[FB] The Epyon General Discussion: Get in, whip everything

[LionHeartx]

Gundam Epyon

Pilot - Zechs Marquise

Health - 750?

A pure melee suit with no projectiles. Struggles to get in but when he does he can do massive damage and do it quickly.

Known movelist

[a] homing dash

[ab] heat rod (whip with different variations depending on direction)

[bc] special movement options (different variations depending on direction)

Edited January 26, 2014 by LionHeartx

[Ryno]

Is Epyon really as bad as everyone says? If so, that's a huge bummer to wait for your favorite suit for so long, and then they add it in an unusable state. Melee suits are already bad in trial mode and arcade mode, but you could use them online. Not only did melee suits get a nerf going into FB, they made Epyon a 3000 cost with 0 ranged options.

[TransientFaith]

It's mostly meta. To quote the EXVSFB change list

[*]Overall the game is actually more ranged based compared to the previous game due to map size increase and differences in bursts.

Epyon has really strong options when you're in whip range since it hits fast and leads into a good combo. However, you will be hard pressed to find yourself in those situations esp. since the risk of chasing is very high (large maps, positioning in general)

His position is also really weird. A 3k that can't really front, but is a very expensive back. Like an expensive dragon from vanilla with no neutral space control.

All things said, if you do manage to corner somebody, your in for a treat. Even more so with his AMAZING super.

Edited January 24, 2014 by TransientFaith

[Mightfo]

he's b-. ( http://exvsrank.ninja-x.jp/exvsfb_30.html ) that's better than most suits were in vanilla EXVS. so, that depends on whether you think B- is unviable- in which case you'd also say that stargazer, goldframe, gaia, throne drei, etc are unviable.

also, its not really as simple as "melee suits are worse in fb" considering that xenon, dsh, gp02, god are quite good. of course, these arent pure melee like epyon is.

[brett_]

I've updated the documents in question, and I'm sure you guys knew what I meant to say anyways, but "and differences in extreme attacks." was meant to refer to bursts, not actual extreme supers hahaha. carry on :P

[Setsuna Yuki]

They should give it auto Mobile Doll assist below 200~250 HP in Maxi Boost. It would REALLY help.

[ShinsoBEAM]

PSA your supposed to stay away from Epyon not close range against him.

Edited February 2, 2014 by ShinsoBEAM

[imDraxx]

I think it's worth mentioning that Epyon has a good presence on the field as "that one suit you always avoid," and you take full advantage of that by forcing the enemy team to move (preferably into a corner). This allows your back player to take shots at them since you're giving them limited safe movement options.

I know this is something all front suits do, but this is probably Epyon's main strategy here instead of trying to get meaty melee damage.

[Skillkill107]

Or if you wanna play him as a super expensive rear, regard him as, the suit everyone ignores until it's too late. Most people understand that Epyon has an effective range of about his whip's range but most players are vaguely unaware of how quickly he can get in and out of a fight using Zero system. When you're just neutraling, leave Zero system off so they get comfortable to your usual speed, tap it on and quickly use Super vernier to smash in a few quick hits before whipping and running out. The longer you pull your fancy combos, the longer your opponent's partner has to notice your loud manly screams of justice.

[Tryflozn]

I actually main Epyon, if you guys would like, I can

try to do a break down on this MS. For anyone that is

interested, here is a complete break down of what I

know. Please correct me if you see anything wrong in

what I have written.

Epyon

Armor:720

Cost: 3000

======================================================

His move list consist of the following

======================================================

[A] Homing Dash

[N+B] Slash frontal

[2+B] Heat Rod Stun

[8+B] Forward Arial Jump Thrust

[4+B] A Slash beginning from the left ending to the right

[6+B] A Slash beginning from the Right ending to the Left

[N+AB] Heat Rod Uppercut

[2+AB] Heat Rod Uppercut

[8+AB] Heat Rod knock Down

[4+AB] Heat Rod Swing (Starting from the right ending at the left)

[6+AB] Heat Rod Swing (Starting from the Left ending at the Right)

[AC] Zero System

[N+BC] Arial Stationary Reverse Flip

[2+BC] Arial Stationary Reverse Flip

[8+BC] Arial Forward Flip

[4+BC] Left Movement Evasive Action

[6+BC] Right Movement Evasive Action

[8/2/6 + BC > B] Wide Stun Slash with the Blade to the left

[4 + BC > B] Wide Stun Slash with the Blade to the Right

[b > N+BC] Finisher Type: Wide Slash

[b > 2+BC] Finisher Type: Arial Combo

[b > 8+BC] Finisher Type: Carte Wheel

[b > 4/6+BC] Finisher Type: Nock Down Combo

======================================================

Quick Summary Of Epyon

======================================================

Epyon is a really unique and difficult MS to use. His

actions go as fast as you can input the commands.

In order to make him slash extremely fast, the player

is required to use Homing Dash as a chain within his

combos.

Homing Dash does not only allow you to approach a

target in high speed, but it also allows the player to

use it as a chain to continue a combo. You can chain

Homing Dash to either or [AB]. Another unique

feature that Epyon has is that Epyon can continue to

combo with Homing Dash even in Over Heat. As long as

Epyon can hit something, he can continue to move

without boost.

Also All of Epyon attacks are actually counted as

melee, so when going against something like 00 Quanta,

All of Epyon’s attack can actually pass through

Quanta’s shield. However in return, going against

something like Master, Master’s [2+B] counters all of

Epyon’s actions even the Heat Rod, due to the fact

that it is counted as a melee move.

======================================================

Epyon’s Mechanics

======================================================

Zero System Mechanics

---------------------

In Zero System, Epyon’s Speed, Range, and Damage are

increased! But for requiring this buff, Epyon’s Boost

Duration has been shortened as sacrifice. However with

Range and Speed increase Epyon priority for his attack

that requires his sword are also increased. The Heat

Rod Range and Speed apparently stays the same; however

it does gain the damage bonus that the Zero System

gives off.

Also you might want to note down, when activating Zero

System, you can chain or some other attack upon

activating the Zero System mode. By doing this, the

player can abuse Epyon’s regular Boost consumption

instead of having it all eaten away by the Zero System.

Also keep in mind, if you want to have high

survivability rate, most average players will turn off

the Zero System, so that they would have more boost

to play defensive. The moment a player goes offensive

you will see the Zero System Activate.

Chase Mechanic

--------------

Epyon's [8+B] allows him to attack while leaping

forward. This certain attack is designed for him to

continue to move forward and dodge in a straight line.

When an average melee MS goes into close combat they

would usually have to curve around to avoid

projectiles fired at them. For Epyon, he can actually

hop over them with [8+B].

Of course learning how to use [8+B] and [A] together

will make Epyon a more aggressive front and allowing

you to approach a target at a quicker rate.

You may also use [8/2/6/4/N + BC > B] for traveling

long distances, as it does reserve boost when you use

this particular move to travel

Dodge Mechanic

--------------

Epyon also has the ability to avoid on coming attacks

with [2/8/4/6/N + BC] However, using the Wide Stun

Slash right after it, is kind of a gamble as this

attack makes you go straight at an MS. If the MS

decided to fire at you, you will most likely run

straight into it.

A player can also abuse his Mobile Armor mode to

quickly change directions. In order to do this

technique, the player needs to be in MA mode and

then re-transform into MA mode again in the opposite

direction. If done correctly, Epyon will go the

opposite way avoiding all on coming fire that was

originally aimed at him.

Another thing to keep in mind, is that even in Over

Heat, Epyon can still use [8/2/6/4/N + BC > B] to

travel. However, after using it the 1st time in

Over Heat, it does take some time to be able to use

it a 2nd time in the same Over Heat scenario.

Counter Mechanics

-----------------

If a player can predict the target’s next attack

and see them wanting to use a melee attack,

the Wide Stun Slash will help you counter them

completely. This attack will not counter a counter,

as this attack is not a real counter like other

MSs that have [2+B] as a counter. So please do not

use this move and fly into a player's counter.

Epyon also has the Heat Rod to help him counter

other MSs that out priority him in melee combat.

However, the player needs to understand the speed

and distance that the Heat Rod is most effective in.

If you are unable to beat a melee MS head on, whip

them with the Heat Rod and chain Homing Dash to

combo off the action you just achieved.

His [8+AB] Heat Rod knock Down has some

similarities with the [8+B] Forward Arial Jump

Thrust. His [8+AB] does a little hop that can make

him go over projectiles, but this move is actually not

as good at chasing as [8+B]. Instead, this attack is

good for defensive purposes, as it allows the players

to avoid an attack and counter whip the approaching

target and knock them down instantly.

Also keep in mind when using the Heat Rod, it also

has the ability to denigrate Beam type projectiles.

The Heat rod is unable to block Gerobi size beams,

but is able to shield you from smaller projectiles.

Another thing to note about the Heat Rod is that,

it is able to hit targets that are considered

cloaked. Since the Heat rod actually doesn’t

target, this attack only swings in the direction

that you are looking at. So it is actually

possible to attack a cloaked target with the

Heat Rod and even chain the Heat rod to

continue to attack on the same cloaked target.

Combo Mechanic

--------------

Epyon is able to hit a target up to 13 times with

input. I will further break down the rest of

his attack that assist you in range or close range

combat. This list below will show how many hit’s

each attack actually affects the Down Cap before

the target is completely Knocked Down.

Heat Rod Uppercut = 6 hits

Heat Rod Swing = 5 hits

Wide Stun Slash = 4 hits

Heat Rod Stun = 3 hits

If you keep those values in mind, you can try to

maximize Epyon’s damage capacity to its fullest.

Just make sure on the 13th hit that you are using

a finisher, if you can accomplish that, you are

truly pushing his damage as far as it can be.

======================================================

Epyon’s Basic Combos

======================================================

Here is a basic list of Epyon’s Combo Damages listed

from weakest to Strongest in Zero System, located

below, keep in mind that Epyon is a free style melee

type MS that can combo anyway he so chooses, so I have

only listed the most common combos you will probably

most likely see other players use:

[b > N+BC] Cancel [A > 8+B > 2+BC] = 226 Damage

Directional input Slash x13 = 230 Damage

= 044 Damage

Homing Slash x02 = 84 Damage

Homing Slash x03 = 120 Damage

Homing Slash x04 = 150 Damage

Homing Slash x05 = 170 Damage

Homing Slash x06 = 195 Damage

Homing Slash x07 = 210 Damage

Homing Slash x08 = 218 Damage

Homing Slash x09 = 226 Damage

Homing Slash x10 = 231 Damage

Homing Slash x11 = 236 Damage

Homing Slash x12 = 241 Damage

Homing Slash x13 = 245 Damage

Homing Slash x12 > N+BC = 250 Damage

Homing Slash x12 > 4/6+BC = 260 Damage

Homing Slash x12 > 2+BC = 275 Damage

Slow Homing Slash x12 > 8+BC = 320 Damage

Homing slash x12 > 8+BC At Maximum Height = 364 Damage

Homing slash x12 > 8+BC Awakening at Maximum Height = 364 Damage

======================================================

Recommended Partners For Epyon

======================================================

Believe it or not, Epyon actually is well equipped to

take care of himself. Epyon players have the ability

to move around the field at great velocity, so for

them to retreat out of combat is quiet easy. They are

also able to deal with 2v1 situation with the

mechanics mentioned above.

However you all should already be aware that it is

extremely difficult to make Epyon cover his own

partner when fronting. So as I mentioned earlier, since

Epyon is well equipped to take care of himself, his

partner shouldn’t actually need to take care of him,

instead he needs a partner that either has a high

survivability rate like Hambrabi or a partner that

can come out on top in 1v1 situation like Banshee in

Destroy Mode. So if you have something like Banshee

in Destroy mode, Epyon can keep one of the targets

juggled in the air for quite some time and allow Banshee

to demolish the other target without worry of getting

attacked from another player. This formation is one of

Epyon’s strongest formations as it keeps everyone on the

field in check, and neither opponents’ can help one another.

Edited February 18, 2014 by Tryflozn

[brett_]

My own two cents on recommended partners:

Though running a team that aims to split as its optimal play is good when it works, I don't think it's really the primary way to be building your comp. I agree that Banshee works well, but Banshee works well with practically any 3K >_>. As with Master, the common types of partners (IMO) are either dedicated ranged suits (Cherudim, Virsago, Kshatriya, Hambrabi, Gunner, Rozen, Delta), or teams to make a pseudo-double front (God, GP-02, Susa, The O etc).

The ranged suit classification usually aims for suits with good cutting ability, fast downs, map presence, and ability to capitalize, and primarily relies on the concept that if they try to mark or aim for them, it creates an opening for Epyon (this is pretty obvious in the case of Epyon/Cheru). The ability to capitalize off of landing punishes is also extremely vital, as much of the time as Epyon you may be unable to land a melee based on an advantage you have, but you can create opportunities for your partner based on the fear instilled by your superiority in the close range (forcing them out of position, overboosting, committed defense, etc). Again, this is pretty obvious to imagine / see with Cherudim. One of the big issues with Epyon is that it's very common to just lose in the damage race, due to the fact that his combos don't actually do that much damage and his cut resistance isn't very good. As such, having a back that can cut for you with confidence is extremely helpful.

Double melee teams, much like Master, end up being pretty high risk high reward, and to some extent you're starting out at a disadvantage, but since Epyon already has some bad matchups, the risk can be pretty justified. The goal is pretty simple: turn a bad matchup upside down by creating an unstable / chaotic match. Disrupting their formation and getting knockdowns allows this kind of team to move around really easily and play at their advantage, as well as making disrupting their health distribution much easier than trying to attack in an orthodox manner. Psychologically this also has a really great advantage as it aims to put your opponents outside their comfort zone.

Epyon comps are pretty similar to Master comps, except that you need to balance out some of Epyons issues such as damage racing, poor cut resistance, etc.

[Tryflozn]

I do agree with you brett, and I do see Cherudim as one of the strongest recommended supports for Epyon after discussing it with a few other people. I also understand range working with Epyon is a nice touch, but I believe it has to be a ranged MS that can take care of themselves too, as I find a partner for example like ZZ lose there HP to quickly, which makes it difficult for Epyon to be with. Especially when they die so quickly and in return not allowing Eypon to use his HP Armor to the fullest. That's what I was really trying to get at, but yes I do also find that keeping people in check is a really nice way of accomplishing victory, and I also see what you mean as you should not base your comp on that as I do see the risks, but I think I would rather have an MS that has a high survivability rate than just any range MS partnering with Epyon. However that's just what I believe in.

[crimsonstardust]

Alright while I'm waiting for my copy to come in the mail a couple of questions, is Epyon basically the same from GvGNP with just no mobile assist and in its place the zero system? I didn't see anything in the thread about this next part I wanna ask, is the zero system something you can just turn on and off without waiting for a cool down or something of those lines?

[RX-0 Banshee]

Alright while I'm waiting for my copy to come in the mail a couple of questions, is Epyon basically the same from GvGNP with just no mobile assist and in its place the zero system? I didn't see anything in the thread about this next part I wanna ask, is the zero system something you can just turn on and off without waiting for a cool down or something of those lines?

The Zero system buffs Epyon's attack damage at the cost of consuming extra boost and you can use it at any time with a button press. Between Next+ (which I still play) and EXVSFB, Epyon got nerfed BADLY in Full Boost to where you have to completely re-learn it. Gone are its Infinity Slashes and Izuna Drop finisher (though the Issen and Explosion ends are there); it's also slower than it was in Next+ (but using Zero system sort of makes up for it), so it's a suit you really have to dedicate time to learning.

Edited March 7, 2014 by RX-0 Banshee

[Sabator]

It's worth noting that no matter how much time you put into learning Epyon you will still struggle to get in and do damage against any good team.

[Tryflozn]

The Zero system buffs Epyon's attack damage at the cost of consuming extra boost and you can use it at any time with a button press. Between Next+ (which I still play) and EXVSFB, Epyon got nerfed BADLY in Full Boost to where you have to completely re-learn it. Gone are its Infinity Slashes and Izuna Drop finisher (though the Issen and Explosion ends are there); it's also slower than it was in Next+ (but using Zero system sort of makes up for it), so it's a suit you really have to dedicate time to learning.

I would also like to add that Epyon didn't really get Nerfed, he actually got Buffed in Full Boost. Saying it was nerfed would be like looking pass all the good things that were added in place, due to the fact that it had a lot of useless moves in NEXT and those moves are now replaced with a lot better and more useful ones in Full Boost and not only that the developers even designed him with the ability to allow him to actually approach a target with less effort compared to the NEXT Counter Part. But I guess nerf and buff part about him, everyone sees it differently. All I can say is, from my experience from maining both Epyons from NEXT and Full Boost, Epyon Got major buffs in Full Boost, but still not enough buffs to make him easy enough to play.

[2nd_striker]

How do you make epyon transform? Ive seen it in the arcade unlock video but cant make him do it at all

[burgerkong]

How do you make epyon transform? Ive seen it in the arcade unlock video but cant make him do it at all

 

Double tap a direction (identical motion to step) whilst boosting straight up (tapping and holding b once, not boost dashing).

 

Basically never seen an Epyon do this outside of dodging things though, so it's not super handy unless I'm missing something.

[Densuo]

Double tap a direction (identical motion to step) whilst boosting straight up (tapping and holding b once, not boost dashing).

Basically never seen an Epyon do this outside of dodging things though, so it's not super handy unless I'm missing something.

I like using Mobile armor when I really need to get away. For example if my team mate died.

[Densuo]

Which of his moves are best for enhancing cut resistance

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk

[burgerkong]

Which of his moves are best for enhancing cut resistance

 

Here's something I compiled myself.

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Yxu3gzhkT9lg0Wkdcc1jAznBIpQHHNP7-MJFT_7tbOs/edit?usp=sharing

 

It's Google translated from the JP wiki, so take it with a grain of salt, but I'm confident in the combos section and fairly confident in the moveset descriptions.

 

The combos in particular show that it's more efficient to just go straight into 2BC ender for the most part.

 

Feel free to comment if I've made a mistake or missed something, but opinions like "the combos suck" and stuff will likely be ignored, since these are directly from the JP wiki

[Densuo]

Here's something I compiled myself.

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Yxu3gzhkT9lg0Wkdcc1jAznBIpQHHNP7-MJFT_7tbOs/edit?usp=sharing

 

It's Google translated from the JP wiki, so take it with a grain of salt, but I'm confident in the combos section and fairly confident in the moveset descriptions.

 

The combos in particular show that it's more efficient to just go straight into 2BC ender for the most part.

 

Feel free to comment if I've made a mistake or missed something, but opinions like "the combos suck" and stuff will likely be ignored, since these are directly from the JP wiki

 

Nah. If I feel something sucks I should at least post WHY. I'm pretty sure anyone trying to be efficient with Epyon would prefer a comment with a point

[Densuo]

While I was messing in Practice, some notes:

As we know, when Zero System is active Boost Consumption is increased. 

 

There IS an exception. while in Mobile Armor/bird mode boost consumption is the same duration regardless of wether or not you are using Zero System or not. 

 

More notes on bird mode. 

 

while in Bird Mode 

 

[A] Heat rod does a tail wag.  Perhaps while in bird mode the tail wag maintains the heat rod property of nulling attacks? If it hits, its a knockdown.

 

 stops for an instant before dashing forward. if you are in red lock range Epyon will turn and face target and try to ram them.  if you are fast about it, you can press A to hit them with a tail wag and a knockdown

[burgerkong]

While I was messing in Practice, some notes:

As we know, when Zero System is active Boost Consumption is increased. 

 

There IS an exception. while in Mobile Armor/bird mode boost consumption is the same duration regardless of wether or not you are using Zero System or not. 

 

More notes on bird mode. 

 

while in Bird Mode 

 

[A] Heat rod does a tail wag.  Perhaps while in bird mode the tail wag maintains the heat rod property of nulling attacks? If it hits, its a knockdown.

 

 stops for an instant before dashing forward. if you are in red lock range Epyon will turn and face target and try to ram them.  if you are fast about it, you can press A to hit them with a tail wag and a knockdown

 

Regardless, from what I've seen MA Mode seems to still be next to useless.  Never seen any Epyon player transform for a legitimate reason IIRC, though I might be wrong.

 

The wiki doesn't talk about it, there are no combos leading from it, and there's next to nothing in the description for both MA Mode moves.

 

So mainly just for gimmicks and style I guess (though wagging your tail wouldn't exactly be my definition of style LOL)

[Densuo]

Regardless, from what I've seen MA Mode seems to still be next to useless.  Never seen any Epyon player transform for a legitimate reason IIRC, though I might be wrong.

 

The wiki doesn't talk about it, there are no combos leading from it, and there's next to nothing in the description for both MA Mode moves.

 

So mainly just for gimmicks and style I guess (though wagging your tail wouldn't exactly be my definition of style LOL)

 

Yeah I did it a few times to make damn sure I wasnt seeing things, I can honestly confirm and can make a video of it if need be that the consumption is indeed the same. I would say the only true benefit to MA is that you ram past the opponent so it should have some decent cut resistance.

 

I suppose the best situation for MA Mode would be you are in a situation where Zero is active and your partner got destroyed and you need to get out of there, instead of Deactivate cc  you can just MA and you're gone.

 

---

This suit has a real tough time. you have to really know how to move.