Skye Posted August 19, 2014 Posted August 19, 2014 Ct Rachel is rather tame compare to ct arakune and ct Carl that broken piece of c**p CT Rachel was CT Arakune with curse mode always on lol. I think that not having an ioh won't break rachel, it took more than that to make her bad in CS1. If she still has j.2c then there is still potential for mix up what with cross up/fake cross up stuff, not to mention her pressure is pretty safe and her zoning can be rather oppressive once the playground is up.
NecroTheReaper Posted August 19, 2014 Posted August 19, 2014 While she would probably be usable, I'd rather not give a reason for less people to play a harder character. I'm lucky that Errol is around quite frequently to give me Rachel exp, but if it werent for that, there's no other Rachel I've played. This is, of course, opinion, but still, who likes characters to be "unplayed"?
Skye Posted August 19, 2014 Posted August 19, 2014 As an Arakune player I've dealt with this back when he was considered broke, much less now where he's in the background with the rest of "them". And he has quite a learning curve if you don't want to get slayed mashing dive and bugs. There will always be your handful of players who stay dedicated. For this reason I don't think they take into consideration the character's.....uh.....subjective playability (?) when doing balance changes.
Errol Posted August 19, 2014 Posted August 19, 2014 I do remember mori saying it was ok for hard characters to be strong, IIRC. All said I think people at the same time underestimate and overestimate the significance of Rachel's j.A being an overhead.
Dreiko Posted August 19, 2014 Posted August 19, 2014 I'm somewhat conflicted when it comes to the issue of char popularity. On one hand I want everyone to play my main and enjoy the game the most when my main is fighting. On the other hand I dislike bandwagon players flooding. I think everyone should just play who they really like unless they're hit with a truckload of nerfs like Rachel did or something. That being the case I can't help but look at people who dropped Bang in cs2 (and especially in CP where he's just harder, not bad) with some level of discontent. It's like, all this warm welcoming feeling I have for people who main my char feels like it's being thrown back in my face by their dropping him. " I thought we were Bang bros but you were only here for the 5A." Describes my experience talking to ex Bang mains lol.
Vulcan422 Posted August 19, 2014 Posted August 19, 2014 Uh... Ct Rachel had Infinite pressure wich broke your defense, remember guys? Nobody remembers CT because we've all blocked it out of our memories. It was just that traumatizing.
kosmos badgirl Posted August 19, 2014 Posted August 19, 2014 Clone Phantasma out this week in NA, is any good? http://www.arcsystemworks.jp/arcstyle/overseas/blazblue/eng/index.html
Skye Posted August 19, 2014 Posted August 19, 2014 I do remember mori saying it was ok for hard characters to be strong, IIRC. All said I think people at the same time underestimate and overestimate the significance of Rachel's j.A being an overhead. We're long past the time to be quoting Mori about anything. I understand that's it's an important piece of her mix up game, and if they took it away, of course it would hurt her, but I hardly think that she would shoot down to CS1 status for that alone. I mean, the point of taking it away would be to nerf her mix up, her offensive game is very good with or without it, again speaking exclusively in the context of j.a ioh, if they took other things away, then I would be worried a bit if I was a Rachel player. To put it in context, Arakune lost ioh j.c, and unlike j.a, it's quite integral to Arakune's gameplay, whose strong offense comes and goes in short bursts of blood, sweat and tears. But then again I could be biased, maybe ioh does make or break Rachel...
Errol Posted August 19, 2014 Posted August 19, 2014 j.A not being an overhead kills fuzzies too. it cuts her mixup in well less than in half. if your mixup is cut that much, you might as well play a character like litchi or azrael and do 2-3x as much damage when you land a combo. Rachel's mixup being strong is why she gets so little damage off most of her stuff. Kind of like if arakune didn't get more damage than ragna during curse. I thought it would be fine before I played Rachel too.
Surf Posted August 19, 2014 Posted August 19, 2014 Her ioh stuff isn't even "mixup". I don't know how or why people call it mixup when it's almost humanely impossible to react to what she's going to do. it's a 50 into a 50 into a 50 if she has the resources. I can't call a straight guessing game mixup. For a second or two the game turns into a 1 Player game with many characters not having a tool to get her off of them besides maybe barrier IB. GIVEN the off chance you even blocked correctly. It's just bullshit. Not "mixup". Why any character would even have the option to do something like that is beyond me. The actual mixup based characters in the game don't even have an option to pressure like that. So why does she when shes predominately zoning/spacing control Like Skye said even without it she would still be a solid character. She would still have strong oki in the corner and multiple mixup attempts while the opponent is blocking George. Superior space control and zoning, especially with bat usage. Pumpkin has always been dumb. Etc. Just because a character would lack a reliable standing overhead (or a means to overhead) means nothing if they excel in other areas.
mAc Chaos Posted August 19, 2014 Posted August 19, 2014 Nobody remembers CT because we've all blocked it out of our memories. It was just that traumatizing.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN7pucYGzT4Ah, memories.
Myoro Posted August 19, 2014 Posted August 19, 2014 @mAc: I get the feeling that CT was a lot more broken than it looks at a glance. I came in at Extend so I was spared the horror. Whenever I ask about CT I just get this look and nothing else.
Soviet Bear Posted August 19, 2014 Posted August 19, 2014 Unless you're talking to Nu or Rachel players.
susano Posted August 19, 2014 Posted August 19, 2014 @mAc: I get the feeling that CT was a lot more broken than it looks at a glance. I came in at Extend so I was spared the horror. Whenever I ask about CT I just get this look and nothing else. Lmfao.
TekkamanArk Posted August 19, 2014 Posted August 19, 2014 I kind of liked CT, and I played Jin and Carl. At the same time, that picture's hilarious.
Justice7541 Posted August 19, 2014 Posted August 19, 2014 @mAc: I get the feeling that CT was a lot more broken than it looks at a glance. I came in at Extend so I was spared the horror. Whenever I ask about CT I just get this look and nothing else. CT was exactly as broken as it looked, i.e. horribly.
SoWL Posted August 19, 2014 Posted August 19, 2014 However broken CT might've been, it was still the game that I literally dreamed of playing. I then woke up, realized that I'm not going to have a PS3 anytime soon, tried not to cry, cried a lot, and finally went to my local scene for the first time. Good thing CS came out pretty soon after that.
Errol Posted August 19, 2014 Posted August 19, 2014 Her ioh stuff isn't even "mixup". I don't know how or why people call it mixup when it's almost humanely impossible to react to what she's going to do. it's a 50 into a 50 into a 50 if she has the resources. I can't call a straight guessing game mixup. For a second or two the game turns into a 1 Player game with many characters not having a tool to get her off of them besides maybe barrier IB. GIVEN the off chance you even blocked correctly. It's just bullshit. Not "mixup". Why any character would even have the option to do something like that is beyond me. The actual mixup based characters in the game don't even have an option to pressure like that. So why does she when shes predominately zoning/spacing control Like Skye said even without it she would still be a solid character. She would still have strong oki in the corner and multiple mixup attempts while the opponent is blocking George. Superior space control and zoning, especially with bat usage. Pumpkin has always been dumb. Etc. Just because a character would lack a reliable standing overhead (or a means to overhead) means nothing if they excel in other areas. Fuck that - truth is people like to pretend that they would be able to react if stuff were a bit slower, but they can't. What they can't do, is mash DPs and backsteps once they're in blockstun. I'm sorry you've gotta block. the term 50/50 wasn't invented in CT because of Rachel. Rachel doesn't get multiple mixup attempts while the opponent is blocking george. IF the opponent blocks george, which you don't have to. the only time you can really force blocking is by using pumpkin with wind, not george. The truth is that as the game stands, if you do block this character, you deserve what is coming. Rachel already has plenty of matchups where she is at the disadvantage, and the others are mostly pretty close too. Pretty much all of Rachel's game leads to the return she gets when she lands hits or gets you blocking. Rachel doesn't have a strong zoning game without it. She'll straight lose on risk reward.
TekkamanArk Posted August 19, 2014 Posted August 19, 2014 Looking at how much people are complaining about Rachel, I wonder how much people are going to complain about Celica when she does like a 5 hit combo and gets 4k
Soviet Bear Posted August 19, 2014 Posted August 19, 2014 Looking at how much people are complaining about Rachel, I wonder how much people are going to complain about Celica when she does like a 5 hit combo and gets 4k One quarter of the people, the ones who switch to Celica will claim how she isn't imbalanced at all and people just need to learn how to play the game better. Another quarter of the people, the ones who don't switch to Celica, will complain how she's imbalanced, a pay-to-win DLC character and how she should be banned at tournaments and "Oh my god I can't wait for Xrd #reloaded to be done with this crap." The quarter of the playerbase that is made up of Azraels both new and old will wonder what the problem is. The last quarter, the Koko players who didn't switch to Celica for some reason will just be glad everyone forgot about them.
Luminos564 Posted August 19, 2014 Posted August 19, 2014 I suppose I'm a weirdo because I don't fit into any of the categories. I am excited and genuinely interested in trying out Celica (not necessarily playing her prominently however). But at the same time, I am also looking forward to (well more like dreading) the incoming balance changes, Lamb-chops being "re-discovered" by players and of course, anything else BBCP 2.0 has planned. I do not plan on raising a fuss over who is OP. I made no peep of protest when Kokonuts had several Touch of Death combos discovered within 24 hours and I plan to doing the same now. That and I have a strange feeling that, for all the huge-ass damage Celica can output from simple stuff, she's not going to be a character that breaks the game over her cute knees with a sickening crack.
Airk Posted August 19, 2014 Posted August 19, 2014 j.A not being an overhead kills fuzzies too. it cuts her mixup in well less than in half. if your mixup is cut that much, you might as well play a character like litchi or azrael and do 2-3x as much damage when you land a combo. Rachel's mixup being strong is why she gets so little damage off most of her stuff. Kind of like if arakune didn't get more damage than ragna during curse. I thought it would be fine before I played Rachel too. See, in my stupid opinion, Rachel is verging on too good because of her IOH combined with her other tools (maybe if there were a cooldown of like, a second or so on wind use so she couldn't chain them? I don't really know how this works) but Litchi and Azrael are even MORE too good (Both of them are pretty bull**** if you ask me). That or like, 75% of the rest of the cast needs big buffs. Seriously, I don't know why it's okay for Rachel and Litchi and Azrael to do what they do, and then you have characters like Makoto and Platinum and Amane who the developers seem to look at and say "these characters aren't allowed to have good tools because good tools would make them too good" even though other characters already have those good tools in addition to a ton of other good tools. Meh. Same old same old rant, I guess, but to this day I would SWEAR that different characters in this game are balanced to different standards. I just want everyone to be good. I don't even care what level of good. If they want to buff everyone to Kokonoe tier, great, I'm on board, if they want to nerf everyone to Makoto tier, fine, great, just as long as we're done with this $%$%&^&%&% "This (these) character has magic banana powers that allow them to get 6k off an 18 frame overhead, while everyone else gets their choice of 1.5k or a 28 frame overhead."
Recommended Posts