someonewhodied Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 lol SKD >bang high/low not as threatening as jin high/low someone hasn't been vortexed by the new bumper setup yet :p I'll have a vid up on it this weekend. Bang shouldn't need to use 5C or 6B as mixup outside of the first combo you get near the corner. Also i accidentally included a reversal OS into it. The first time i auto-blocked a wakeup super i was so surprised i dropped my controller.
BlackYakuzu94 Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 SWD plz, stahp We just got on some actual constructive talk in this topic. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Moy_X7 Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 I find it hilarious that people are actually trying to argue and debate with SKD, one of the strongest and more knowledgeable BB players in 'Murica. "Just because you play the character doesn't mean that you truly understand how his/her/its gameplay works", words to live by, hurtful they may be lol.
BlackYakuzu94 Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 Did we ever get this terumi player's name?! Its Rocha. I find it hilarious that people are actually trying to argue and debate with SKD, one of the strongest and more knowledgeable BB players in 'Murica. "Just because you play the character doesn't mean that you truly understand how his/her/its gameplay works", words to live by, hurtful they may be lol. Ego? I guess its pretty hard to accept that you might not be as good as you think you are despite playing for years.
StylisH Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 Still at it I see. Moving on, Terumi isn't bad per se, just lacking certain tools (bad range, worse mixup, slow command throw, can be zoned out, etc)
Hollysmoke Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 I find it hilarious that people are actually trying to argue and debate with SKD, one of the strongest and more knowledgeable BB players in 'Murica. "Just because you play the character doesn't mean that you truly understand how his/her/its gameplay works", words to live by, hurtful they may be lol. The difference between discussion and debate is in the ability to suspend your judgments and explore assumptions. People need to be aware of their personal assumptions of how characters work and be open to the ideas being discussed. If people aren't open to the idea that their opinions on something may be wrong, and there may be a different approach to the problem. SKD brought up a lot of ideas, thoughts and opinions on mixup/pressure and instead of correlating their own ideas and perspectives on his post, are just brushing it aside. Learn to dialogue people, it's how you learn and get better. Instead of saying "No because..." say "Okay but what if...". Ask others for their thoughts on YOUR thoughts.
floatwater Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 lol SKD >bang high/low not as threatening as jin high/low someone hasn't been vortexed by the new bumper setup yet :p I'll have a vid up on it this weekend. Bang shouldn't need to use 5C or 6B as mixup outside of the first combo you get near the corner. Also i accidentally included a reversal OS into it. The first time i auto-blocked a wakeup super i was so surprised i dropped my controller. Using netplay statistics is like oh my goddddddddd why do people still do this SWD. Or better yet using your own personal experience 24/7 god why
someonewhodied Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 The difference between discussion and debate is in the ability to suspend your judgments and explore assumptions. People need to be aware of their personal assumptions of how characters work and be open to the ideas being discussed. If people aren't open to the idea that their opinions on something may be wrong, and there may be a different approach to the problem. SKD brought up a lot of ideas, thoughts and opinions on mixup/pressure and instead of correlating their own ideas and perspectives on his post, are just brushing it aside. Learn to dialogue people, it's how you learn and get better. Instead of saying "No because..." say "Okay but what if...". Ask others for their thoughts on YOUR thoughts. If that was directed to my post in some way, if someone says "this character's high low is just these few moves and they are garbage, so this character's mixup is worse" obviously someone else should probably correct them. If it was to this thread in general: Yeah i agree stay free scrubs Kappa *insert snoop dogg swivel here* git gud. ok but jokes aside, if someone posts something i agree with or can accept, i'll keep quiet or sometimes acknowledge or build on it. If its something i feel is really incorrect thats when i'll actually drop some specific situational knowledge i happen to remember because someone pulled it off on me a year ago or i stumbled upon it accidentally. Using netplay statistics is like oh my goddddddddd why do people still do this SWD. Or better yet using your own personal experience 24/7 god why So you say that jin 6A is unblockable on reaction online and offline and is legit mixup but you think that bang using bumpers for mixup is "netplay"? do explain. Seriously, please explain this to me.
D.R.F. Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 Still at it I see. Moving on, Terumi isn't bad per se, just lacking certain tools (bad range, worse mixup, slow command throw, can be zoned out, etc) THESE CAN ALL BE USED AS REASONS TO WHY HE SUCKS:/. We all know that having damage for decades doesn't make a good character. The fact you put "etc." Makes this hilarious, as if there weren't ENOUGH problems with Terumi, THERE'S MORE
BlackYakuzu94 Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 If that was directed to my post in some way, if someone says "this character's high low is just these few moves and they are garbage, so this character's mixup is worse" obviously someone else should probably correct them. If it was to this thread in general: Yeah i agree stay free scrubs Kappa *insert snoop dogg swivel here* git gud. ok but jokes aside, if someone posts something i agree with or can accept, i'll keep quiet or sometimes acknowledge or build on it. If its something i feel is really incorrect thats when i'll actually drop some specific situational knowledge i happen to remember because someone pulled it off on me a year ago or i stumbled upon it accidentally. So you say that jin 6A is unblockable on reaction online and offline but you think that bang using bumpers for mixup is "netplay"? do explain. But can you honestly say that your experiences are comparable to SKD's? If so, why? I say that because I don't really know your experiences to compare them to SKD's, so I'd really like to understand why you feel he's wrong about them. Or rather, how and why can you sum up everything he said as "Bang mixup sucks compared to Jin's lol"
someonewhodied Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 But can you honestly say that your experiences are comparable to SKD's? If so, why? I say that because I don't really know your experiences to compare them to SKD's, so I'd really like to understand why you feel he's wrong about them. Most of his post i do agree with, except for the whole "bang's mixup of 5C and 6B is weak therefore his mixup game is weaker overall than X character's" Completely disregarding the fact that he has crossups and j.22A options in even just his basic mixup. Sure the crossup is easy to block but its a nice tool to try to bait out mashing and stuff, and j.22A in mixup gives him tons more overhead options. (though i did miss one of his later posts where he did acknowledge some other options. but we all know i just nitpick on small things for the sake of posting something)
floatwater Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 What I find to be amazing is that you like. . .didn't even read the post properly. Actually not even surprised tbh. (you just did it, three times)
BlackYakuzu94 Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 Most of his post i do agree with, except for the whole "bang's mixup of 5C and 6B is weak therefore his mixup game is weaker overall than X character's" Completely disregarding the fact that he has crossups and j.22A options in even just his basic mixup. Sure the crossup is easy to block but its a nice tool to try to bait out mashing and stuff, and j.22A in mixup gives him tons more overhead options. (though i did miss one of his later posts where he did acknowledge some other options. but we all know i just nitpick on small things for the sake of posting something) But how easily can you do this to a competent opponent? If I don't feel threatened by Bang's mixup, then I'm not going to press buttons so easily. I can either jump, or just throw out 2A if I find a hole. Also, we're still comparing him to Jin I hope.
Hollysmoke Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 If that was directed to my post in some way, if someone says "this character's high low is just these few moves and they are garbage, so this character's mixup is worse" obviously someone else should probably correct them. If it was to this thread in general: Yeah i agree stay free scrubs Kappa *insert snoop dogg swivel here* git gud. ok but jokes aside, if someone posts something i agree with or can accept, i'll keep quiet or sometimes acknowledge or build on it. If its something i feel is really incorrect thats when i'll actually drop some specific situational knowledge i happen to remember because someone pulled it off on me a year ago or i stumbled upon it accidentally. So you say that jin 6A is unblockable on reaction online and offline and is legit mixup but you think that bang using bumpers for mixup is "netplay"? do explain. Seriously, please explain this to me. You would be correcting someone who's opinion consists of baseless fact in which you are okay to correct them. This is different; we're talking about facts (such as frame data) and how we interpret them differently (opinions, perspective, etc.) which is what leads to healthy dialogues. I also feel like people have an ego when it comes to learning from a veteran, and have to prove them wrong to feel better about themselves, but it's their own prerogative to kneecap themselves as midlevel players for life. Personally, the throw game in BB is radically different than what I'm used too in GG so it's interesting to hear what people have say about the topic. And no, it wasn't directed at you in particular. My biggest issue honestly was how bad SKD's formatting in his long as post was. It took me 30 minutes to read through it at 3 in the morning to figure out what he was saying TL;DR-People, check yourselves before you wreck yourselves. SKD, hire a copywriter. I'll even proofread and edit your article for you when you write it. I assume the Bang bumper thing is because of recovery and not as strong oki/pressure compared to throwing nails. I don't play Bang though so feel free to correct me.
C0R Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 Just from feel, how much faster does barrier drain just by holding 4A+B? Does it drain more on hit as well? Does charging Crush Trigger deal more barrier damage? How is the new gravity? Do characters jump higher or accelerate upward faster as well or just downward? Have general running accelerations been altered at all (I guess you can only really tell for Mu-12/Izayoi, though)? In all the matches I played and saw being played I don't think anyone ran out of barrier even once. If it does have a faster consumption rate on hold I feel like it's so insignificant that you can continue to follow the same defensive principles as always and have it be a non issue. Barrier should not be used in place of things like good mashing and IB. No one charged CT. I'm going to bet it does a whole lot of nothing, like it always has. The illusion of taking more barrier is because people hold barrier for the entire duration of the longer startup instead of flashing it on right as it becomes active. Usually claims like this are made based on watching jp match videos, which often appear to have awkwardly fast or smooth animation/speed differences from console versions due to different video encoding settings chosen by the uploader. Playing the game, getting around is the same. Dash specs and stats have remained unchanged for a long, long time. I surely didn't see a difference in this version, reference above comment.
Nemesis Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 In all the matches I played and saw being played I don't think anyone ran out of barrier even once. If it does have a faster consumption rate on hold I feel like it's so insignificant that you can continue to follow the same defensive principles as always and have it be a non issue. Barrier should not be used in place of things like good mashing and IB. Dash specs and stats have remained unchanged for a long, long time. I surely didn't see a difference in this version, reference above comment. Thats good/interesting to hear about barrier - despite the changes and fears they will dissipate very quickly now Just to touch on dash specs before giving up - I heard that relius was having his tweaked/buffed - Did anyone play relius there that you could see and visibly notice?
C0R Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 Thats good/interesting to hear about barrier - despite the changes and fears they will dissipate very quickly now Just to touch on dash specs before giving up - I heard that relius was having his tweaked/buffed - Did anyone play relius there that you could see and visibly notice? Dusty played relius but he was a shot from death. He can still do 5b 6d xN, which is the only thing I think his dash acceleration would affect. That character doesn't spend a lot of time running anyway.
Poultrygeist Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 I find it hilarious that people are actually trying to argue and debate with SKD, one of the strongest and more knowledgeable BB players in 'Murica. "Just because you play the character doesn't mean that you truly understand how his/her/its gameplay works", words to live by, hurtful they may be lol. We all know who SKD is and why he has the reputation he does. WIth that in mind, why is it a bad thing to ask questions to someone more experienced? Especially considering how many of us (including myself) expressed interest in reading a more elaborate article from him just a page ago?
Hollysmoke Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 We all know who SKD is and why he has the reputation he does. WIth that in mind, why is it a bad thing to ask questions to someone more experienced? Especially considering how many of us (including myself) expressed interest in reading a more elaborate article from him just a page ago? It's a psychological issue; you're participating in a competitive scene to prove that you're better than other people. By asking a veteran questions, it's the equivalent of admitting you are WORSE than someone (which is why people also were trying to prove SKD wrong). Ergo, ego. It's not a bad thing to ask questions. It's how I got better.
Nemesis Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 Dusty played relius but he was a shot from death. He can still do 5b 6d xN, which is the only thing I think his dash acceleration would affect. That character doesn't spend a lot of time running anyway. OH you mean shots as in alcohol! anyways I got one more general question for you - Tell me about your experiences with ODR and how ppl used it successfully - how do you think it affects the gameplay and such. Im really interested in those insights
_Sey Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 I really liked how you went over and explained Relius/Jin/Izayoi options, SKD. How do you feel about Hazama's pressure? I feel like he's... somewhat like Jin? I mean, Hazama's pressure works around the same idea that (back)throw is your biggest focus and most threatening option but, unlike Jin, Hazama doesn't truly have a "threatening" option (well, not anymore/not in this version, although he's has somewhat higher "average" damage off midscreen frametraps) to try and stop you from upbacking/mashing if you have a 6f 2A or know how to deal with a lot of his options (e.g IB 5B and mash 2A or upback, challenging their 2A pressure if the Hazama can't frametrap with 2A 5C or 2A 2C, 5B delay xC, blabla). (obviously Hazama's A/Bs are better than Jin's looking at frame advantage alone and serve a different purpose blabla, I don't feel like typing too much rn lol) His command grab is strong because it compliments how his pressure works but is not necessarily a strong (damaging) option by any means... it's still a command grab though. Stance (214D~A tbh) is OK at best, it truly is mostly a way to just try and keep the pressure going or something you can throw out as a "quick" mix-up (e.g dash up 2A/2B xx 214D~A), "long" blockstrings into stance are pretty worthless. His 6A is obviously fast but not as fast as Jin's, but they do share a similar use/effectiveness. A good example of how someone is supposed to pressure with Hazama is (obviously) Mitsurugi, he often goes for really "quick" mix-ups foregoing any long blockstring while favouring going back to neutral if he doesn't land a throw/6A/something. Meanwhile I still remember one of the early CP2 set with Udon vs. Tetsuwo where Udon was totally off with his pressure, literally never scoring a hit because Tetsuwo knew exactly how to use fuzzy jumps, where to IB/barrier, etc while Udon focused too much on just making Tetsuwo block /SOMETHING/.
LaowPing Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 It's a psychological issue; you're participating in a competitive scene to prove that you're better than other people. By asking a veteran questions, it's the equivalent of admitting you are WORSE than someone (which is why people also were trying to prove SKD wrong). Ergo, ego. It's not a bad thing to ask questions. It's how I got better. I think you're assuming too much. It's not necessarily ego, some people just have a different idea of the game. If someone has one perception and someone else offers another, there is going to be conflict.
floatwater Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 Well yeah that's a thing. but egos definitely play a big part in why these discussions go to shit
Nemesis Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 Well yeah that's a thing. but egos definitely play a big part in why these discussions go to shit Thats a good observation! Using netplay statistics is like oh my goddddddddd why do people still do this SWD I see what you did there... Thats a clever way to lead up to making your own point!
LaowPing Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 To show that I am not completely hard on Terumi, he can look good in the hands of someone competent: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm25436991 Thank you for this video good sir. I'm adding this to my collection of "This character is not trash" videos. He lands a lot of those "bad" command grabs by the way.... any case anyone was wondering.
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