[Xrd] Bedman Gameplay Discussion

[Tiamat]

The timing to follow up with a normal on corner throw is eating me alive lol.  I end up just going for Task B instead.  Anyone know what a good indicator to follow up in time is?

 

You just have to get used to how long the throw lasts before you can act again.  Maybe try for right as he's bringing his hand back?  If you're having trouble it's easier to go to 5K than to f.S.  5K 5H(1) 236H seems to be a fairly reliable combo.  When you say going for Task B do you mean as an OTG hit?  It doesn't seem fast enough otherwise.  

 

5K/2K 5HS 2D Task B

 

 

I don't like doing Task B after 2D because it seems to almost always be too far and I just get an OTG hit.  This does set up the seal but I feel it's not worth giving up the knockdown usually.  The Task B can hit properly after the 2D if you're close enough, but if you are that close you could probably do the better B&B into 1H 236H.  

 

Also, anyone know you can combo from 5HS>j.D IOH crossup with an RC?

 

I'm not sure what you mean by this.  You mean doing 5H(2) j.D for a crossup at close range?  I recorded it after seeing that it appears to cross over but it doesn't actually hit as a crossup, just an overhead.  Since it's not a real crossup and it makes it harder to combo from, wouldn't it be better to just do the j.D with 8D so that you can combo from it easily?  the 5H(2) pulls them in after all so missing shouldn't be an issue. 

[NecroTheReaper]

Damn... not even if you delay it slightly? Oh well. I just was experimenting with the way his moves behave on block

[Poultrygeist]

You just have to get used to how long the throw lasts before you can act again.  Maybe try for right as he's bringing his hand back?  If you're having trouble it's easier to go to 5K than to f.S.  5K 5H(1) 236H seems to be a fairly reliable combo.  When you say going for Task B do you mean as an OTG hit?  It doesn't seem fast enough otherwise.  

 

 

I don't like doing Task B after 2D because it seems to almost always be too far and I just get an OTG hit.  This does set up the seal but I feel it's not worth giving up the knockdown usually.  The Task B can hit properly after the 2D if you're close enough, but if you are that close you could probably do the better B&B into 1H 236H.  

 

 

I'm not sure what you mean by this.  You mean doing 5H(2) j.D for a crossup at close range?  I recorded it after seeing that it appears to cross over but it doesn't actually hit as a crossup, just an overhead.  Since it's not a real crossup and it makes it harder to combo from, wouldn't it be better to just do the j.D with 8D so that you can combo from it easily?  the 5H(2) pulls them in after all so missing shouldn't be an issue. 

OTG hit yes.  

[Tiamat]

Damn... not even if you delay it slightly? Oh well. I just was experimenting with the way his moves behave on block

 

I didn't try delaying it.  Delaying makes it a crossup though the amount of time you are required to delay seems to vary a bit by the target character's fatness.  Not sure how to combo off it though...

[Poultrygeist]

I never considered that I was sacrificing KD with that combo, thanks for pointing that out.  IYO what's a better followup to 2D, Task A'?  Maybe Task C to put the seal out?  

[WonderTonic]

As mentioned 5H(2)>j.D  can cross-up or not depending on the delay.  I usually follow up with RC>82>land>5p/5k(depending on my height when doing the crossup).  The one thing I've noticed about this string is the amount of delay needed to properly cross-up changes with whether the opponent blocks the second hit of 5H standing or crouching (less time needed on one who crouches the 2nd hit of 5H and stands for j.D). i tend to just delay it longer either way and follow up with RC>82>land>5P just in case. 

 

I'm sure many of you know, but this game, like previous GGs, will block cross-ups for your opponent automatically if the opponent is still in blockstun when crossed up.  So for many setups (like with task A') you have to attack just as they're leaving blockstun or it won't cross-up.  This can be dangerous when crossing up with A' since you will be in throw range.  When i know Task A' will move me to the opposite side, i tend to not delay and simply 2K > 5H(2) > j.D/2D mixup. 

 

Still haven't put as much time into this game as I have wanted yet, but im having a lot of fun with Bedman. His neutral game still takes some getting used to, but I am just going to have to play lots of matches for that to happen.

[Alkipot]

Does Bedman have a move that's not listed? It seems like I can somehow accidentally get him to float in one place for an extended period of time, with steam coming out from the bottom of his bed during an airjump. Or am I just on drugs? Probably drugs.

[madworlder]

that's the start of his airdash.

[Poultrygeist]

What you're looking at is his "air stop" which is performed by inputting 8 again in the air.  As it says, it stops his midair movement.  From there you can hit any of 8 directions to airdash in that direction, like Dr. Doom.  

[Alkipot]

Are you guys sure? The "air-stop" I've been accidently experiencing lasts longer than the air stop with 8 > (air stop) > direction... Maybe I just tossed out a Task A and didn't notice, I'll try when I get home, and thanks for the answers.

 

I like the Dr. Doom similarity though. He does move rather clunky.

[GKHiryu]

@ Alkipot - this is what happens if you don't press any direction after j.8. Think of it as "airdash stance".

 

Just wanna throw back to previous comment suggesting we start compiling our knowledge:

 

* 5H (1) > 236P > YRC - It's possible if 5H was blocked. Think of that as a way to kinda-sorta reset pressure after wrapping up blockstring. RC has to be delayed for YRC to come out.

* 9...81 - Very important move for mid-screen oki game. With enough delay between jump and airdash you can cross up and then come back. With DVB set up it gets nasty. j.K or j.S are both possible here as your attacks on the way down

* 886 > j.K > j.S - again very important attack pattern. covers a lot of distance, hits crouching, is a very reliable hit confirm and a natural combo.

*7 > 236P or backdash > 7 > 236P - safe, universal match openers

 

Options after throw:

* 236K - Good way to put pressure, guaranteed block string.

* 2369K (TK Task A') - Even better way to put pressure on the opponent, also THIS HITS CROUCHING FAUST

* 2369S (TK Task B) - No free pressure here, but sets up task token on top of opponent. He'll have to respect you now right? Right? Guys? (nah I'm kidding, it's legit)

 

These are some late night thoughts, but I'm sure what I mentioned here works and is useful on all levels.

[Alkipot]

Ok, I'll mess with the air stop a little more when I get home, thanks man.

 

And 886 > JK >JS is great, I just learned this yesterday in training :D

 

This is also probably known but the second JK in a head hitting jump in JK > JS > 6 > JK is a nasty instant overhead if they aren't mashing. Looking forward to more tips and more of this game with this character!

[NecroTheReaper]

Note, you can switch between 886>j.K>j.S with j.K>j.PP on all characters except Faust and Millia (note that j.K>j.S can wiff these characters, but j.K>j.P hits them) to vary the amount of overheads plus possibly go for a sneaky tick throw since j.P has low blockstun (careful to not get counter thrown). Also, if they respect either of these, if you input 236K right after, it gives you j.236K. These are just things I've used lately

[Tiamat]

I've been doing testing with his knockdowns to 236K.  Some characters can hold 1 (low guard) on wakeup after knockdowns and make your 236K whiff over them which sucks.  Here's some info on the problem characters and how to deal with it if possible.  Generally speaking, if a character can make it whiff by holding 1 you can fix the issue by delaying the 236K cancel from the 2D and this will make it so they have to block it.  You could do tiger knee with 2369K too but that will be wakeup jumpable.  

 

(tested with 236K from 2D and throw)

 

Faust - 1/3 crawl totally avoids from both knockdowns

Chipp - delay 236K from 2D.  whiffs from throw

Millia - delay 236K from 2D.  whiffs from throw unless you delay but delay from throw is jumpable...

Venom - delay 236K from 2D.  no problem from throw

Zato - delay 236K from 2D.  no problem from throw

*elph, sin, and leo not tested yet (seems fine on Sin though)

 

For characters not mentioned in this post that means if you just do 236K immediately there shouldn't be an issue (unless you are hitting the 2D super close maybe).  I checked this for every character because it was getting on my nerves seeing it whiff on certain opponents.  Any corrections let me know.  

[NecroTheReaper]

So vs faust, should you just forget about 236B oki in these situations?

[Tiamat]

So vs faust, should you just forget about 236B oki in these situations?

 

It's a natural reaction to hold low block on wakeup so even if they don't know they can crawl under it they will do it anyway.  Even if it whiffs it could still potentially get them when it boomerangs back but it still sucks.  If you're confident they won't wakeup jump you could 2369K and crawl will not avoid that...but yeah you'll have to make some adjustments.  Might be better to just walk up and go for something else.  

[GcYoshi13]

I've been doing testing with his knockdowns to 236K.  Some characters can hold 1 (low guard) on wakeup after knockdowns and make your 236K whiff over them which sucks.  Here's some info on the problem characters and how to deal with it if possible.  Generally speaking, if a character can make it whiff by holding 1 you can fix the issue by delaying the 236K cancel from the 2D and this will make it so they have to block it.  You could do tiger knee with 2369K too but that will be wakeup jumpable.  

 

(tested with 236K from 2D and throw)

 

Faust - 1/3 crawl totally avoids from both knockdowns

Chipp - delay 236K from 2D.  whiffs from throw

Millia - delay 236K from 2D.  whiffs from throw unless you delay but delay from throw is jumpable...

Venom - delay 236K from 2D.  no problem from throw

Zato - delay 236K from 2D.  no problem from throw

*elph, sin, and leo not tested yet (seems fine on Sin though)

 

For characters not mentioned in this post that means if you just do 236K immediately there shouldn't be an issue (unless you are hitting the 2D super close maybe).  I checked this for every character because it was getting on my nerves seeing it whiff on certain opponents.  Any corrections let me know.  

Also note that some character's take longer to wake up than others according to the wiki.

[Tiamat]

Yeah that's true.  Venom gets up really fast from the throw knockdown cause it's a face up

 

edit: Elphelt might be a problem character cause I was just playing one online and it was whiffing over her.  of course it was in double digit lag frames so take that how you will.  I won't get her till next week :P

[NecroTheReaper]

How are we suppose to compensate for the fact that Bedman wont change direction period after floating?

[GKHiryu]

How are we suppose to compensate for the fact that Bedman wont change direction period after floating?

I'm not sure if I get you right, but... j.S for the very wide hitbox?

[Zephyrion22]

How are we suppose to compensate for the fact that Bedman wont change direction period after floating ?

 

Using his float on neutral often means punishment if you're too predictable with it, but unlike air dashes you have a wide array of options to chose from : if your usual 886 jK>jS gets stuffed too much, try going for 884>j236P> or 889>236H ( harder to anti-air  if you change the 236H timing regularly) or even just 882 into walk if you feel that your opponent is just waiting for you to do something stupid : doesn't hurt to surprise him with something even more stupid^^

[xenwall]

So how important has that 8-way air dash ended up being in your game? It seems to me like it's less important than similar abilities in games like Marvel, Bedman doesn't seem to wavedash or anything of the sort.

[kex]

Hi guys. I found something interesting while was practicing in traning mode:
1) Make any special that creates Dejavu's sign. That sign will disappear in 7 seconds, as you know.
2) If you manage to time signs disappering and make an overdrive simultaneously youll get an interesting option:
3) Sign will disappear, but you can continue to use it like it were on field without time restriction. It cannot be hit by opponent or his projectiles, it doesnt disappear if you are hit. It still has limitations as any dejavu- you cant use same Task A while another is used, you cant use more than 2 dejavu B or C at once on screen, it will disappear as soon as you use glitched special and make another sign. Also, you can make more than one glitch, if they are different Task- in traning mode I created infinite Dejavu Task B and C from 2 overdrives which could be used simultaneously. Also tested this in versus mode, it works at least for one sign. Glitch doesnt go throught rounds.
I instantly realised that I can make almost infinite block string in corner like: 214S, come closer, 5HS (2hit to pull opp closer), 1HS (for long hitstun),214S, repeat. And many other funny things! Freakin dejavu out of freakin nowere!
The only thing am not sure if it works while signs disappering caused not by time restrictions but if its hit by opponent.
Typical setup as I see it: corner ending combo in 236S, strating to do usual things like S,HS, 214S,come closer,S,HS... 3 times. On 4th you do S.HS, 632146HS and overdrives timing usualy will match timing of sign. Repeat till death.
It will be realy sad if patch fix this sometime, it could be a new tech for GG as FDK.

*Let me tell you, that that tests information was written yesterday before 1.02, but dustloop were disabled in night. Am almost sure it works for now, but not still sure about. Still work in traning.

[NecroTheReaper]

While I would love to have not every move in the game wreck DV seals, I feel like using that would end up in poor sport. Might not make Bedman "good", but... I'd rather not give the impression that "Bedman cant win without glitches".

[Poultrygeist]

double digit lag frames

My sincerest condoloences.

 

 

Hi guys. I found something interesting while was practicing in traning mode:

1) Make any special that creates Dejavu's sign. That sign will disappear in 7 seconds, as you know.

2) If you manage to time signs disappering and make an overdrive simultaneously youll get an interesting option:

3) Sign will disappear, but you can continue to use it like it were on field without time restriction. It cannot be hit by opponent or his projectiles, it doesnt disappear if you are hit. It still has limitations as any dejavu- you cant use same Task A while another is used, you cant use more than 2 dejavu B or C at once on screen, it will disappear as soon as you use glitched special and make another sign. Also, you can make more than one glitch, if they are different Task- in traning mode I created infinite Dejavu Task B and C from 2 overdrives which could be used simultaneously. Also tested this in versus mode, it works at least for one sign. Glitch doesnt go throught rounds.

I instantly realised that I can make almost infinite block string in corner like: 214S, come closer, 5HS (2hit to pull opp closer), 1HS (for long hitstun),214S, repeat. And many other funny things! Freakin dejavu out of freakin nowere!

The only thing am not sure if it works while signs disappering caused not by time restrictions but if its hit by opponent.

Typical setup as I see it: corner ending combo in 236S, strating to do usual things like S,HS, 214S,come closer,S,HS... 3 times. On 4th you do S.HS, 632146HS and overdrives timing usualy will match timing of sign. Repeat till death.

It will be realy sad if patch fix this sometime, it could be a new tech for GG as FDK.

*Let me tell you, that that tests information was written yesterday before 1.02, but dustloop were disabled in night. Am almost sure it works for now, but not still sure about. Still work in traning.

 

This is really nifty, but due to the timing specifics and having to throw out one of Bedman's mediocre ODs I dunno if we'll get any use out of it.  Still great to know.

 

 

While I would love to have not every move in the game wreck DV seals, I feel like using that would end up in poor sport. Might not make Bedman "good", but... I'd rather not give the impression that "Bedman cant win without glitches".

 

All I ask is for DV specials to not get cancelled out when someone hits a seal as you do DV lol.  I don't think that would break him.