Hollysmoke Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 Wouldn't that just mean you'd have to think outside the box more, which ironically would allow more creative freedom? No because you have less tools. Tools that were fun got nerfed hard, that's the issue the JP players are having with the game. And yes, boring is quite a varied descriptor for a lot of people, that's why I am simply trying to paraphrase the general sentiment of what I've heard from most people. I never claimed to be the be-all end-all of the subject. I guess the best analogy I can think of off the top of my head is, say BB is a home improvement project, you have your tool box with your hammer and nails and screwdriver and all that good stuff, but your asshole neighbour ASW comes over and takes your hammer without your permission. All your options revolving around that hammer are gone now. Now you're nailing the nail into the wall with your bloodied forehead in quiet desperation, hoping that your neighbour returns your hammer at the next loketest BBQ party.
Putin Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 Well that's just it, define "boring"? Boring has a lot of definitions to many people, so I think we should try to explain ourselves as best as we can so we don't miss a point. Long story short, I don't like how they turned his drive into a plain combo filler, since j.D resets looks like they're gone, and you can go for 6D setups in the corner only off crouching hits and by sacrificing about 2k for it. Of course, they balanced this "nerf" with neutral buffs, but in my eyes he's just turning into a more generic shoto character which is not my kind of thing. I didn't write the previous post so I could whine about that anyway, it's just that I keep seeing the "only players with ex-top tiers are whining" opinion, so I wanted to make it clear that that's not always the case.
Dreiko Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 I can understand the Litchi and Kokonoe bits, but, why are Azrael and Rachel players complaining about this update? I didn't see anything too bad for either. Rachel's wind regen got shot in the knee which basically adversely affects everything. As for Azrael, he's still solid, he just lost some options like jD not knocking down in a way that you can do oki after midscreen (which means he has to end in j2D which applies a low weakness which is less good) or growler not being dp any more.
Hollysmoke Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 Rachel's wind regen got shot in the knee which basically adversely affects everything. As for Azrael, he's still solid, he just lost some options like jD not knocking down in a way that you can do oki after midscreen (which means he has to end in j2D which applies a low weakness which is less good) or growler not being dp any more. This is an example of the point I was trying to make earlier BTW.
Dreiko Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 This is an example of the point I was trying to make earlier BTW. And while it holds true for specifically Rachel, for the majority of the rest of the 28 chars in this game, it does not. It's quite the opposite. That's my point. It's an overall upwards movement. Just some chars got nerfed. Mostly ones who deserved it. (I have no idea why Terumi had to suffer, but beyond him and maybe Arakune, it's all good choices when taken as a whole)
BlackYakuzu94 Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 Long story short, I don't like how they turned his drive into a plain combo filler, since j.D resets looks like they're gone, and you can go for 6D setups in the corner only off crouching hits and by sacrificing about 2k for it. Of course, they balanced this "nerf" with neutral buffs, but in my eyes he's just turning into a more generic shoto character which is not my kind of thing. I didn't write the previous post so I could whine about that anyway, it's just that I keep seeing the "only players with ex-top tiers are whining" opinion, so I wanted to make it clear that that's not always the case. Hilariously, some would argue that's an improvement for Jin considering how much of a poor shoto he was before lol. But I feel you. I dunno, I feel CP2 suffers from what most of BB has been suffering from as of late. Where the buffs only benefit a few select characters while everyone else straggles between good and mediocre. Instead of buffing/nerfing everyone equally, it kind of feels like they have a dart board and choose who's the best and worst lol. That's probably why most feel their characters are boring, the buffs they got probably didn't change much on how they play.
antonymichiru Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 Well, I don't see it being taken away though. Even this subject alone is hugely up for debate and contention. I have seen lots of cp2 footage. Some chars are less free but others are much much more free. This sounds like it's coming from a Kokonoe/Azrael/Litchi/Rachel-centric point of view. Basically, lots of people who played the chars who got nerfed (who did well and thus have a loud voice, since they used the best of the best) are complaining about the game being less fun but I bet you there's tons of people who used some of the worse chars which now get to be actual real characters and do things who are ecstatic about the patch. Tager Izayoi Makoto, these chars seem like a breath of fresh air and tons of fun. Bang also is like that, though he always was fun for me. All in all, I still have no clue what the hell that statement even means and am inclined to believe it's coming from a place of "my S tier char is only A/B tier now so it's not fun to play BB any more", to be quite honest. Amane too seems like a breath of fresh air with this patch :D finally
Airk Posted March 7, 2015 Posted March 7, 2015 And while it holds true for specifically Rachel, for the majority of the rest of the 28 chars in this game, it does not. It's quite the opposite. That's my point. It's an overall upwards movement. Just some chars got nerfed. Mostly ones who deserved it. (I have no idea why Terumi had to suffer, but beyond him and maybe Arakune, it's all good choices when taken as a whole) Arakune just needs to die in a fire anyway. :P Anyway, it's pretty obvious why BB's tournament numbers dropped off and it has nothing at all to do with people "not liking" the new version. A) Xrd came out, and anime game players have the attention span of a stressed out goldfish B) CPEX was ANNOUNCED and now everyone is doing the "I don't really want to play an old version of the game..." whine. Neither of these reasons are very flattering for the American anime game scene, but what can you do? Anyway, I'm still waiting to see if this is going to be a good, polished product; If it's a halfassed mess like CP, I'll pass, if they actually take the time to include a good feature set and generally put some polish on it, I'll buy.
BlueXIII Posted March 7, 2015 Posted March 7, 2015 So, basically, ArcSys is killing BlazBlue with dartboard balancing and questionable business practices?
BlackYakuzu94 Posted March 7, 2015 Posted March 7, 2015 So, basically, ArcSys is killing BlazBlue with dartboard balancing and questionable business practices? More like the American Anime scene aren't consistent and move on to whatever new comes out.
mAc Chaos Posted March 7, 2015 Posted March 7, 2015 This is old, but: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-WREHZMx5w Watch this to the end. What happened?
swordsman09 Posted March 7, 2015 Posted March 7, 2015 What happened? I thought it was obvious. Ignis sacrificed herself to save her beloved husband Relius, he overdrived to make a skillful dodge, and used his little claw move from afar to get the win. Plain and simple.
mAc Chaos Posted March 7, 2015 Posted March 7, 2015 That was my first reaction, but if you look at the video, he actually gets staggered by the hit. So he still got hit but was able to recover somehow.
someonewhodied Posted March 7, 2015 Posted March 7, 2015 Kagura's astral is continuously hitting i think. The doll super pushes him far enough from relius that he is no longer getting hit. Carl doll super can do it too.
White Man Posted March 7, 2015 Posted March 7, 2015 I haven't played CP2 myself, but based on the footage I've watched and the comments players have made here and elsewhere, I believe the biggest issue with the game involves the loss of adaptability among individual characters coupled with the loss of diversity among the entire cast. This is something I believe has been a growing problem since the inception of the series. While CT was kind of a mess in terms of balance, one of the best things about that game — and one of its most universally praised aspects — was the fact that every character felt wholly unique and had a ton of options to accommodate different playstyles. Almost every character could be played at least two appreciably different ways, and everybody's Drive attack significantly impacted their gameplay. In subsequent iterations, that aspect of the game became increasingly downplayed. Characters became more homogenized in terms of damage and defense, and their individual "gimmicks" became less useful (Ragna's life-stealing mechanic being virtually removed and Rachel's Silpheed becoming more situational are just a pair of examples that spring to mind). It seems as though the CP2 update exacerbated this problem more so than any other installment. Too many characters lost too much of what made them interesting/unique. Jin's freezing attacks are only useful mid-combo, Tsubaki's charge mechanic is useless, Terumi lost damn near everything that made him fun, etc. Most characters essentially became one-combo wonders that have to be played a very specific way and punish any attempt at using unorthodox tactics. Simply put, CP2 is a game that discourages creativity on the part of its players. (There's also the fact that the balance is incredibly lopsided and the game is too dependent on long, muscle-memory combos that hurt the pacing, but I don't know if either of those things impact the game's fun factor as substantially.) I could be totally off the mark here, but that's my interpretation of what most people are talking about when they refer to CP2 being "less fun" than some other versions of BB.
chzchan Posted March 7, 2015 Posted March 7, 2015 Kagura's astral is continuously hitting i think. The doll super pushes him far enough from relius that he is no longer getting hit. Carl doll super can do it too. I think they fixed that in 1.1 by making it so Kagura is immovable during the Astral animation. Simply put, CP2 is a game that discourages creativity on the part of its players. I'd say it is the opposite for at least a handful of characters like Makoto and Tager which have had a new universe opened up to them with their changes.
BlueXIII Posted March 7, 2015 Posted March 7, 2015 But seriously, was shit this wild when CSEX came out? I wasn't apart of the scene at that point, but much of the complaints I remember seeing then almost mirror exactly what I'm seeing now. I really hope all this 'controversy' doesn't end up stifling this game - or any future iterations - playerbase or longevity. I really like this series.
TD Posted March 7, 2015 Posted March 7, 2015 just stopping by to say that rachel is relatively worse but still very much viable. most of her nerfs can be played around, though they are rather stagnating nerfs. agreed that new bb just doesnt seem all that new and interesting. personally I dont want to spend money on such a miniscule update. we are playing a variation of cp 1.1 with another set of annoying top tiers,old top and bottom tiers becoming real average characters, and the new bottom tier still look familiar. nerfs hardly seem to matter because everyone still has the same old gameplan with mostly the same system mechanics, two relatively shitty character choices, and either buffed or nerfed offensive routes. this shouldn't be a new game at the very least, or there should be more, interesting content that would warrant such a price. I mean who is going to even keep playing outside of the most dedicated after about a month? it'll be back to normal, looking for games, being bored playing.. IMO.
BlackYakuzu94 Posted March 7, 2015 Posted March 7, 2015 But seriously, was shit this wild when CSEX came out? I wasn't apart of the scene at that point, but much of the complaints I remember seeing then almost mirror exactly what I'm seeing now. I really hope all this 'controversy' doesn't end up stifling this game - or any future iterations - playerbase or longevity. I really like this series. Its pretty much the same song and dance as CSEX; people drop the series for one reason or another because they don't want to spend money on an update. New players pick up the game because "don't wanna waste money on an older version". So basically, all this means is that we're just going to get a new influx of players for Summer until BB4 and everyone who left comes back, just like with CP. In any case, I understand White Man and TD's points a bit more now having it explained to me, the game does feel a lot more generalized across the board and that would make the game feel less creative than before. I actually had the opinion that it was the boring iteration yet(and to an extent, it still is) but I decided to reevaluate and make a second opinion. I believe CP2 wants players to rely more on their fundamentals as a player than their creativity with their gimmicks. It would help justify some of the general buffs everyone has gotten, while most of their drive options are very limited now. Now do I think this is a good thing? Well yes and no, I don't mind having to rely on my own skills rather than be piggy bagged by gimmicks and scumbaggery, but I still felt there was no reason to gimp so many people's drives. It kind of makes the central mechanic of the game wholly pointless. I mean I'm happy for Makoto and Tager players since they're actually decent now, and even Tsubaki looks like she can actually win. But it's still really annoying to have a character like Hakumen and having his main defensive options only be used for a reversal and no other reward. I'm still gonna get the game because I'm always looking to improve, but its frustrating to say the least for me. Its probably why so many people have moved onto Ragna, the most fundamental character in the game in addition to all the buffs they gave him.
White Man Posted March 7, 2015 Posted March 7, 2015 But seriously, was shit this wild when CSEX came out? I wasn't apart of the scene at that point, but much of the complaints I remember seeing then almost mirror exactly what I'm seeing now. People were annoyed by the timing of the release and the fact that it only contained one "real" new character (provided you'd gone in on the DLC for vanilla CS), so there were some complaints over that. However, the first Extend had the benefit of adding new content players really wanted (more substantial single-player modes, online enhancements, a character fans had actually asked for, etc.) and the fact that it rescued the gameplay from the baffling disaster of a patch that was CS2. Whether or not the improvements were worth the $40 MSRP was the topic of much debate, but most players acknowledged that it was a desirable package on the whole and begrudgingly handed over the money. For my own part, I publicly stated I wouldn't buy CSEX unless I was able to acquire it for what I thought it was worth: Anything under $30. I stuck to that and waited for a sale. Similarly, I'll add an addendum to my previous post and say I'll buy CPEX if I'm somehow able to find a new copy for $10 or less. I don't mean to sound petty, that's simply all the game looks like it's going to be worth to me.
BlackYakuzu94 Posted March 7, 2015 Posted March 7, 2015 If you're gonna wait until it's less than $10, you may as well just skip it entirely and play something else until BB4 lol.
White Man Posted March 7, 2015 Posted March 7, 2015 If you're gonna wait until it's less than $10, you may as well just skip it and play something else until BB4 lol. That's pretty much my current plan, yeah.
Ragnarok_F4 Posted March 7, 2015 Posted March 7, 2015 I love the series, so I'll keep going. I've being doing that since CT and I'm not gonna stop now :p The Touhoku Battle was really hype, NO was wrecking at first with poor nerfed Rachel, quite impressive. I'm actually looking forward to it, ....except Terumi...he is pretty lame in CP2...
o Nereus o Posted March 7, 2015 Posted March 7, 2015 I love the series, so I'll keep going. I've being doing that since CT and I'm not gonna stop now :p The Touhoku Battle was really hype, NO was wrecking at first with poor nerfed Rachel, quite impressive. I'm actually looking forward to it, ....except Terumi...he is pretty lame in CP2... Yeah.. they gave him the Seth (UNiEL) treatment. He's pretty screwed in 2.0 lol
Ragnarok_F4 Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 But Seth still has some crazy stuff. Terumi looks plain to me.....sadly, becuase his new theme is so good.
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