Errol Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 Y'all need to fight Level5Chan, then you'll probably stfu and stop whining about Tsubaki being bad. Everytime Tsubaki gets nerfs I sleep a little bit better. when i did that I won with my month-old rachel, and was like, yeah, this was the right decision
The Martian Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 Someone help out a noob. What is it called when I'm in the middle of attacking, and suddenly I flash red and I can start right into a different attack? It's like I can skip recovery frames, but it eats meter. How exactly do I do it, because I only manage to do it on accident. Also what's the deal with avatars here? I see varying sizes, but I only seem to be able to upload pictures that are like , 50x50...lol.
TD Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 Off topic I know, but...Someone should make a fighting game where you create your own character. Just have a giant movepool of normals, specials, and supers that you can pick from. Movement options (dashes, jumps, backsteps), health, etc. are all customizable too. Then implement a points system where good moves and attributes cost more than average or sucky ones (also restrictions on certain builds, e.g. "You can't have a super like Legacy Edge AND an unblockable move on the same character"). If a particular tool is deemed OP then it can be patched to cost more or have its attributes tweaked. If you don't like the character you made then you can just tweak them. I would make so many waifus (cosmetic customization options are a must. Think of how much money you could make by releasing huge packs of cosmetic items as DLC.) for any future devs out there l support this 200% this or a whole bunch of chars to choose ala mugen or card sage which, sadly never released.
NecroTheReaper Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 Its a rapid cancel, hit ABCD during an.attwck amd you cancel its recovery.
TD Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 Someone help out a noob. What is it called when I'm in the middle of attacking, and suddenly I flash red and I can start right into a different attack? It's like I can skip recovery frames, but it eats meter. How exactly do I do it, because I only manage to do it on accident. Also what's the deal with avatars here? I see varying sizes, but I only seem to be able to upload pictures that are like , 50x50...lol. its called a rapid cancel. press ABC at the same time during your attack to cancel it immediately. there are some exceptions, though. cost 50 heat. if the benefits aren't immediately obvious to you, it allows for extended pressure, damage, mixup, and/or safety for, depending on the character, a (steep) price. @necro ABCD is burst or OD cancel.
Myoro Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 Its a rapid cancel, hit ABCD during an.attwck amd you cancel its recovery. That's a negative ghost rider, the input is just A+B+C. But if you want it to be easier, just go to button options and change it to r# or something (that's what I did and I'm lovin' it) its called a rapid cancel. press ABC at the same time during your attack to cancel it immediately. there are some exceptions, though. cost 50 heat. if the benefits aren't immediately obvious to you, it allows for extended pressure, damage, mixup, and/or safety for, depending on the character, a (steep) price. Ninja'd
NecroTheReaper Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 I'm blind and just woke up, don't judge me xP xD. Eh, the more I look around sone parts of these forums and here people complain (even if its deserving of it) I cant help but get a bit annoyed.
Myoro Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 I'm blind and just woke up, don't judge me xP xD. Eh, the more I look around sone parts of these forums and here people complain (even if its deserving of it) I cant help but get a bit annoyed. To be fair, I think you or I would be salty if our character actually got nerfed.
OmnixTSC Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 when i did that I won with my month-old rachel, and was like, yeah, this was the right decision I remember playing him as well. Suffice to say I didn't have any lasting impressions of his Tsubaki :/
NecroTheReaper Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 Probably, but at least it'd be relevant to our character (not alpt of players to complain anyway lol), not running around and seeing odd things like "Well half the rest od the cast can get 7-8k OD combos on average, why can't we?" I'd like to know just how many characters get that kinda damage that either don't have an FC or best starter move, cuz I know Relius can only get up to 6.9k from a difficult 5B confirm. I just want it to be relevant @.@
Dreize Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 Yeah, like I said, they all make sense to me. Unless you mean that they should've went a different path about nerfing his mix-ups and wolf gauge, at which point the exact way to do so hardly matters. Saw some guy do an ArcSysWorks interaction type thing which looked kinda fun a few pages back. This is how it would go if I was there. Collapsed: Meeting: ArcSysWorks Employee #78: Okay, so, we've gathered here today to discuss Valkenhayn changes for the upcoming patch. Anyone have any ideas? ArcSysWorks Employee #72: Oh, I do! Let's give his wolf gauge a cooldown for whenever he switches back into human mode. Dreize: Okay, sure. Not a bad change I suppose. Seems like we're off to a good start, what else guys? ArcSysWorks Employee #75: Oh, oh, I know! Let's nerf the starter time on his w[j.B]! Dreize: Err, why exactly? Valkenhayn has 6 wolf normals, w[j.B] is by the far the least relevant one and isn't used much outside of combo filler. Shouldn't we be more focused on his mix-up? ArcSysWorks Employee #75: Na, that's boring. Feigning actual change is much more fun. Dreize: .... ArcSysWorks Employee #78: Alright, alright, we'll add that change to the list. What else guys? Dreize: I think we shou- ArcSysWorks Employee #77: Let's do the same thing to w[j.A]! Dreize: Well, w[j.A] is Valkenhayn's worst wolf starter in terms of combo potential and he only gets about 2k off of it as it is regardless of screen positioning. Plus, it's already an S starter, he only gets a short combo off of it. Besides, aren't there more important things to focus on lik- ArcSysWorks Employee #77: No, no, no! People are always complaining about Valkenhayn's wolf overheads. w[j.A] is an overhead. We are nerfing it. Dreize: But is that really the most appropriate course of actio- ArcSysWorks Employee #78: Ugh, stop questioning the changes man. I want to make this quick. I'm starving and would like to have an early lunch. Moving on, what else should we change guys? Dreize: Well, we should probably take a lo- ArcSysWorks Employee # 76: I HAVE A COOL IDEA GUYS! You know his super cool sturm wolf distortion that nobody ever uses? Let's make it a catch super. Dreize: What exactly does that have to do with any- ArcSysWorks Employee #76: Aaaaaaannnnnnnddddd let's make the animation portion of the distortion faster! Dreize: What. ArcSysWorks Employee #78: Good thinking man, more random/pointless stuff! I like it! What's next guys? Dreize: Well, we should probably take away the head/throw invulnerably from his 5D. Then there's some of his geschwind cancellable normals/specials, plus the fact that he can do it on whiff is kinda silly. We could also give his wolf command grab some more start-up and remove wolf cancellable properties from a few of his normals. Not to mention the fact that his human 6B/6C could probably be adjusted a bit in terms of +'ness on block. Then there's his wolf brake IOH's tha- ArcSysWorks Employee #74: Boring, vapid, lame. Instead of all that nonsense you just mentioned lets just buff his grounded beast cannons by giving them less start-up time. Dreize: What....I don't even? Why?! What exactly are we trying to accomplish with this? ArcSysWorks Employee #74: It's not about accomplishing anything. Honestly I just like watching Valkenhayn zip across the screen super fast and with a start-up buff he'll be able to do it even faster. Sounds kinda cool, right? Dreize: No. ArcSysWorks Employee #78: Anyways, it sounds like a pretty cool idea to me. Who cares if it's random and doesn't address Valkenhayn's actual issues at all! Added to the list! And with that I'd like to conclude todays Valkenhayn changes meeting, good work folks! See ya at Quiznos! Dreize: Welp. Needless to say I was interrupted a lot in that meeting. I made a list of potential changes, and even though those changes would have probably hurt the character a lot more at least they would have made much more sense. Instead we got arbitrary shenanigans (aside from the wolf gauge change). Though I suppose that there are still a few questions that we need answered, so there's that. Nothing I can do about it though. Ah well.
Justice7541 Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 They're all japs so I think it'd go more like WE CHANGU GEIMU NAO, HAIL GRORIOUS NIPPON EMPELOR or something along those lines.
Errol Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 well, I guess we'll see how it goes. I would've figured enough change on the wolf gauge could be enough by itself. I'm guessing that wjA and wjB starters will overall consume wolf meter so you can't loop them with these adjustments. not sure about wjC. there is still always the command grab too.
SoWL Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 I wouldn't mind if that was posted in a more usual way, but I admit, I'm not that knowledgeable about Valk, so I stand corrected, I suppose. Though making the super faster does make sense, since CP was all about making the game faster in the small details, like with Sekkajin and things like that. They're all japs so I think it'd go more like WE CHANGU GEIMU NAO, HAIL GRORIOUS NIPPON EMPELOR or something along those lines. Don't forget the buckteeth and slanted eyes, those are oh so hilarious and accurate!
Dreize Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 Overall it looks like he was nerfed in the patch with his two biggest nerfs being the wolf gauge & w[j.A] change. Doesn't look like he was nerfed too much though at first glance, but I suppose that we'll get clarification in the coming months when we get more details on the changes. Would have gone a different route with the changes regardless, though. There's been no mention of w[j.A] and w[j.B] using more wolf meter, just starter time being decreased. Which is a weird change when you really think about it, but we'll see. I wouldn't mind if that was posted in a more usual way Yeah, sorry about that. Thought that it'd be a nice change of pace when I saw someone else do it. In hindsight it looks kinda juvenile.
SuperJ Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 partially derailing this thread for a sec, since i find these sort of questions interesting: is a game better balanced by a single author, or by a committee? how about character variety?
Lucalibur Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 A single author is the surefire way to go if you want to mess up badly. I have a hobby of writing movesets with frame data and everything included, and from my experience I can tell not bothering to get different opinions and viewpoints of the stuff you're working with is not going to do any good. You NEED more people to discuss ideas with, hear their thoughts on something, and help imagining what the general public's opinion on it will be. Character variety works in the exact same way, because if you have a group and the group has a shared opinion on something, then that is most likely the 'common opinion' on that matter. If you want to make the character 'unique' or 'fundamentally different' or just plain 'crazy' then knowing what the average opinion on certain character aspects are so that you stray far from them is a good start. It all works in conjunction, but the basic idea is that if you have a group of people with similar experience, you have much bigger chances to get a good job done.
SuperJ Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 i completely agree with you on the feedback part. let's narrow the questions down given equal quantity and quality of playtesting and feedback, are balance decisions better made by a single person, or by a group?
Errol Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 Overall it looks like he was nerfed in the patch with his two biggest nerfs being the wolf gauge & w[j.A] change. Doesn't look like he was nerfed too much though at first glance, but I suppose that we'll get clarification in the coming months when we get more details on the changes. Would have gone a different route with the changes regardless, though. There's been no mention of w[j.A] and w[j.B] using more wolf meter, just starter time being decreased. Which is a weird change when you really think about it, but we'll see. Yeah, sorry about that. Thought that it'd be a nice change of pace when I saw someone else do it. In hindsight it looks kinda juvenile. i mean that, the shorter the combo is, the less time you have to continue the combo in human form to build back meter. in theory anyway. particularly with the cooldown on wolf gauge recovery in place. Basically, net wolf gauge gain/loss from point of combo.... if the net is about even I would guess you'd run out eventually cause you have to use some meter just to get the first hit.
Myoro Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 A group, always. Heck, if I had solitary control of any FG it'd be very different and probably not likable, and I consider myself one of the more fair people out there when it comes to decision making. If you're trying to make a game for more than one person, it should be tested by and altered by more than one person.
Sophisticat Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 when i did that I won with my month-old rachel, and was like, yeah, this was the right decision I remember playing him as well. Suffice to say I didn't have any lasting impressions of his Tsubaki :/ Play him moar. He can widely vary between playing like shit and playing like Daigo on Yomi Heaven Level 9.
Rhannmah Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 Even more than that, you need a group, yes, but not just ANY group. You need a group of VERY knowledgeable people to know what the changes will mean in terms of cast balance. Ideally, you'd want something like 3 top players per character to give their input on suggested changes.
Errol Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 Play him moar. He can widely vary between playing like shit and playing like Daigo on Yomi Heaven Level 9. I guess when you just play super random that can happen. but nonetheless, Kiba and Owner are several levels above that, so there's no point. Sorry.
mAc Chaos Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 I feel like I could balance the game perfectly myself with input from other people. But I'm sure everyone else thinks that too. It really shouldn't be THAT hard if you just want to tweak things...
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