[CP] Ragna Gameplay Discussion

[Fistmaster049]

he is still supposed to be pretty good, its not like he is getting nerfed....much

[Errol]

What I've heard, in threads for other characters, is that Ragna is looking good. also stuff like what's the point in playing makoto when you compare her damage to ragna (in cp), etc.

Also, I don't think dead spike is unsafe on block. It's just not a point blank frame advantage tool. at same time, It's hard to imagine it not giving frame advantage at range, too.

[WolfCrimson]

OK, need a quick translation, and some help:

Ｐ．Ｓ．ラグナ使いのみなさんへ

6Bをガードされたあとの状況が悪いことについては先述の通りですがではこれが具体的にどのような影響を及ぼすか考えてみましょう

今まではガードされても攻め継続できたためガードされる前提でも気軽に撃つ事が出来ましたが次回作ではそのようなことが出来なくなります

ガードされたら状況が悪いので、本当に当てるつもりで相手の意識の外から6Bを完全に外した上で使わざるを得なくなるでしょう

そのためにはせいぜい1Rに1回ぐらいが妥当でしょうね

6Bを除くとラグナの主なノーゲージ崩しは投げとGHのみですが、投げが届く距離ではGHは当たらずまたGHが当たる距離だと投げは届かないので片方だけ意識してればいい

終わってますね

やはり6Bのプレッシャーを、つまり崩しのプレッシャーを相手に意識させるために6Bのガト復活は欠かせないものとなっています

BBCP調整陣に抗議して、6Bガト復活させるためにもみなさんの力をぜひお貸しくださいお願いします

Ｐ．Ｓ．BBCP調整陣の方々へ

これは調整じゃない、バグだ。

何かの手違いで6BからのC系統へのガトが消えてしまっただけなんだろ？俺は分かってる。

だから今なら間に合うから素直にバグだったとミスを認め、製品版ではちゃんとバグは修正して稼動するんだ。分かったな？

それがアークという会社の信頼を取り戻すための唯一の方法だ。

俺は当然アークはこのような重大なバグを残したまま稼動させるようなことが無いと信じている。

I saw this post on Ragna JBBS and ran it through google translate, and I understood something about 6B being really bad.

Then other posts in thread started getting weird, some of them looked like they were mocking the poster who posted that post, and then ASCII pictures were popping up. What the hell is going on? Here's the link: http://jbbs.livedoor.jp/bbs/read.cgi/game/45148/1346033416/l50. Posts 703 and onwards.

Edited November 19, 2012 by WolfCrimson

[Fluck]

KF is a way better translator so I'll leave the bulk of the work to him, but basically he's saying 6B is really bad on block cause you can't cancel to much and complaining about Ragna's mixup being bad and he wants to ask for 6B to be buffed back.

[Errol]

He's bitching about not being able to gatling into C moves on block. And then other stuff from other people is mostly about how Ragna players are babies, finally starting to feel like a ragna thread, etc.

[heavymetalmixer]

He's bitching about not being able to gatling into C moves on block. And then other stuff from other people is mostly about how Ragna players are babies, finally starting to feel like a ragna thread, etc.

Maybe 6B its like because of the Gauntlet Hades buff right?

[Errol]

Maybe 6B its like because of the Gauntlet Hades buff right?

Sorry what?

[heavymetalmixer]

Sorry what?

Sorry, i read some months ago that GH was safe on block, false hopes

[KayEff]

Ｐ．Ｓ．ラグナ使いのみなさんへ

PS: To everyone who uses Ragna

6Bをガードされたあとの状況が悪いことについては先述の通りですがではこれが具体的にどのような影響を及ぼすか考えてみましょう

The situation regarding how bad 6B is on block is just as bad as how I mentioned it before, but we should seriously discuss how this will affect us.

今まではガードされても攻め継続できたためガードされる前提でも気軽に撃つ事が出来ましたが次回作ではそのようなことが出来なくなります

Before, you could use the move however you want, whenever you want, since you could use that to continue your offense, even on block. This time around, however, that sort of thing cannot be done.

ガードされたら状況が悪いので、本当に当てるつもりで相手の意識の外から6Bを完全に外した上で使わざるを得なくなるでしょう

Along with being bad on block, you're forced to truly get acquainted with when the opponents will not block the move, especially if the move completely misses.

そのためにはせいぜい1Rに1回ぐらいが妥当でしょうね

For that reason you should only use it at most around 1 time in round 1.

6Bを除くとラグナの主なノーゲージ崩しは投げとGHのみですが、投げが届く距離ではGHは当たらずまたGHが当たる距離だと投げは届かないので片方だけ意識してればいい

終わってますね

Now with Ragna's primary no-meter mixup tools being throw and GH, we need to finish talking about being aware of the distances where GH works and throw doesn't, and where throw works but GH doesn't.

やはり6Bのプレッシャーを、つまり崩しのプレッシャーを相手に意識させるために6Bのガト復活は欠かせないものとなっています

6B's gatlings are obviously and absolutely necessary, especially if the opponent is aware of 6B's pressure, much less the rest of his mixup pressure.

BBCP調整陣に抗議して、6Bガト復活させるためにもみなさんの力をぜひお貸しくださいお願いします

I'm gonna be protesting against the team behind the CP changes. I would like to ask for everyone's support so that we can bring back 6B's gatlings.

Ｐ．Ｓ．BBCP調整陣の方々へ

To the CP changes team:

これは調整じゃない、バグだ。

This isn't a change, it's a bug.

何かの手違いで6BからのC系統へのガトが消えてしまっただけなんだろ？俺は分かってる。

I'm guessing something must've gone wrong when only the C gatlings from 6B were gone? I understand.

だから今なら間に合うから素直にバグだったとミスを認め、製品版ではちゃんとバグは修正して稼動するんだ。分かったな？

In that case, there's still time now to admit the mistake you guys made, and thoroughly fix the bugs for the game before sending it out. Alright?

それがアークという会社の信頼を取り戻すための唯一の方法だ。

That seems to be ASW's only way of regaining their trust.

俺は当然アークはこのような重大なバグを残したまま稼動させるようなことが無いと信じている。

I guess that's what I believe in doing when you leave such a glaring and important bug in the game as is.

lol is this faggot serious

[mAc Chaos]

> Before, you could use the move however you want, whenever you want, since you could use that to continue your offense, even on block. This time around, however, that sort of thing cannot be done.

> This isn't a change, it's a bug.

[Starlight777]

I don't know how hard I should laugh at that person's ignorance.

[hakimiru]

lol is this faggot serious

It doesn't make his attitude or argument any better, but I think you're misrepresenting him a little with some mistranslations. I've fixed the important bits below:

ガードされたら状況が悪いので、本当に当てるつもりで相手の意識の外から6Bを完全に外した上で使わざるを 得なくなるでしょう

Along with being bad on block, you're forced to truly get acquainted with when the opponents will not block the move, especially if the move completely misses.

Since it's disadvantageous on block, we should only use it if we're certain that it will hit, forcing us to wait until the threat of the move has completely left the opponent's conciousness before using it.

そのためにはせいぜい1Rに1回ぐらいが妥当でしょうね

For that reason you should only use it at most around 1 time in round 1.

For this reason, we should probably only use it at most once a round.

6Bを除くとラグナの主なノーゲージ崩しは投げとGHのみですが、投げが届く距離ではGHは当たらずまたG Hが当たる距離だと投げは届かないので片方だけ意識してればいい

終わってますね

Now with Ragna's primary no-meter mixup tools being throw and GH, we need to finish talking about being aware of the distances where GH works and throw doesn't, and where throw works but GH doesn't.

With 6B out of the picture, Ragna's main remaining no-meter mixup tools are throw and GH. However, GH doesn't hit at throw ranges, and throw doesn't hit at GH ranges, so the opponent only needs to worry about one of them at a given time.

Isn't it over for us?

やはり6Bのプレッシャーを、つまり崩しのプレッシャーを相手に意識させるために6Bのガト復活は欠かせな いものとなっています

6B's gatlings are obviously and absolutely necessary, especially if the opponent is aware of 6B's pressure, much less the rest of his mixup pressure.

In conclusion, 6B gatlings are indispensable for making opponents wary of 6B pressure, and by extension, mixup pressure

And a little more regarding his attitude towards the company, which I thought was also misrepresented:

それがアークという会社の信頼を取り戻すための唯一の方法だ。

That seems to be ASW's only way of regaining their trust.

This is the only way for ASW as a company to regain their trust.

俺は当然アークはこのような重大なバグを残したまま稼動させるようなことが無いと信じている。

I guess that's what I believe in doing when you leave such a glaring and important bug in the game as is.

Of course, I believe that Arc wouldn't allow the game to be released with such a large bug still present. (Implying that he thinks they're going to fix it, because he thinks they're better than that.)

It doesn't make his post much better, but he's not really quite as terrible as you make him out to be, I think.

[Tong]

I really hate the idea of an unsafe normal overhead :V

It better be worth hitting lol

[LuminAbyss]

22C being special cancelable is good enough for me.

It is good enough for me.

I want this game.

[DogsofWar]

[+] 6B gatlings to only 6A, 5D, 2D, 6D, and specials+above

Okay....

[+] 5D(2) recovery is shorter

[x] Blood Scythe seems really slow but relatively safe due to its absurdly short recovery

So on block, why not finish with any of these options to make 6B safer if it's as unsafe as all that? Just a thought. Dunno how much safer 5D(2) is, but i wouldn't recommend it. :P

[floatwater]

6B was ass to begin with, if it was telegraphed you could 2A, Fatal (with some characters), DP, and the easiest is to grab it. i myself had used 6B excessively for mix up, imo it makes his mix ups a bit more useful.

[Sadeyo]

Videos tomorrow, get hype. I like to see what Yutta can do or what combo videos Tetsu can muster up. Honestly I'm not too happy with Ragna changes but in the end I find myself playing him once more after I go through two other characters.

[KayEff]

people could always gatling 6B with 2D, which is safe. just saying.

i wouldn't advise using ground blood scythe as an overhead. it's hella slow and characters with DPs can easily react to it. i don't know how effective the aerial version will be though.

[-Seo]

Videos tomorrow, get hype. I like to see what Yutta can do or what combo videos Tetsu can muster up. Honestly I'm not too happy with Ragna changes but in the end I find myself playing him once more after I go through two other characters.

I think the changes could've been alot worse really, though I'm gonna miss that 2C fatal for sure. Pretty excited to see what CP Ragna can do with OD though, unburstable BK combos sounds sick.

We gonna make a new video thread and archive the Extend one btw, or just stick to the current one?

[heavymetalmixer]

I think the changes could've been alot worse really, though I'm gonna miss that 2C fatal for sure. Pretty excited to see what CP Ragna can do with OD though, unburstable BK combos sounds sick.

We gonna make a new video thread and archive the Extend one btw, or just stick to the current one?

It would be better if we wait until the consoles release next year to do that.

[Fluck]

I dunno, I doubt anyone cares about Extend videos anymore, we might as well move on to CP for that thread.

[Final Ultima]

A new thread will be made, but it probably won't be right away given how long it'll take for people to get to grips with the game and all.

[Tong]

A Combo+Combo theory thread would be amazing to try to figure potentially awesome stuff.

[KayEff]

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/game-carnival

showcasing ragna right now

[KayEff]

noticeable features so far:

- ground blood scythe is techable on aerial hit

- crush trigger followup-able with 5C

- 2B > 3C > 22C > dc 5B > 6A > j.214D > 5B > 6A > hjc j.C > j.D > jc j.D > j.214C > 5D > 623D >> 236C >> 214D roughly 3.1k

- seems like 214A still has quite a bit of untechable, 214A > 5A on aerial hit still works

- 2D still does ground bounce on CH yesssssssss

- 6C > 214D seems to cross up at close ranges, acts much like 6C > dc

- 5D(1) > 214B doesn't seem to work anymore, 5D(1) probably has less untech now

- straight punch P2 less strict now? 2B > 3C > 623D >> 236C >> 236C > 22C > dc 5B > 6A > j.214D > 5B > 6A > hjc j.D > j.214C > 5D > stuff works

- D inferno divider has repeat proration

- CH 5B > 5B works, maybe CH 5B > 214D will?

- blood scythe has repeat proration between ground and air, but the instant tech effect doesn't apply for some reason

- cross up ID > j.214D works, you could probably add j.D in between

Edited November 21, 2012 by KayEff