[CP] News & Gameplay Discussion

[JyakotuKurayami]

Carl honestly hasn't lost anything. He's stayed more or less the same, with some changes in his priorities of certain attacks.

[Narroo]

Let's see: Tager used to be much less combo heavy.  He just did tons of damage off a few basic chains.  Of course, he was hard to play with for other reasons.

[TeeJay]

i liked CT Litchi though also I like her additions of 4D and 6D too in CS. But using a lot more itsuu a, b, c and playing more defensively was my thing. i wonder if they are trying to add playstyle diversity or restrict it with changes. I remember CT Ragna and his funny 6D? RC 3c 22C combos or a ID wallbouce 22C combo or something like that. 5C Carnage Scissors  wallbounce ender confirms. :P

[just some guy]

As far as character balance was concerned, I really only ever felt like Nu was too powerful and mashing left/right when frozen by Jin was stupid. I do agree with what mAc said about characters losing their spirit. Even if some stuff ended up being objectively better for some characters (lol Haku damage), it's a complaint I've heard from Haku and Tager players, for example.

When have Tager players ever complained about moving away from CT?

[Zeron_X25]

When have Tager players ever complained about moving away from CT?

 

This.

[Dreiko]

Let's see: Tager used to be much less combo heavy. He just did tons of damage off a few basic chains. Of course, he was hard to play with for other reasons.

That was CT in general. Everything did tons of damage. A basic jC j2C jC j2C j214D combo with Nu did like 3+k. Daifunka did 3.5k by itself. Everything was sshort and did tons of damage in CT.

[TD]

Then cs1 litchi and bang happened. Not even going to include the gene hazard dlc we got.

[StylisH]

I actually enjoy long combos. They're satisfying to pull off.

[Narroo]

This.

I think MikeZ did, actually.

[Luminos564]

A sense of "individuality" was lost? Oh Mori, you card. Is that why you decided to remove Luna Forma from Nu-13 in order to add yet another Murakumo to the roster? One that will also shoot swords as her Drive?

 

But you know, all that talk of CT gave me a thought: what if BB has simply just gotten somewhat "stale"? When CT came out it was as if we'd just seen a lightning strike. It was new, fresh and flashy IP from the makers of GG and we were all glued to our monitors. But this was in 2008. It has been 6 years now and although the mechanics behind each game has changed and the characters got new fun stuff to use, using the lightning analogy above, it's like trying to make it strike twice. Ragna is still Ragna regardless whether or not Dead Spike is now his Hadouken. After 6 years, I think almost everyone knows what to expect. It's not that the "individuality" is lost. Rather we have had it ingrained into our heads so much that we simply got used to it.

 

I think the reactions of this loketest speak for themselves in that regard. Instead of adding excitement and anticipation, the general reaction is "Oh great, what did they mess up this time". Just my 2 cents really.

[TD]

Sounds legit and certainly beats the originality theory.

[XXXDC]

they all ended being much more fun to actually use in cs2 despite that.

 

Actually, nothing was "more fun" in CS2. Even CT was better than that.

[Surf]

If character individuality has been lost then whats taken it's place

 

The staleness that Luminos mentioned? Do players think too many of the characters feel similar? Or that their character has lost their "niche" throughout the iterations

[Afro-Demon]

Carl honestly hasn't lost anything.

 

You weren't there for the loss of the almighty unblockable 8D then.  But seriously, just wait out the storm of the first few loke tests.  They are always kind of silly.  I just like to stick around for the reactions for the first two.  Sounds like overall nerfs to the cast and combos is the direction, which I wouldn't mind.  Combo's are too complex for their damage in this game.  Granted, more complex combo's should yield higher damage than simple combos, but not too much more.  If a characters combo damage taken to it's highest, most complex potential reaches 100% output, then a character should be able to reach 70-85% of their potential through simple staple combos.  It's because blazblue doesn't do this that the flow slows down quite a bit when one person reaches a 6K combo from a low starter in the corner.  I like complex combo's as well, but the reward distinguished between a simple combo and a 42 hit combo is often too huge in this game.

[Luminos564]

If character individuality has been lost then whats taken it's place

 

The staleness that Luminos mentioned? Do players think too many of the characters feel similar? Or that their character has lost their "niche" throughout the iterations

 

I'd say it's more the latter. If you think about it, we've not had 1 year without BB since 2009. We've always gotten either the next installment, a balance patch or an updated version. It might just be overexposure. And then you add in the other fighters that have been churned out alongside it and I can see where things start blurring. I'm not one to give Capcom any points, but maybe they had the right to claim that the fighting game market is so overpopulated.

[BlackYakuzu94]

I'd say it's more the latter. If you think about it, we've not had 1 year without BB since 2009. We've always gotten either the next installment, a balance patch or an updated version. It might just be overexposure. And then you add in the other fighters that have been churned out alongside it and I can see where things start blurring. I'm not one to give Capcom any points, but maybe they had the right to claim that the fighting game market is so overpopulated.

 

 

But then people complain how stale the game is when it doesn't get any balances patches.

 

 

We're just going through the motions of a long standing fighter I guess.

[TD]

If character individuality has been lost then whats taken it's place

The staleness that Luminos mentioned? Do players think too many of the characters feel similar? Or that their character has lost their "niche" throughout the iterations

It just got boring. As said it's the same old same old every year for 5 years. Next year we get 3 new characters and a new mechanic.

Ironically it's staying original to ct by time looping for real with each new iteration. When cp2 comes out yay celica will be fun for a while and the will be hate and people will win tourneys and before you know it cp extend will be the most balanced version of bb ever. And on and on...

One thing is for certain. Most characters in this game have stayed original, and to say otherwise is, quite simply, batshit. Sorry, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I just don't see at all how this is true in any form.

[Luminos564]

 

But then people complain how stale the game is when it doesn't get any balances patches.

 

We're just going through the motions of a long standing fighter I guess.

 

You can't please everybody. People will complain no matter what ASW does. If there's one thing people learned once the internet took off, it's that it enables them to have their voice be heard. And by Yog-Sothoth, someone's got to agree with it.

 

I think you and TD got the idea. We're now going through the routine of a new BB. And that's the thing: it has become routine. We hear they're adding new stuff in, we hype for the characters added, we play it for a time until next year when we hear news of a new BB and repeat the process. I think Mori's looking for that spark that launched CT. I dunno if he'll find it, but it'd be nice if he did. While I still love BB and the new stuff does excite me, the excitement is not long-lasting like it was in 2008 where getting the opportunity to play BB literally plagued my mind 24/7.

[Errol]

Tweaking this translation a little because it was off and people are talking about it.  There's nothing about the characters having lost their concept or individuality, just that they're focusing on that as they make changes.

 

"I'd like to ask in what direction your heading with the 2.0 changes"

 

Kato:

This might sound bad, but we don't really emphasize balance that much.  If you think too much about the end result, it is hard for characters to have strong concepts and individuality.  This time we are making adjustments around those points.  We don't like to dictate that a character fights in this particular way, and would like for the players to play around and figure that out for themselves.

 

Mori: "Because Arcsystem focuses on (creating) the characters' indivuality, we aim for an outcome in which the players will play and think it's fun rather than adjusting balance. Doesn't playing S Tier characters, which is how players commonly call the stronger characters, give you a good feeling hahaha. Because we don't intentionally make adjustments to make characters stronger or weaker, we first think about having people have fun playing the character and we think that in addition to that we should add various adjustments in order to keep the characters balanced."

[Airk]

A sense of "individuality" was lost? Oh Mori, you card. Is that why you decided to remove Luna Forma from Nu-13 in order to add yet another Murakumo to the roster? One that will also shoot swords as her Drive?

 

But you know, all that talk of CT gave me a thought: what if BB has simply just gotten somewhat "stale"? When CT came out it was as if we'd just seen a lightning strike. It was new, fresh and flashy IP from the makers of GG and we were all glued to our monitors. But this was in 2008. It has been 6 years now and although the mechanics behind each game has changed and the characters got new fun stuff to use, using the lightning analogy above, it's like trying to make it strike twice. Ragna is still Ragna regardless whether or not Dead Spike is now his Hadouken. After 6 years, I think almost everyone knows what to expect. It's not that the "individuality" is lost. Rather we have had it ingrained into our heads so much that we simply got used to it.

That's a great theory except that everyone is looking at CT through massively rose colored glasses; Most of what I remember from back then is people bitching about how much BB sucked compared to Guilty Gear.

 

I think the reactions of this loketest speak for themselves in that regard. Instead of adding excitement and anticipation, the general reaction is "Oh great, what did they mess up this time". Just my 2 cents really.

I'm just gonna buck the trend and be pleased with mine so far.

Errol's translation makes a ton more sense.

[White Man]

But you know, all that talk of CT gave me a thought: what if BB has simply just gotten somewhat "stale"? When CT came out it was as if we'd just seen a lightning strike. It was new, fresh and flashy IP from the makers of GG and we were all glued to our monitors. But this was in 2008. It has been 6 years now and although the mechanics behind each game has changed and the characters got new fun stuff to use, using the lightning analogy above, it's like trying to make it strike twice. Ragna is still Ragna regardless whether or not Dead Spike is now his Hadouken. After 6 years, I think almost everyone knows what to expect. It's not that the "individuality" is lost. Rather we have had it ingrained into our heads so much that we simply got used to it.

 

I think the reactions of this loketest speak for themselves in that regard. Instead of adding excitement and anticipation, the general reaction is "Oh great, what did they mess up this time". Just my 2 cents really.

 

Solid points.  I think a huge part of the reason why BB seems to have lost its luster is that we've just been bombarded with so many new revisions since the series debuted.  All joking aside, seven versions of a game in six years is insane.  It became industry-wide jokes about how Street Fighter 2 and Guilty Gear XX were getting whored out with new versions, and neither of those games came anywhere close to what's happened with BB.  When you've got new revisions coming out less than a year apart, it drains a lot of your motivation to keep playing because you know most of what you learn is going to be useless in ten months.  Then of course there's the money issue...

Also, as others have pointed out, the developers' tendency to take such wildly different approaches to character/system balance with each new version casts the impression they don't have a clue what they're doing.  That probably isn't the case, but when every new set of patch notes makes half the community go "WTF?!" then something is wrong.

[Surf]

 

Kato:

This might sound bad, but we don't really emphasize balance that much.  If you think too much about the end result, it is hard for characters to have strong concepts and individuality.  This time we are making adjustments around those points.  We don't like to dictate that a character fights in this particular way, and would like for the players to play around and figure that out for themselves.

 

 

When I read this I thought of Bullet and her new changes. Bullet as she is now is pretty straight forward and it just seemed like "you play this character like this and this is the best way". With ending in nothing but xD > Safejump over and over again. She almost had no other way to end her combos. For me, playing her got stale fast

 

But her new changes look interesting and she has more options over how she wants to work her combos.

 

Then I think what Kato says over again and think of Kagura. A character they've stripped oki options and combo routes from. Forcing your options to be more and more limited with him and solidifying an almost single "way to play him". And the shits not fun

[the kusanagi slayer]

 

 

 

You can't please everybody. People will complain no matter what ASW does. If there's one thing people learned once the internet took off, it's that it enables them to have their voice be heard. And by Yog-Sothoth, someone's got to agree with it.

 

I think you and TD got the idea. We're now going through the routine of a new BB. And that's the thing: it has become routine. We hear they're adding new stuff in, we hype for the characters added, we play it for a time until next year when we hear news of a new BB and repeat the process. I think Mori's looking for that spark that launched CT. I dunno if he'll find it, but it'd be nice if he did. While I still love BB and the new stuff does excite me, the excitement is not long-lasting like it was in 2008 where getting the opportunity to play BB literally plagued my mind 24/7.

 

Got to agree with you there. As much as it pains me, because Blazblue is up there in at least my top 5 favorite series's of all time, i do think the excitement isn't as good as when i first got into it, which for me was Extend. I mean i'm super hyped for Celica-Chan and Lamb Chop, but i was that way with Terumi too, and while i still love him, he's not as fun as he used to be, and even if he was, i went from playing it everyday since launch, to now barely even touching it. I'm honestly looking forward to this patch, just because as much as these changes (Even though there totally going to be changed, or most anyway) are stupid, at least it's interesting, and i'm very curious about all this new stuff being added.

[Yaaay]

Tweaking this translation a little because it was off and people are talking about it.  There's nothing about the characters having lost their concept or individuality, just that they're focusing on that as they make changes.

 

"I'd like to ask in what direction your heading with the 2.0 changes"

 

Kato:

This might sound bad, but we don't really emphasize balance that much.  If you think too much about the end result, it is hard for characters to have strong concepts and individuality.  This time we are making adjustments around those points.  We don't like to dictate that a character fights in this particular way, and would like for the players to play around and figure that out for themselves.

 

Mori: "Because Arcsystem focuses on (creating) the characters' indivuality, we aim for an outcome in which the players will play and think it's fun rather than adjusting balance. Doesn't playing S Tier characters, which is how players commonly call the stronger characters, give you a good feeling hahaha. Because we don't intentionally make adjustments to make characters stronger or weaker, we first think about having people have fun playing the character and we think that in addition to that we should add various adjustments in order to keep the characters balanced."

 

Thank you for correcting my translation. I'm kind of new to translating stuff and I have never translated something to English before, so I really appreciate someone double checking and correcting any mistakes. I'll be more careful when I translate next time. 

[Dreiko]

Actually, nothing was "more fun" in CS2. Even CT was better than that.

Completely disagree about that. Bang and Ragna both were much more varied and interesting to use. Makoto wasn't quite as stupid as Rachel in CT was either. Barrier defense.