. What makes this ridiculous is Kokonoe's ability to confirm 2A/5A's into 236A>5A for a blackhole setup or her current oki. Nothing extraordinary about this now that corner blackhole setup is gone and her combo rate + oki was nerfed. 3C>236A is really obnoxious to get hit by I guess, so maybe that's why the 5A followup was nerfed?

Stuff that might go under the radar but is pretty huge:

- Nerfs to 6A recovery/startup/invul frames

- Removing foot invul on 6C or moving from 4f to 7f (when she goes airborne)

- Whether j.2C will no longer be usable as an IOH because of the "float" they describe

- Teleport invul frames/recovery

- Increased cooldown on 22B to remove the "blockstring infinite"

I think she'll still be very strong, but I guess with arcsys there's always the possibility she'll get neutered.. who knows~

EDIT: Ouch, one example of what 236A>5A nerf would do is 3C>236A goes from ~3400 dmg + oki to ~1700 dmg, no oki.

Edited February 14, 2014 by BananaKun

[Eshi]

Yeah if that 236A nerf is true then she got hit HARD. She has no way to force crouching except 6B which she can't combo into on ground opponents... maybe if she has graviton out she can activate > 6B? her corner game is looking super bad now.

[Maho]

Unless activate hitstun as been changed, you don't need to force crouch after it as you can go into 2C > 6C, but that leaves some questions out there, as what can you do after 6C if you already use activate?

The best route in corner is jC > j5D > jC > j214D > jC > j2C whiff |> 6[A] or 5C, I'm pretty sure 6[A] version will be gone with the new j2C landing recovery, 5C gives more margin for that, it should depend on how the new float property affect j2C used as a fastfall move in this combo.

Midscreen, jB > j2C |> 5A route should probably be gone with j2C changes, the other possible route is to go for 2C > 5D > 5B > gatlings > 236A > 3C > ender, but the possible 236A nerf might make this impossible (you only get 2f to hit with 3C after 236A in the current version).

[DC]

Xie just posted on Twitter that j2c acts like a normal air move now instead of going down. RIP

I can't wait to see videos though

[Poultrygeist]

Yeah if that 236A nerf is true then she got hit HARD. She has no way to force crouching except 6B which she can't combo into on ground opponents... maybe if she has graviton out she can activate > 6B? her corner game is looking super bad now.

236B, but that's still corner only.

[Maho]

236B on grounded opponents needs a crouch hit or a graviton set to do activate > 2C > 236B, for the latter if j2C can't be used as fast fall, you won't be able to get anything really damaging.

[STenSatsu]

Guess we could explore the 2c>6c>j.5d>j.b routes a bit more then. The old ones went into an air combo but I'm sure there is other stuff you can do with it also. Just depends on whether it ends up better than other post-patch options.

[BananaKun]

Tsujikawa mentioned on twitter that OD blackhole will just be old blackhole, so finally some good news It might be hard to get an OD cancel at 100% life and go into blackhole setup off of any starter, but there's so much you can do with Kokonoe once she's in overdrive that people will probably find ways to use this.

I messed around with the assumption that blackhole will whiff if you're too close to the corner and came up with this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEPKT_SHQkQ You use overdrive here as well, but as long as you do a 3C>9D before OD runs out you will be able to do the setup. As far as I know it's only escapable if you could escape it now.

For the blackhole combo, whiff 2A>236B is tight, but can be made consistent with advanced input.

Edited February 17, 2014 by BananaKun

[Wokker]

Might be a bit early to ask, but what do you guys think of CP2 Koko after all her nerfs? Still strong, or decent/bad?

[Kurushii]

You mean CP1.1? She's looks decent so far from the information we know. There are hidden changes so we can't be fully sure till it releases.

[Wokker]

You mean CP1.1? She's looks decent so far from the information we know. There are hidden changes so we can't be fully sure till it releases.

I see, thanks for the reply.

[Diveman]

has anybody tried to RC the first hit of Ice gun on CP1.1? it would suck if she couldn't do it and you're forced to spend that 50 meter for the super

[BananaKun]

has anybody tried to RC the first hit of Ice gun on CP1.1? it would suck if she couldn't do it and you're forced to spend that 50 meter for the super

That's one of the big questions, essentially disabling RC on that move would be a huge nerf. I could care less about doing a little more than superball if it's not going to kill the opponent, I want options to maintain my momentum. At the very least though, even if RC is impossible, corner A Superball>6D>236C would give you the freeze as long as you don't have 100 meter.

[Loli Bacon]

The more I play this game, the sadder I get that I won't be able to do anything in the next version.

[darklightjg1]

The unlisted nerfs are a little disheartening. I only got the game and picked up the character last month (haven't played since CS2 since I got tired of Ragna and didn't want to spend so much on CSEX), so I was preparing for the listed changes (the only one that truly bothered me at the time was the auto-DD if you had 50% meter... I'd like to have some better control over how I spend my meter when I want to use my favorite ender).

These other changes getting reported kind of threw a wrench in my plans though... and then cancelled it into 22A and comboed afterward for lots of damage.

Hopefully they're still making adjustments and some more good will come with the negatives.

[Kurushii]

Backdash: total duration changed from 24 to 22f. invincibility duration changed from 1-12f to 1-7. aerial duration changed from 1-16 to 1-14f. distance travelled decreased.

Negative Resistance: changed from level 2 to level 4

Character Combo Rate: changed from 80% to 70%

Hitbox while taking damage: overall made larger

5C: cannot be cancelled on block. cannot be cancelled into 6a or 6b.

2C: cannot be cancelled into 6a or 6b.

5B, 2B: can chain into the same normal up to two times. cannot cancel into 6b.

2B: hittable box made larger. the wrench can be hit.

3C: special cancellable. second hit changed to a level 2 attack.

j.B: smaller attack box. larger hittable box.

6B: 2nd hit can be cancelled into 5c or 3c. uncharged version: second hit changed from level 5 to level 3 attack. forces a crouching position on hit.

j.C: can be blocked crouching. changed from level 4 to level 3 attack.

j.2C: damage changed from 1000 to 900. p1 proration changed from 90 to 70%. hit effect on ground hit changed from knockdown to normal hitstun.

Graviton Gauge: consumption changed from 1 every frame to 2 every frame. recovery changed from 3 every frame to 6 every frame. (the whole gauge is 1500 points)

Graviton Activation (236D): only hits if the opponent is in hitstun

A Broken Bunker (236A): recovery on hit increased. time to followup on corner hit reduced from 8 to 5f.

Broken Bunker (Explosion): p1 proration changed from 100% to 75%. p2 proration changed from 70 to 92%

Liar Haze (22C): if there's a graviton nearby, she moves directly over it. if it's far away, she warps to the side of it. will not crossup in the corner.

Flame Cage (214A/B/C): number of hits changed from 6 to 4.

B Banishing Ray (22B): time before it's available for use again increased by 30f (A version is the same)

Absolute Zero (236C): ice chip damage reduced from 100 to 50. gatling gun damage reduced from 70 to 60 (total from 2500 to 1671). maximum number of hits changed from 48 to 40.

Flame Belborg (214214A/B/C): minimum damage changed from 20 to 10%

OD Flame Belborg (214214A/B/C): deals 210 x 18 damage (normal version is 270 x 12). p2 proration is 97% (normal version is 95%). hitstop is 2f (normal is 3f). minimum damage is 15%.

Jamming Dark (632146D): any gravitons on the stage disappear when this super is used. graviton gauge recovery is halted. in the corner, black hole attack box will go offscreen. on hit, heat gauge recovery increased by 240f.

OD Jamming Dark (632146D): 1800 damage. in the corner, attack box will stay onscreen.

8th armament, heavenly greed crime ver 1.00: new super, if you have at least 50% meter when you use absolute zero, will automatically active. OD version does more damage.

Source: http://www.famitsu.com/matome/bbcp/tyousei7.html

Thanks to Omex

Edited March 14, 2014 by Kurushii

[Beat_By-X]

Thanks a lot !

possible to indicate " buff or nerf before each information ? Or "-" and +

Correct if wrong (im not very good in English :

- Backdash: total duration changed from 24 to 22f. invincibility duration changed from 1-12f to 1-7. aerial duration changed from 1-16 to 1-14f. distance travelled decreased.

- Negative Resistance: changed from level 2 to level 4

- Character Combo Rate: changed from 80% to 70%

- Hitbox while taking damage: overall made larger

- 5C: cannot be cancelled on block. cannot be cancelled into 6a or 6b.

- 2C: cannot be cancelled into 6a or 6b.

+/- 5B, 2B: can chain into the same normal up to two times. cannot cancel into 6b.

- 2B: hittable box made larger. the wrench can be hit.

- 3C: special cancellable. second hit changed to a level 2 attack.

- j.B: smaller attack box. larger hittable box.

-/+ 6B: 2nd hit can be cancelled into 5c or 3c. uncharged version: second hit changed from level 5 to level 3 attack. forces a crouching position on hit.

- j.C: can be blocked crouching. changed from level 4 to level 3 attack.

- j.2C: damage changed from 1000 to 900. p1 proration changed from 90 to 70%. hit effect on ground hit changed from knockdown to normal hitstun.

- Graviton Gauge: consumption changed from 1 every frame to 2 every frame. recovery changed from 3 every frame to 6 every frame. (the whole gauge is 1500 points)

- Graviton Activation (236D): only hits if the opponent is in hitstun

- A Broken Bunker (236A): recovery on hit increased. time to followup on corner hit reduced from 8 to 5f.

-/+ Broken Bunker (Explosion): p1 proration changed from 100% to 75%. p2 proration changed from 70 to 92%

- Liar Haze (22C): if there's a graviton nearby, she moves directly over it. if it's far away, she warps to the side of it. will not crossup in the corner.

- Flame Cage (214A/B/C): number of hits changed from 6 to 4.

- B Banishing Ray (22B): time before it's available for use again increased by 30f (A version is the same)

- Absolute Zero (236C): ice chip damage reduced from 100 to 50. gatling gun damage reduced from 70 to 60 (total from 2500 to 1671). maximum number of hits changed from 48 to 40.

- Flame Belborg (214214A/B/C): minimum damage changed from 20 to 10%

- OD Flame Belborg (214214A/B/C): deals 210 x 18 damage (normal version is 270 x 12). p2 proration is 97% (normal version is 95%). hitstop is 2f (normal is 3f). minimum damage is 15%.

- Jamming Dark (632146D): any gravitons on the stage disappear when this super is used. graviton gauge recovery is halted. in the corner, black hole attack box will go offscreen. on hit, heat gauge recovery increased by 240f.

- OD Jamming Dark (632146D): 1800 damage. in the corner, attack box will stay onscreen.

- 8th armament, heavenly greed crime ver 1.00: new super, if you have at least 50% meter when you use absolute zero, will automatically active. OD version does more damage.

OK ,,, ,??

Edited March 14, 2014 by Beat_By-X

[Kurushii]

Everything is a nerf except for 2B, and Bunker (explosion). 6B is both.

[DaiAndOh]

j.2c getting normal hit could be helpful? Depends on potential combo options afterward (well it does Fatal....so I presume at least on counterhit?)

[Loli Bacon]

j.2c getting normal hit could be helpful? Depends on potential combo options afterward (well it does Fatal....so I presume at least on counterhit?)

But it floats now as well, couple with falling recovery + landing recovery, I don't think it will be a useful neutral tool compared to how it is now.

[Surf]

It'll probably be like Kagura j.C. Where you have to CH or hit them pretty low to the ground combo. Then again she floats herself up so she probably needs FC to combo off of it.

[Kurushii]

I just wonder if I can do j.2C > j.C > j.D or j.C > j.2C > j.D loops. At the very least it might be good combo fodder to bring up her damage that is lost.

[DaiAndOh]

But it floats now as well, couple with falling recovery + landing recovery, I don't think it will be a useful neutral tool compared to how it is now.

Works/worked for Mu...guess I'm spoiled but any move that covers that kind of space in that time can't be horrible....

[Mirasantika]

"A Broken Bunker (236A): recovery on hit increased. time to followup on corner hit reduced from 8 to 5f."

Does it mean we cant follow up with 5a anymore?