whytesakura Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 well...if the player is good the player can keep pressure on the opponent whether they dead angle or burst. eddie is really good with this. you don't necessarily lose pressure. as long as you make the opponent feel they can't dead angle, then they won't.
Adelheid Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 I suck at typing, I meant Startup < |-SD| I... don't think that's a different number.
4r5 Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 When I said, "I suck at typing", I actually meant to type, "I suck at math." edit: wait, no, that's right. i think edit2: or maybe it needs a conditional? Do we have any math-heads in here? I'm use to letting the computer do my counting.
Oiboi Posted January 17, 2009 Posted January 17, 2009 An intelligent DAA can not be defeated. If the person knows they can get you with it when they block a certain move, they can get you with it. In cases like this, the only option is RC block. As an example, say Testament came at Zappa with badlands. Zappa blocks the first hit, and late in the blockstun of the first hit he cancels into his DAA. Testaments ONLY option in this scenario is to roman cancel and then FD (because he's in the air). The good news is that DAA's don't have nearly any comboability, they only serve to allow the player to switch pressure if their intelligent. So when it comes down to it, the only way to attack against a DAA, is to do it back first chance it's a sure thing.
Hellmonkey Posted January 17, 2009 Posted January 17, 2009 Not even an RC can save you from a guard cancel that hits you during the hitstop of your move. RC does not cancel hitstop, only the recovery afterwards.
reaVer Posted January 17, 2009 Posted January 17, 2009 When I said, "I suck at typing", I actually meant to type, "I suck at math." edit: wait, no, that's right. i think edit2: or maybe it needs a conditional? Do we have any math-heads in here? I'm use to letting the computer do my counting. Startup < |-SD| So lets take some values: Startup = 5, SD = +6 Then -SD = -6 Then |-SD| = |-6| = 6 Then 5 < 6 so you're able to punish moves that give the opponent 6 frames of advantage. No, its incorrect:P The one I gave is correct.
whytesakura Posted January 17, 2009 Posted January 17, 2009 testament shouldn't be having badlands being blocked unless he does it on oki or at the beginning of the match. plus blocking a badlands shouldn't call for a DAA. it should call for a punish. he is in a punishable situation.
Digital Watches Posted January 17, 2009 Posted January 17, 2009 When I said, "I suck at typing", I actually meant to type, "I suck at math." edit: wait, no, that's right. i think edit2: or maybe it needs a conditional? Do we have any math-heads in here? I'm use to letting the computer do my counting. For the record, my math was right, and included a conditional. ReaVer's math technically works, but it handles positive values in kind of a weird way (IE you can beat them if your move has startup of less than 0)
Adelheid Posted January 17, 2009 Posted January 17, 2009 For the record, my math was right, and included a conditional. No it wasn't, it said that you could beat it if your opponent's SD is negative and your startup is also negative but of greater magnitude. If you have a complaint with reaVer's math, just say if(Startup < |SD| && SD < 0). if(-Startup < SD < 0) also works (and is probably what you meant) but that syntax looks ridiculous.
Digital Watches Posted January 17, 2009 Posted January 17, 2009 No it wasn't, it said that you could beat it if your opponent's SD is negative and your startup is also negative but of greater magnitude. If you have a complaint with reaVer's math, just say if(Startup < |SD| && SD < 0). if(-Startup < SD < 0) also works (and is probably what you meant) but that syntax looks ridiculous. Oh, yeah, that's right. I always forget to type the "-" . What's wrong with that syntax though? The intent is to show that the SD is between 0 and a fast move that can punish it. Although I guess the best way to do it would be: -Startup needed to punish move < SD > Startup needed to link from move (in blockstring). Although frankly, SD is kind of a limited tool, since it only really covers normal blocking on the first possible active frame, for which there are so many workarounds and variables in this game it's not even funny. It's actually more productive to just look up the level (or in special cases, listed blockstun) of a move, then compare it to the remaining active frames (depends on how meaty you hit) and the recovery frames of the move. Accounting for IB and FD, there are a lot of values a move can take, so it's important to have in mind what you actually want to do with it before you start looking at frame data, otherwise it's pretty much useless to do so.
rtl42 Posted January 17, 2009 Posted January 17, 2009 I'm not sure how to do the math on that one, care to explain? short answer is: Stun - (Remaining_Active_Frames + Recovery_Frames) = Static_Difference (SD) Frame data lists SD as the worst possible situation (i.e. you connect on the first active frame). As mentioned previously, if SD < 0, then the attacker is at frame disadvantage; if SD > 0, then the attacker is at frame advantage; and if SD = 0, then it's neutral. And as was also mentioned above, Stun is actually a function of how the attack was blocked (either normal block, IB, FD, or SB), but you can look up how the stun changes here: http://www.dustloop.com/ggac/data/hitstun.html
Oiboi Posted January 17, 2009 Posted January 17, 2009 testament shouldn't be having badlands being blocked unless he does it on oki or at the beginning of the match. plus blocking a badlands shouldn't call for a DAA. it should call for a punish. he is in a punishable situation. Well, of course, I was just using it as a simple example of what can happen. A better example would be to DAA on the hit right before Eddie tries an unblockable (at least in zappa's case, he has retarded long full invincibility that will allow him to get through it). Regardless, it got my point across. And on the info about not being able to roman cancel hitstop, Really? I could have sworn I've seen it done and done it myself. Maybe I'm just looking at the frames wrong.
whytesakura Posted January 17, 2009 Posted January 17, 2009 hmmmmm. eddie unblockables are only good on wake up. i guess when eddie isn't doing break the law in his eddie pressure you should go for a dead angle. i do agree that zappa has a pretty good DAA. what is also good is his backdash. 2nd or 3rd best in the game. i-no's DAA is terrible *Frowns*
Blade Posted January 17, 2009 Author Posted January 17, 2009 But isn't DAA relative to input timing? Like, if they DAA at the last possible moment, etc.?
whytesakura Posted January 17, 2009 Posted January 17, 2009 you can DAA as long as your are in block stun i believe
Hintalove Posted January 18, 2009 Posted January 18, 2009 If you DAA at the last possible second you are opening your self up to more risk, if by last second you mean the end of their move/towards the end of the blockstun. The ideal time to DA is when your opponent is doing a move they can't cancel out of, like if you see eddie winding up his 6k, or something similar where once its out they are commited.
Digital Watches Posted January 18, 2009 Posted January 18, 2009 And on the info about not being able to roman cancel hitstop, Really? I could have sworn I've seen it done and done it myself. Maybe I'm just looking at the frames wrong. It's definitely true, you just don't see it matter that often. I think DAAs happen during hitstop, but I'm sure that Baiken's counters, Axl's 623P, and Testament 214K all happen during hitstop.
Digital Watches Posted January 19, 2009 Posted January 19, 2009 DAAs don't happen during hitstop. Okay, cool. I was unsure of that, but that does lend credence to the assertion that DAAs are far from unbeatable.
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