[CP] Ragna Gameplay Discussion

[Spirit Juice]

Your avatar and profile text were never so appropriate.

Ragna doesn't get to have fun anymore. Fun only for people playing against him.

Wish I had that ascii art Jiyuna was talking about yesterday. lol

[MashThat5A]

it's only hypothetical at this point, but i'm pretty sure 3C oki will still work (plus it's stronger than 22C oki). i'll just have to mess around with the combos to see if i can still have high damage combos and 3C oki.

though i'd still suggest you guys to try and learn it

You might just have to do a makeshift version of it off of Tsukika, assuming the recovery is still good.

[KayEff]

maybe, but i highly doubt that it'll come down to that. i can already think of several ways to get into 3C, but again it all depends on how good the combos would be

[Gramas]

It's not necessarily max damage that is making him pretty weak right now. Comboability is down to pretty sad levels, 6A nerfed pretty badly, nerfed overheads, and no more 22C oki hurts A LOT.

I think the biggest problem is that they took out a lot of things that made Ragna fun (he was still fun in CS2, even if he was considered weak), and all he gained in CP was... Blood Scythe. lol

isn't 6A hitbox ala cs1 in cp?

well ye....cs2 ragna is my favorite ragna lol

anyway we knew this day was coming... damage from overhead are retarded in cse...anything into DP wall bounce 2c 6A etc is stupid....6B in combo is stupid....150% meter bk combos are stupid etc

and yes Blood scythe is almost useless...its just a combo tool

[Lucalibur]

Ragna is 5B and combo filler.

I was all for max damage and heat gain nerfing, but I see literally no point in nerfing the mixups of a char with...no mixups like Ragna. We're stucked with little reward off bad overheads, average damage that is nothing amazing, and bad to average reset options.

Still got 5B though!

[mAc Chaos]

nerf 5b

[Spirit Juice]

isn't 6A hitbox ala cs1 in cp?

well ye....cs2 ragna is my favorite ragna lol

anyway we knew this day was coming... damage from overhead are retarded in cse...anything into DP wall bounce 2c 6A etc is stupid....6B in combo is stupid....150% meter bk combos are stupid etc

and yes Blood scythe is almost useless...its just a combo tool

6A being not JC-able on block is a pretty big nerf to that normal.

I don't remember 150% meter BK combos in EX that were practical.

Like I said earlier, the biggest problem Ragna is facing right now is that they nerfed everything that was FUN about him. Now he's just a neutered CT Ragna with sad damage and even worse mixups.

[skd]

150 meter combos? they were practical,

if your opponent didnt have the burst and you have the meter

. you could go into them off of like

2A 5B 5C 623D(1) 236C 236C in and near the corner,

forward grab anywhere

random air confirms in the corner

any crouch confirm anywhere

6A CH anywhere (this one is kinda silly, 6A BK lol)

ragna lost the ability to go into really high damage on demand with even 50 meter, which is imo one of the biggest nerfs. if i could turn a 2B into 5.5-6k from a little past the center of the stage while you have no burst, thats another strong option i have at my disposal

tl;dr he lost a lot ;___;

Edited December 18, 2012 by not_lunaris

[LuminAbyss]

Like I said earlier, the biggest problem Ragna is facing right now is that they nerfed everything that was FUN about him. Now he's just a neutered CT Ragna with sad damage and even worse mixups.

Dash cancel Deadspike looks like it'll be both strong and jokes at the same time. The dash cancel on whiff property seems to be really strong for oki set-ups, I'm excited to experiment with it.

Fatal D Divider is seriously the best thing they've ever done to him. 7 frame fatal punish TO THE SKIES.

6A has to be air-barriered, barrier makes it -3 on block, if I remember correctly. So it's safe. Unless the air IB-barrier it then...welp might as well cancel into Deadspike, whaddya got to lose you're in counter hit state anyway (well not entirely, but I mean the special cancel will probably still help us).

The 6B nerf makes me sad, but I bet we could do cool things like 6B > OD > 5C > 3C/6C/5D > stuff or whatever. Overdrive in generally looks like a shit load of fun.

We'll be fine, his mix-up and neutral game are like, exactly the same as CS2.

Edited December 18, 2012 by LuminAbyss

[LuminAbyss]

On that note, Carnage Scissor's invuln is exactly the same as Extend. Sadness.

[Kuraudo_V6]

On that note, Carnage Scissor's invuln is exactly the same as Extend. Sadness.

Isn't that supposed to be a good thing? Projectile invulnerability ftw?

[LuminAbyss]

It's not invulnerable to it's first active frame. That means he can get hit out of it before the move goes active. Meaning it can still lose to a lot of things, some projectiles included.

Basically, it starts up in 7 frames after the superflash, and it's only fully invuln 6 of those frames. Still works against projectiles but man what I'd give for it to be a real reversal.

[WolfCrimson]

We have ID, and you want CS to be a reversal?

[Kuraudo_V6]

I guess LuminAbyss does have a point though, since I've never paid too much attention to frame data myself when I play. CS would be a helluva reversal due to the range on it.

[KayEff]

all they would really need to do to make CS better is make it projectile invincible until its first active frame so that at worst it trades with projectiles

[LuminAbyss]

We have ID, and you want CS to be a reversal?

Mainly for longer range situations

Also I'm greedy.

[Kuraudo_V6]

I'd be all for it being completely invincible until the first impact. If you're blocked, you're screwed as always.

[WolfCrimson]

all they would really need to do to make CS better is make it projectile invincible until its first active frame so that at worst it trades with projectiles

Do physical hits trade with projectiles?

[skd]

Do physical hits trade with projectiles?

your hitbox becomes "hittable" on the same frame your attack connects while inside of a projectile = ???

unless you mean trade in an entirely different way

[WolfCrimson]

Oh wait... Actually nvm, I understood KF's post wrong.

But wouldn't that be too strong? A number of projectiles become inactive when the opponent gets hit, so wouldn't Ragna always win in that situation?

Edited December 18, 2012 by WolfCrimson

[skd]

too strong? invin UNTIL the first active frame > ragna gets hit on the first active frame > its STILL the first active frame for the attack = trade?

then again im probably not the person to talk to about this, i hope someone else can confirm, my understanding of this situation is purely based off of assumption.

[Sadeyo]

I might not use Ragna in the beginning but I'm actually quite glad with his nerfs. It finally leaves people with the option to consider thinking in combat instead of going for brain dead options or follow-ups....though I can't help but think this has also been mentioned about CSII Ragna as well. It probably won't be long before someone post this is the best Ragna iteration to date.

[Tong]

So you all preffer a weaker Ragna for the sake of not being called a braindead player?

I can relate to that feel!

And even though CS2 Rags couldn't combo for long, he still had amazing BK Combos.

Btw, how hard would it be to block/punish meaty crossup BS on wakeup?

[WolfCrimson]

too strong? invin UNTIL the first active frame > ragna gets hit on the first active frame > its STILL the first active frame for the attack = trade?

then again im probably not the person to talk to about this, i hope someone else can confirm, my understanding of this situation is purely based off of assumption.

This is getting really confusing.

OK just forget it no more about this from me.

P.S. It was all Lumin's fault.

[xlolxlolx]

cs + projectile = ragna gets put back into the dumpster gggggggggggg