Elochai Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 Okusan responded to my tweet about doing 5A > DP and he more or less confirmed that it's an option against Randomizer. I guess we ended up getting a charge version of Labrys DP . My last hope for this move is that you can combo into it.
Luminos564 Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 My last hope for this move is that you can combo into it. Last I heard; yes you can combo from it. But you need to be both in the corner and you need to go off of 5A but the timing is incredibly strict.
Dazardz Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 We can surely combo off of it, but he said combo into it. I think that's what he meant... like setups and all that.
Luminos564 Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 We can surely combo off of it, but he said combo into it. I think that's what he meant... like setups and all that. Yeah, I only noticed now (that'll teach me to make replies late at night). AFAIK, no combo that ends with Randomizer or has it during the string exists. I know the glitch, kinda sorta incorporated it but that is gone now.
Dazardz Posted March 6, 2014 Posted March 6, 2014 Well I saw Randomizer get used, and that Negative Penalty didn't last long. Seems like when you land Randomizer, you gotta get that one special hit real quickly.
Elochai Posted March 6, 2014 Posted March 6, 2014 Which is why it's kind of silly that, if anything, you're only comboing off of it with your opponent's back to the corner. It pushes the move into further obscurity. Impractical input (arguably so), guard point instead of invul, and it's not a tool for the middle of combos, even those in the corner. It's all observation so far, and thusly I could be totally wrong, but this move is not looking good. Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
Luminos564 Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 I think it's time to face the fact that, despite it giving Lizzie the honor of being the only character capable of inflicting Negative Penalty, it (like most of her moves) is overshadowed by pretty much anything. It can't function as a reversal. It's input would suggest that it is comboable but it isn't unless in a very specific set-up and only from it, not in the middle of. Nor does it give Lizzie that extra layer of safety when she inevitably looses Thanny for a duration. Judging from the last batch of vids I've seen, people are at least attempting to use it. But there have only been 2 attempts and only 1 was a successful catch (which was promptly snuffed out). But not everything looks too bad. I've been watching very intently and, despite the loss of multi-hits and recovery, (A) Maziodyne is a very good poking tool. That (Awk.) Magarudyne>JD could present an interesting way to end those combos since (Awk.) Magarudyne is not great for extending combos and damage. The "nameless" Lizzie was also pretty damn good, capitalizing on whatever opportunity they had (my heartrate quickened the moment they were reduced to a sliver of health only to get back in the fight with SB Diarahan). Granted it's hard to create opportunities with Lizzie but hey, losing only to a PerShoNa is pretty damn good.
Elochai Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 I share the sentiments about 236A. The recovery is faster I think; in the mirror match, the second Liz couldn't punish 236A with their own 236A (or the startup is slower/the other player mis-timed his punish). If anything really stood out to me though, it's j.C CH. This player got 3K or so off of it, even if for 25 meter, is still kinda nice imo. I'm thinking that throw/j.C will become a mixup, since there's reward off of j.C now. There's more reason to use this move vs say Mitsuru now too, for the same reason of getting damage off of it (j.B being low profiled usually lead to Liz getting bopped, and j.C doesn't have this problem).
OmnixTSC Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 If anything really stood out to me though, it's j.C CH. This player got 3K or so off of it, even if for 25 meter, is still kinda nice imo. I'm thinking that throw/j.C will become a mixup, since there's reward off of j.C now. There's more reason to use this move vs say Mitsuru now too, for the same reason of getting damage off of it (j.B being low profiled usually lead to Liz getting bopped, and j.C doesn't have this problem). This was exactly what I was going to bring up. As a tool for mixups and far ranged neutral, j.C is looking like it'll open up some options for us. I'm thinking that instant air j.C is going to be one of our main punishment tools with the amount of damage I'm expecting (even though the combos we've seen were short and/or dropped). I was happy to see the prominent Liz in the videos Elochai linked actually playing neutral and spacing Liz's normals properly. It's like somebody *gasps* actually understands how to use the character! All joking aside, the combos were a bit lacking, but this player did really well. His playstyle is a bit different from Damosu, so I wonder who it is?
Elochai Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 The commentator actually says his name. Sounds like "Kouzezka".
OmnixTSC Posted March 10, 2014 Posted March 10, 2014 Setora looks like a fairly new player. A lot of his/her habits are reminding me of month 1-2 netplay Liz players (back when I hadn't started using Liz). The best part was seeing people walk into 5Cs that weren't frame traps and trying to jump out of 5C/2C pressure. I don't expect many players to know how to deal with that when Liz is practically nonexistent over there.
OmnixTSC Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 So when I migrate to the Yukari forums...I want none of you to say anything.
Dazardz Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 So when I migrate to the Yukari forums...I want none of you to say anything. Wha-!?
Luminos564 Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 So when I migrate to the Yukari forums...I want none of you to say anything. Wha-!? He means, he's likely not going to play Elizabeth mainly and instead focusing on Yukari. Can't say that I blame him. I plan on learning Akihiko in the meantime myself unless someone at ATLUS adds Makoto/P3MC to the game. As much as I want to be good with the current P4U2 Lizzie, I feel like I simply can't measure up enough to actually win. Childish though it may sound, but I do want to win on occasion and I feel like I simply can't do that in this game with her as she is now. Not that the realization is any less "painful"...
Dazardz Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 I guess it sucks to lose all the time. So Omni is with Yukari, Elochai may be with Aki, your with Aki, and I'm with Aki. What about Bace, if he does think about maining a diff char? All I know is that he's probably gonna be finding as much as he can with Liz, if it'll make her a good character anyway.
Elochai Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 We are not Paul . With that being said, I'm not switching mains, ever. Bace is willing to try Liz before he switches too. While tech is certainly a pressing issue, if Liz can win with her current set of tools, I'm fine with that. Plus, we also have to keep in mind that there's a lot of stuff we're not seeing, so there might be really good tech that we're unaware of. After all, our only knowledge of this character is based off of what's recorded and on YouTube/Niconico.
Dazardz Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 We are not Paul . With that being said, I'm not switching mains, ever. Bace is willing to try Liz before he switches too. While tech is certainly a pressing issue, if Liz can win with her current set of tools, I'm fine with that. Plus, we also have to keep in mind that there's a lot of stuff we're not seeing, so there might be really good tech that we're unaware of. After all, our only knowledge of this character is based off of what's recorded and on YouTube/Niconico. Is this because Liz is your waifu? And I don't think that because of your avy and sig Yeah, I'm still playing Liz. I just don't think I'll main her. Unless I see something on youtube that is AWESOME.
OmnixTSC Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 I'll be honest. If we're only worried about playing the US most of the time, it won't matter if some of us still play Liz unless we move to an area with a stacked tourney. The US scene blows as far as skill level goes, haha. *Cough*A-anyways...Liz's frame data is absolutely terrible. Bace isn't going to give up on her without trying, and neither am I. We just...don't see anything there, especially not after seeing the frame data. We've talked about it a bit and things are just not looking good
Luminos564 Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 I guess it sucks to lose all the time. So Omni is with Yukari, Elochai may be with Aki, your with Aki, and I'm with Aki. What about Bace, if he does think about maining a diff char? All I know is that he's probably gonna be finding as much as he can with Liz, if it'll make her a good character anyway. We are not Paul . With that being said, I'm not switching mains, ever. Bace is willing to try Liz before he switches too. While tech is certainly a pressing issue, if Liz can win with her current set of tools, I'm fine with that. Plus, we also have to keep in mind that there's a lot of stuff we're not seeing, so there might be really good tech that we're unaware of. After all, our only knowledge of this character is based off of what's recorded and on YouTube/Niconico. Well at this point in time, learning Akihiko is simply a means to an end. I need someone simpler with a better chance to win than Lizzie since I'm trying to drop my bad habits that I picked up while playing her. If I can manage that, I'll go back to her eventually. I mentioned this in another thread, but I love playing Lizzie because she is fun. Enough to make me not care about playing any other character. But that fun has also effectively barred me from being able to approach anyone else, so I need to grow past it. That said, I'd like to know why the minimum damage for SB Ghastly Wail is that much lower, despite costing a lot more than either C/D versions? Does it actually increase if you rotate the stick enough?
OmnixTSC Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 Post please ~ Not allowed to yet. You'll have to wait for the translations.
Elochai Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 Not allowed to yet. You'll have to wait for the translations. B-but... I wanna be among the frame data club too ! (it's alright, I can wait lol) Well at this point in time, learning Akihiko is simply a means to an end. I need someone simpler with a better chance to win than Lizzie since I'm trying to drop my bad habits that I picked up while playing her. If I can manage that, I'll go back to her eventually. I mentioned this in another thread, but I love playing Lizzie because she is fun. Enough to make me not care about playing any other character. But that fun has also effectively barred me from being able to approach anyone else, so I need to grow past it. That said, I'd like to know why the minimum damage for SB Ghastly Wail is that much lower, despite costing a lot more than either C/D versions? Does it actually increase if you rotate the stick enough? I'm actually very curious as to what habits you could've picked up while playing Elizabeth. Personally, I like to mash 2B. It doesn't really carry over to when I play Akihiko though (wherein I like to do as many 6ABs as possible). Secondly, I'm also curious as to why all these Elizabeth players sub Akihiko.
Luminos564 Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 I'm actually very curious as to what habits you could've picked up while playing Elizabeth. Too many to list here but the most prominent ones: -Mashing naked 5Cs. -Throwing out repeated Maziodyne at long range. -ALWAYS going for a Ghastly Wail reversal as an option (then again, what AM I to use as a reversal; the cruddy FA?) -Not utilizing 5B or JB. -Not actually doing combos or any pressure as I played very passive-aggressively with her. The only thing I've ever been able to do under normal circumstances was 5AAA-Mabufudyne(A)-AoA. Secondly, I'm also curious as to why all these Elizabeth players sub Akihiko. B-but you recommended him to me after I asked how to unlearn Lizzie in that "How to choose a main thread". I gave a list between Chie, Mitsuru, Akihiko or Yukari and your suggestion (among with others) was him. Akihiko is really mostly convenient since he's changed very little in P4U2 and I can actually practice him in P4A, something which I've come to realize.
Elochai Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 B-but you recommended him to me after I asked how to unlearn Lizzie in that "How to choose a main thread". I gave a list between Chie, Mitsuru, Akihiko or Yukari and your suggestion (among with others) was him. Akihiko is really mostly convenient since he's changed very little in P4U2 and I can actually practice him in P4A, something which I've come to realize. Well, this isn't limited to you, there're 3 (4? dunno about Dazardz) Liz players who also play Aki: you, me, and Omnix. I still stand by the opinion I gave in the main thread though. Kinda off-topic, but did you only wanna play him because he hasn't changed much? Don't see why you wouldn't use jB btw. jB is only second to 2B lol.
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