Kokonoe unescapable corner unblockable for a part of the cast

[Eshi]

But it's not broken that she has the potential to win the round in a single hit because it's hard to execute is what you are saying? Surely there is no player in the whole world that has the execution to consistently pull of a tricky combo like that so I guess you are right.

hell, it's not even tricky at all! just hold down the buttons and the buffer system turns the follow-up's one frame links into five frame links. If you can't hit two five frame links for the 6k combo then fighting games are not for you. Or maybe three five frame links for the overdrive combo that disables their burst. Cool character, right? Edited November 20, 2013 by Eshi

[Justice7541]

I think the frame buffer is only 3f now. And that only applies to doing links on the first frame after recovery, it's not going to help with the black hole > 3c pickup where it's possible to do it too early.

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[Eshi]

I think the frame buffer is only 3f now. And that only applies to doing links on the first frame after recovery, it's not going to help with the black hole > 3c pickup where it's possible to do it too early.

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It's not possible to do early, if you do a move in between black hole and 3C that takes the exactly right number of frames. That's why it's two links and not one. I don't play kokonoe but I'm pretty sure it's black hole > 22B > 3C and you get it right every time. For overdrive I think it's black hole > 5A > OD > 5B. Edited November 20, 2013 by Eshi

[Pen_Ninja]

Bananaken's example uses 22B > 3C. In the comments he mentions that he thinks you need to do both moves ASAP or 3C will be too late. This means that the 3 frame buffer should help out just fine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlgFRomUHks

5A > OD > 5B sounds like a terrible idea though... Why would you not just black hole > overdrive > 3C? That way you don't have some crappy 5A messing with your proration and you also get double the OD time than if you OD cancelled.

[PhantomIndex]

We nagged them for Kokonoe and now they will throw this at us for payback :P

[Eshi]

Bananaken's example uses 22B > 3C. In the comments he mentions that he thinks you need to do both moves ASAP or 3C will be too late. This means that the 3 frame buffer should help out just fine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlgFRomUHks

5A > OD > 5B sounds like a terrible idea though... Why would you not just black hole > overdrive > 3C? That way you don't have some crappy 5A messing with your proration and you also get double the OD time than if you OD cancelled.

The 5A whiffs... It's only used for the frame perfect timing, same as 22B > 3C. OD > 3C is not frame perfect. Edited November 21, 2013 by Eshi

[ElegantShadow]

Yeah. The only thing that can save you is burst or hope the Kokonoe doesn't know a good combo off it.

Wait. So, Nu can't even Act Parser Zwei out of that set up in Luna Forma?

We nagged them for Kokonoe and now they will throw this at us for payback :P

That seems to be the case. Well, at the very least everything should be patched by the time of the American release, hopefully. :I

That's going to be my new Signature, by the way. Thanks.

[(SWE)KGB]

she goes forward a bit but she loses distance on it because of the super then she gets hit by the 22b and gets sucked into the super

[PhantomIndex]

Wait. So, Nu can't even Act Parser Zwei out of that set up in Luna Forma?

That seems to be the case. Well, at the very least everything should be patched by the time of the American release, hopefully. :I

That's going to be my new Signature, by the way. Thanks.

I'm fine by that

[(SWE)KGB]

hmm someone found an escape that works delay tech roll into ib run it seems to work for everyone

[Justice7541]

If that's true then I guess Kokonoe's back down to bottom tier.

Was a good run I guess

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[mAc Chaos]

hmm someone found an escape that works delay tech roll into ib run it seems to work for everyone

> hakumen

> run

we need a video of this

and she still has great normals, just not an auto win button

[(SWE)KGB]

should be able to do ib kisshu

[(SWE)KGB]

oh well it wasn't good enough yet back to the drawing board one more thing too beat and then it might be inescapable seems tricky and i am a bit stumped to be honest maybe i can place the black hole closer to the 22b so you can't escape it...

Edited November 21, 2013 by (SWE)KGB

[Airk]

If that's true then I guess Kokonoe's back down to bottom tier.

Was a good run I guess

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Oh yeah, totally. Insane normals and massive damage. Definitely bottom tier without an inescapable unblockable setup, since all the rest of the top tier characters have those...

[Justice7541]

Other top tiers have other things. Terumi has stupid high damage and insane normals but most people have him pegged at mid tier just cause he has to jump to get over projectiles.

It's a lot of different factors is what I'm saying.

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[(SWE)KGB]

kokonoe has pretty insane things excluding the unblockable death ball to be honest

like her 22b has far too little recovery and startup when you think about how much space it controls and for how long

and her drive can screw with any kind of spacing worse than rachel's wind in ct against arakune

[SoWL]

Other top tiers have other things. Terumi has stupid high damage and insane normals but most people have him pegged at mid tier just cause he has to jump to get over projectiles.

This is off-topic, but Terumi's problems don't end there (actually, he has Messenga to go through projectiles). It's that he's extremely dependent on meter, but he can't get it unless he hits the opponent, and his mix-ups are not good enough to do it reliably.

[Diar]

How does the ruling on a ban for kokonoe even work out? Clearly her potential is very comparable to ST akuma where both of them can shut down the whole cast options. This whole situation on banning her is causing unnecessary drama

[Eshi]

How does the ruling on a ban for kokonoe even work out? Clearly her potential is very comparable to ST akuma where both of them can shut down the whole cast options. This whole situation on banning her is causing unnecessary drama

Dustloop is just a website, not a tournament standard. It's really up to individual TO's whether or not they want to ban Kokonoe. I personally want her banned immediately - many people want to see tournament placings before that happens. Considering how ridiculously more powerful she's gotten in a few weeks, it's really only a matter of time though. Let's hope we get a small balance patch for her before that happens.

[TD]

kokonoe has everything that makes each character unique, without the huge risk but will all the rewards. she's a mixup/rushdown/trap/footsies character. great normals, specials disrupt every character, you cant zone (graviton), cant rushdown (banish ray), cant turtle (fireball). in the neutral there isnt any one strategy to beat her. if most character's gameplans are reduced to punishing her mistakes, something is definitely wrong there.

if she pressures you have to deal with high/low/throw/crossup/IOH, resets are very strong with several reverse gatlings, everything leads into good damage/meter/positioning, fantastic oki everywhere, including all the above + a unblockable 5k.

her defense is a f1 tele that crosses up, spanking easy input for maximum mashing, good positioning. gdlk dp in superball, doesn't go away if hit (seriously!?). good backdash. these 3 make for one good ass defense.

l dunno, she seems op. shes not just good at everything, she's really good. at everything. something's gonna happen.

[Errol]

I say get rid of her. I hate the idea of waiting until after some results come in. There are extremely high odds that that will poison the water of a game that a lot of us are hoping will be big in America. Let's be honest, them even releasing a character this broken has soiled a lot already and I'm really disappointed in them.

[ElvenShadow]

Are people ACTUALLY considering banning her or is this just a bunch of whining because she is top tier? It's not like we have never seen a good character with unblockable setups before ::cougheddiecough::

She IS going to be added to arcade right? They won't ban her in arcade if she is, I can guarantee... shes no where near the level of ST Akuma lol

[Airk]

Are people ACTUALLY considering banning her or is this just a bunch of whining because she is top tier? It's not like we have never seen a good character with unblockable setups before ::cougheddiecough::

She IS going to be added to arcade right? They won't ban her in arcade if she is, I can guarantee... shes no where near the level of ST Akuma lol

Odds of Kokonoe getting added to arcade without getting hit with the nerf bat? Basically zero.

[AchedSphinx]

Wait. So, Nu can't even Act Parser Zwei out of that set up in Luna Forma?

It would be possible if Nu's Act Parser had invul start-up, she would be able to pass right on through. But yeah, we're eating unblockables for days.