How do you beat Dead Angles?

[Blade]

This is an endless conundrum that has me puzzled lately. I can certainly bait them, and if I see it coming, I can block it...to say nothing of Slashback yet. Obviously it means upper-invincibility frames, and from what I see, different Dead Angles do different stuff. (Dead Angle = Alpha Counter, if you don't know your nomenclature, i.e. 50% Tension use while guarding puts you on the offensive, 6+two attack buttons) Venom's for example, does wall-stick and huge knockback. I just want to know what can be done, if anything, or who I can expect to deal with a lot of Dead Angles from? Obviously this involves specific matchups but...depending on who I use, I have options sometimes, and sometimes I don't, so it varies. I just need advice. Thanks.

[excelence]

low profiles

[Sytha]

Jump canceling>Make them whiff>Punish. RC>Backdash>Make them whiff>Punish Cancel to a slide or something Etc.

[Nakkiel]

Jumping over it is the easiest option, they're all shitty on whiff. And there are no specific characters who will be dead angling a TON, it's more who the player is. Just watch out for it when they have 50%.

[whytesakura]

i like hos' dead angle. so quick

[AtTheGates]

block.

[Digital Watches]

Jumping over it is the easiest option, they're all shitty on whiff.

And there are no specific characters who will be dead angling a TON, it's more who the player is. Just watch out for it when they have 50%.

Bullshit.

Venom needs his DAA like water. Axl's DAA is pretty impotent a good 70% of the time. Chipp's DAA is somewhere in between. A Baiken player will probably almost never use the normal DAA, etc.

[Champion]

Most DAAs can be baited with multiple 2Ps for example, which recover fast. Some characters can also cancel into some specials that will win (Axl cancelling a string into 623P for example) Also, if you predict they'll DAA, just grab them. Other methods were pretty much mentioned.

[Sesshyru]

Act like your fighting Biken. Example: Order Sol: 2P->GunBlaze

[Senkei]

I know sol can 2d and close slash out of most if not all up close. yeah and MissedFRC, Faust usually needs his dead angle a-lot if the pressure is on.... so yeah not true.

[Nakkiel]

Bullshit.

Venom needs his DAA like water. Axl's DAA is pretty impotent a good 70% of the time. Chipp's DAA is somewhere in between. A Baiken player will probably almost never use the normal DAA, etc.

Point is they still need 50% and they are not hard to watch for, not to mention I've never met anyone who poured 100% of their tension use towards DAA.

[shinquickman]

Bullshit.

Venom needs his DAA like water. Axl's DAA is pretty impotent a good 70% of the time. Chipp's DAA is somewhere in between. A Baiken player will probably almost never use the normal DAA, etc.

Chipp's DAA is anything but impotent. It easily makes the top 3 DAA along w/ Potemkin and Slayer. You probably won't see Chipp do it much though cause he's got less costly options to escape pressure (Beta Blade FRC).

[AtTheGates]

Chipp's DAA is anything but impotent. It easily makes the top 3 DAA along w/ Potemkin and Slayer. You probably won't see Chipp do it much though cause he's got less costly options to escape pressure (Beta Blade FRC).

i used it quite a lot.

[Digital Watches]

Chipp's DAA is anything but impotent. It easily makes the top 3 DAA along w/ Potemkin and Slayer. You probably won't see Chipp do it much though cause he's got less costly options to escape pressure (Beta Blade FRC).

Er. I didn't say it was?

Read closer please. And for the record, I'm talking how often I see people use it, all factors considered. Venom has a great DAA, and NEEDS it because he has next to no other tools to get out of pressure. I don't Slayers use DAA as much, even though it may be an even better DAA, because he can just BDC out of stuff, and can use meter for much better things.

[reaVer]

There's always FD to get out of pressure:P I'd think that Venom and several others would do it because it puts them back in a favorable position, since they can attack from half a screen away. Others would do it for combo into further pressure. But not just to get out of pressure: if the DAA wouldn't knockdown the player wouldn't use it :P

[Adelheid]

reaVer what DAAs are basically a universal get out of pressure free button and that's pretty cool with any character, even Axl with his awful, awful DAA which at least works pretty cool v. Eddie because it's invincible forever. Meanwhile, uh, I don't think there's any character you can mindlessly FD out of, at least not if they get you in the corner. And there's some where FD is almost useless. Also throws exist? Also I'm pretty sure there's lots of moves people wouldn't use if they didn't knock down. I'm sure fewer people would use Slayer if he did Bridget damage either, and oh man, people would IK all the time if it was fully invincible unblockable undodgeable fullscreen. That statement is just so meaningless. I mean I get what you're trying to say with it but it just doesn't work

[reaVer]

Its not a get out of pressure for free button since you're paying 50% tension. Next to that, if the opponent happens to evade it by guarding for example you can get punished. Ogawa FDs 24/7 and he is one of the best players around so that other statement is rather invalid:P And yeah, they can throw you, but they have to wait longer to be actually able to than when you were in regular guard(good idea vs Potemkin to evade his buster). That second paragraph is exactly my point, its that specific property that makes most DAAs worth their while.

[Hintalove]

I find DA's rediculously hard to predict, unless of course you set your opponent up to get mixed up at the end of their last health bar or something obvious like that. It could also be that they'refaster than bursts(never looked it up but feels that way), but I just run into them all day, or at least I rarely intentionally dodge them. Of course I know how to play against baiken, but you can't play every matchup like baiken when you're opponent is guarding and sitting on tension(which will very likely go towards fding more than DAing like 90% of the time). DA bait champions, what is your advice?

[rtl42]

it appears the champ has already spoken:

Most DAAs can be baited with multiple 2Ps for example, which recover fast. Some characters can also cancel into some specials that will win (Axl cancelling a string into 623P for example) Also, if you predict they'll DAA, just grab them. Other methods were pretty much mentioned.

btw blade, look at the SD of anyone's DAA in the frame data and you'll see that all of them (except Axl's) are negative. that should give you an idea of what attacks you can use to punish the opponent for a blocked/whiffed DAA.

[Blade]

I'm not sure how to do the math on that one, care to explain?

[Digital Watches]

SD is listed in the frame data charts. So is the startup of every move in the game. SD means "How many frames they're neutral before you are if you (normal) block the move." If it's negative, you're neutral before they are, and thus can punish it on block (assuming it's not cancellable). So essentially if (Startup < SD < 0), your move can punish the move on block. If you IB or FD, the SD changes according to the level of the move blocked. It also changes based on how meaty the move hits (Always in favor of the person doing the blocked move.) It's pretty easy.

[reaVer]

that's mathematically incorrect XD Should be Startup < -SD

[4r5]

no no no, it's Startup < |SD|

[HolyOrderChipp]

A question I might ask is if one need beat a DAA. Now, against a good opponent, the player will only do it when it's worth spending 50% on that pressure escape. But, ask yourself: Does the advantage the opponent gains by using DAAs to escape outweigh the missed pressure opportunities when you wrongly bait a DAA? You also have to factor in punishes, of course. But still. DAAs are very expensive. My instinct is to just accept the fact that my opponent will occasionally blow 50% to escape pressure. However, if I played against opponents with very good pressure, I would probably feel differently.

[reaVer]

no no no, it's

Startup < |SD|

No, because that way you'd say that if some attack is +5 you can still interrupt it with a 4 frame startup move.