FatalCounter Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 (edited) Well is it just me or Taokaka get nerfed. Her nerfs seem like big nerfs to me. Recovery of her get in moves and even her backdash, P2 of her jD has been nerfed too. I really believe she might not be top tier anymore. Overall her nerfs are serious. I think Kagura might get better overall. I asked Xie about Japanese Kagura's players thought on Kagura changes and he told me that they are not too worried about his damage but are very confidant on his neutral getting better. Even Xie who tried him said he might be cheap and very solid. Edited March 5, 2014 by FatalCounter
-Seo Posted March 6, 2014 Posted March 6, 2014 Been looking into IOH j.C a little more, and it has 3 different situations that I've found where it can work on a different set of characters Neutral: Relius, Hakumen, Tager, Hazama, Terumi, Jin, Arakune, Carl, Platinum, Valk. 6B Blockstun: Ragna, Hakumen, Tager, Jin, Carl, Valk. B orb Blockstun: Ragna, Mu, Relius, Makoto, Tao, Hakumen, Tager, Amane, Jin, Carl, Valk, Bang, Nu, Kagura. Characters in red are ones that it does work on, but the spacing is much too specific to be practical. Jin is a little strange too, and requires you to hit somewhere around the middle to the end of the sword, it'll whiff near the hilt. If this could get added to the first post/FAQ section, that'd be great!
Dazardz Posted March 6, 2014 Posted March 6, 2014 This is great for the FAQ section, I always wondered how many characters this could be used on. Thanks for the list. Carl must have a huge hat, because he's a little kid.
MikelAL93 Posted March 8, 2014 Author Posted March 8, 2014 Very interesting information, Seo. I'll have that list added to the FAQ/Q&A thread's first post right now. Thanks!
Justice7541 Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 What are people doing off CH 6C? I get this a lot and it screws up my combos really badly because I'm always trying to go into 6DB when I see the 6C connect. Is there a decent followup option that works for both CH and regular 6C?
Raptor Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 Disclaimer: this is probably not the best combos, but they are what I'm most comfortable with. For CH 6C midscreen I do 2DA>B orb combos. Regular hit, delay 6DA is an option. In corner this one can work both CH and regular, I do 5C>2DA>6DA>etc.
Dazardz Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 What are people doing off CH 6C? I get this a lot and it screws up my combos really badly because I'm always trying to go into 6DB when I see the 6C connect. Is there a decent followup option that works for both CH and regular 6C? I have a few problems with this too. 6DA will sometimes pass through the opponent if you CH them close enough with 6C, so I use 6C > 2DA > 5DC > 28C. I don't go into B orb, because I'm usually holding 6D ready to use 6DC if it was not a CH, and B orb won't hit the opponent if you hit them with 2DA low enough. If you understand what I mean...
Justice7541 Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 Biggest problem for me is that it's hard to see/confirm the CH because the effect for 6C regular hit is already so big. So I see it hit and press 6D and then WHOOPS IT WAS A CH. So now I'm trying to figure out of 6D 5DC or something works.
Surf Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 I always go into 6D if I get 6C on hit or block. If I see they blocked it I stance cancel, which leaves you relatively safe if your not directly in front of them. If I see it was normal hit I go into 6D~B pretty much immediately. If I see it CH I'll hold the 6D for awhile and 6D~B a little later. CH anti air confirms are always iffy. And 6C makes it worse because of it extreme difference in untech between normal and CH.
Lord Pwnge18 Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 Going into 6D is probably your best bet. On normal hit you can go into 6D~B or A as Surf said, and if it's CH you could easily just go out of 6D into 2D stance and do 2D~A > B orb.
FatalCounter Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 I always go into 6D if I get 6C on hit or block. If I see they blocked it I stance cancel, which leaves you relatively safe if your not directly in front of them. If I see it was normal hit I go into 6D~B pretty much immediately. If I see it CH I'll hold the 6D for awhile and 6D~B a little later. CH anti air confirms are always iffy. And 6C makes it worse because of it extreme difference in untech between normal and CH. This, It is really tricky. This is the easiest way for me to confirm on both situations. Most of the time, it works.
Justice7541 Posted March 14, 2014 Posted March 14, 2014 Good to know. I'll have to check it out and see what works for the 6C confirm. Incidentally I'm noticing that Kagura's 2C 5C combo is actually a gatling, has anyone tested what the frames are on block? I can't check it now.
Justice7541 Posted March 14, 2014 Posted March 14, 2014 Oh, Kagura buffs. Annoying to copy-paste from phone but basically my take is: - C moves are way better now, especially 2C which got like a third of its recovery shaved off. - Universal drive startup buff yay - No more drive cancel gimmicks boo - Command throw nerf boo - No more 6A to 5k, that was too OP I guess - 2DB buff lmao, that move gonna be OP now
Adsfzxczxc Posted March 14, 2014 Posted March 14, 2014 Kagura changes (translated by SoWL): Hitstun motion - an upper hitstun motion (after being hit with jumping attacks and the like) now has a taller hurtbox. Negative Penalty Resistance - increased from 3 to 5. Counter Assault - the hitbox is increased downwards. 5C - recovery decreased to 23 frames (rather than 26). Damage decreased to 1000 (rather than 1100). Guard recovery decreased to 22 frames (rather than 25). No longer staggers on ground hit (hitstun decreased from 31 to 28 frames). Blowback decreased on aerial hit, untech time decreased to 36 frames (rather than 40). 2C - recovery decreased to 23 frames (rather than 33). Damage decreased to 900 (rather than 1000). Guard recovery decreased to 20 frames (rather than 23). Hitstun decreased to 28 frames (rather than 31). 3C - the blowback is lower, but farther. 6A - recovery decreased to 19 frames (rather than 21). Now -3 on block (rather than -5). Can no longer gatling into 6B. Can no longer be special-canceled. 6C - start-up decreased to 22 frames (rather than 24). Damage decreased to 1200 (rather than 1300). Guard recovery increased to 24 frames (rather than 20). Head invincibility removed. The blowback is lower. j.B - can now gatling into j.A. Ground D stances - can now be followed up sooner (after 14 frames rather than 17). Midair D stances - can now be followed up sooner (after 5 frames rather than 8). Midair D stance cancel - now available later (after 34 frames rather than 19). Forward throw, backward throw - now wall-bounces in midscreen and wall-splats in the corner. Follow-up backdash - duration decreased to 25 frames (rather than 30). Ryuuhashou - stagger time on counter-hit increased to 43 frames (rather than 40). Ryuugekisou - P2 changed from 60%+100% (total 60%) to 80%+65% (total 52%). Toryuurenzan - the second hit's hitbox is increased. Now moves Kagura forward during the attack. OD Toryuurenzan - the second hit's untech time is increased to 50 frames (rather than 42). Sairingeki - when switching to another D follow-up, Kagura is considered airborne. Ryuusenken - the dash's speed is increased. the second hit's attack level is increased from 3 to 5 (now -5 on block rather than -9). Ryuugajin - untech time decreased to 45 frames (rather than 60). Hiryuusengeki - can now only withstand 1500 damage from projectiles during the charge (rather than any amount). Ryuujinshou - combo rate time decreased to Moment (rather than Fast). Wall-splats on counter-hit. The blowback is lower. OD Ryuuha: Gokuenjin - now only kills the opponent on the follow-up hit. Ryuuou: Zangaoushou - OD version added; the damage is 500, 550x19, total 2881 (regular version's damage is 500, 4000, total 2247). Both versions now turn Kagura around on activation.
-Seo Posted March 14, 2014 Posted March 14, 2014 Not sure what to make of a few of the changes. Air drive cancel nerf is really upsetting, and removing head invuln on 6C is honestly quite baffling and 5C not causing stagger sounds a little weird. Then again with drive startup buff, maybe 5DC will be a slightly more viable anti-air and 2C recovery is a huge buff. Glad they didn't touch stance supers damage and charge supers startup though. RIP 6A>Astral ;_;7
Justice7541 Posted March 14, 2014 Posted March 14, 2014 I wonder if the 3C change will prevent him from doing derp stuff midscreen now. Hopefully he can still do 3C > 5DC, especially with the drive startup buff.
FatalCounter Posted March 14, 2014 Posted March 14, 2014 (edited) Yo Kagura is just godlike now, I just love these changes OMG!!!!! Overall he is way better, I won't complain. Even Hakumen 2C doesn't have Head invincibility but try to jump over it. They just made a way more solid character I love it. Edited March 14, 2014 by FatalCounter
Dazardz Posted March 14, 2014 Posted March 14, 2014 I am scared. I think I'll have to get rid of a lot of habits which is fine, but how will I handle other things? Like the 6C nerf for example.
Danke Posted March 14, 2014 Posted March 14, 2014 Wtf how can you take those changes as anything other than horrible lol.
Dazardz Posted March 14, 2014 Posted March 14, 2014 Wtf how can you take those changes as anything other than horrible lol. 6A - recovery decreased to 19 frames (rather than 21). Now -3 on block (rather than -5). Can no longer gatling into 6B. Can no longer be special-canceled. 3C - the blowback is lower, but farther. 6C - start-up decreased to 22 frames (rather than 24). Damage decreased to 1200 (rather than 1300). Guard recovery increased to 24 frames (rather than 20). Head invincibility removed. The blowback is lower. 5C - recovery decreased to 23 frames (rather than 26). Damage decreased to 1000 (rather than 1100). Guard recovery decreased to 22 frames (rather than 25). No longer staggers on ground hit (hitstun decreased from 31 to 28 frames). Blowback decreased on aerial hit, untech time decreased to 36 frames (rather than 40). Ahaha no no no ASW is joking right, right? RIGHT ehehehehe
Danke Posted March 14, 2014 Posted March 14, 2014 Air stance on 2da isnt even a buff anymore if they raped air stance cancel. He got wrecked for no reason.
FatalCounter Posted March 14, 2014 Posted March 14, 2014 (edited) Air stance on 2da isnt even a buff anymore if they raped air stance cancel. He got wrecked for no reason. Where did you see they raped air stance cancel? Well... we got different opinions but I strongly believe he could (waiting until 19) be better. Edited March 15, 2014 by FatalCounter
-Seo Posted March 14, 2014 Posted March 14, 2014 Where did you see they raped air stance cancel? Well... we got different opinions but I strongly believe he could (waiting until 19) is better. Midair D stance cancel - now available later (after 34 frames rather than 19). Feels like they've missed the point with these changes honestly, but we'll just have to wait and see.
Lucalibur Posted March 14, 2014 Posted March 14, 2014 I haven't touched Kagura in months and I haven't checked the changes in detail, but would it be possible to land during air stance and follow up 2DA with 5B or something? I think it depends on the height it puts you into, but if it's not too high then it might be possible.
-Seo Posted March 14, 2014 Posted March 14, 2014 I haven't touched Kagura in months and I haven't checked the changes in detail, but would it be possible to land during air stance and follow up 2DA with 5B or something? I think it depends on the height it puts you into, but if it's not too high then it might be possible. It doesn't put him too high up from what I remember of the JAEPO trailer, around about a standing character head height (maybe just a little lower). I imagine you might be able to still cancel into 5B on hit despite the air stance nerf, just because of 2DA's huge untech time. I'm hoping you can still orb cancel it on hit, and this airbourne property only goes with going into another stance.
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