smooshman

we didn't get the worst of it, catching arakune's the hardest part, but it's not impossible.... if anything we actually have an easier time since ice stops him dead in his tracks. the reason it sounds bad is because we're discussing the other guy's advantage and not ours.

uh.... what:psyduck:? Ky isn't like Jin at all, his personality is difference, his playstyle is different... even their character designs are to the eye of someone who isn't color blind and can't determine shapes. Even then Ky's still badass.

5 Ren Hiroshi Konan Surushi Tetsu (assuming he does still main Jin)

gold and that should have been Mu's costume color.

the problem Jin gets is staying on Arakune is hard, if he gets away you spend a good chunk of the match playing hide'n'seek with him, and if Ara gets a curse..... well we all know what happens then. If Jin does hit him, he gains a large advantage and can control him with his good oki. I can believe 5-5 or 5.5-4.5 in eithers favor.

his 5D actually got slower, his EX attacks are nerfed (except for 623D which is now awesomer) his DP's have gained recovery and have terrible p1 proration (623C p1-50) but overall his ice sword zoning is effective against Ara. The reason I see it as 5-5 is that Ara's hard to get a hold of, he moves around a lot, and Jin lacks good range pokes to hit him, but once you have him it's pretty much done. Conversely, if Ara gets Jin in curse.... he's pretty screwed.

isn't that what the last.... 30 pages have been?

I look at it. yes 6B is +3 and 5B is 0, 2D and 6D are positive, his EX ice swords are positve...... etc. so to clarify my earlier statements without fluffy wording and rage: Jin isn't perfect:8/: 6A is an overhead, it could be better:8/: 6B is very useful, would be cool, but not neccassary, if it were an overhead Jin is good at pressure, other characters are better Jin's mixup is throw and crossup based mostly. EDIT: and if you didn't catch the under current I think Litchi cheats >_>

he's not a bad character, it just sounds like it when you talk about weaknesses, go figure. He's still solid, he's just a bit to heat reliant (duh). He does everything fairly well, his pressure is above average. he basically owns the corner with arguably the best corner combo (outside of Ragna, Bang, barbie). His major problem right now is that his poke (5C) is not the best, good, but every single one (okay not all) of Ragna's pokes can beat it clean, 2D can work at range, 5D..... not anymore, and at max range and no CH or heat there is no return damage; his other weakness is air control, air-air he's solid JC will beat a lot of things (not Haku lol) and JB will work to, but his G-A is.... meh; DP's work against high up enemies, but IAD's and jump ins are tough since either the move isn't fast enough (623B/623C) or it lacks IF's (623A). In the end he's solid, he really only has troubles against Bang&co. everyone else is about even or so.

........except his pressure isn't great, it's only good. on top of that there are characters who have better pressure AND mixup (I don't feel the need to say their names)..... Jin's pressure has more holes now. His 5C>JB is gone, but he gained j236C>airdash; 5D is......; 2D is faster and less punishable.... but it's smaller; 5C is faster (finally) but it has shorter reach (FFFFFFUUUU-); 5B is still solid; 6D is faster and is now more reliable for pressure. At this point Jin just can't compete with the characters who have good pressure (LITCHI:arg:). Now let's look at jin from a mixup stand point: high/low..... we've covered his overhead, so his lows.... 3C knocksdown, unsafe as hell; 2B -3, so not that punishable, P1 70 FFFFFFUUUUUU- crossup JB, J236D are good. tick throws he's actually really good at these..... to bad BB hates tick throws. Jin shines brightest when he actually hits you, then he has a lot of ways to control you. However the character that is better at it (litc-AGH) have major advantage (Litchi 7-3 Jin) in short: jin needs better mixup because his pressure doesn't compensate for it.

^even if it's sarcasm.... this..... kinda. My brother did that on accident when I did Jin's 6B actually.lol ..... screw it give 6A a (as in 1) gatling (in and out) and make it special cancellable on block. if not..... I guess J2C, JB, and JA are my overheads.... since they're actually fast... kinda.

there's no Bang frame data in the guides yet:vbang: so speed buff it, hell lower it to 20 and I'm set, 1 frame slower than 6A plus all the cool stuff it has (100 p1). The biggest problem would be it would make 6A obsolete and useless..... so convert that to something Jin needs, an effective antiair normal. I'm not asking for Ky's 6P or anything (but that be to good), but something that allows me to get decent damage off of it (623C 50p1:vbang:). EDIT: hey.... don't Tao and Bang have a overhead where they jump off the ground and roll towards you?

it's about the same speed as Ragna's... actually it's one frame slower, 25 on start up...... we're not all Bang players, mix up for is anything below 30F at this point.

all I said was 6B overhead:psyduck:.... or do you mean the 6B>6A thing? because that's on list of things that would w/e..

but it adds to the utility, if it lands overhead than you can combo, if not just keep pressuring. Alternatively, having a 6B>6A gatling, that would be nice.....

sure I do, but it only really pays off in the corner..... at mid screen you can only really push to the corner.... though I guess with enough heat you could do an ice arrow, or 623D>632146C. as for Lambda's overhead if you add the start up, the active of the first hit and the frames between them, you get 17 frames before the overhead vs jin's 19, BUT it isn't special cancellable, and has a long untechable time. EDIT: you beat me to the corner part. the reason 6B would be a good overhead is less to do with it's speed and more to do with the pressure you can do off of it, TK ice swords>air dash>J2C>2B or whatever would be quite scary. Lambda's overhead is tricky if you haven't dealt with it alot. I still get hit since it looks like a body hit. the p1 is 80, nice, p2 is 82 and 90. so does nice damage.

right let me correct myself (as I do tend to say something different than what I meant), what I essentially meant was the a overhead with such low reward should need to be RC'd.... I seriously think 6B should just become an overhead. Side note: everyone I fights blocks it on reaction (and online).... and I never use it:gonk:, mostly because it looks far different than the rest of his moveset. 2nd side note: I get hit by all overheads all the time..... I get hit by several lows, block low get hit overhead..... my yomi is shit:gonk: the reason Lambda's doesn't count because the first hit isn't an overhead, but the second is, so you would (and should) know that the next hit is overhead, and block accordingly.

last I checked he was mid-mid tier (before some of his better things were found [corner combo]), now he's probably closer to upper-mid. He's definitely not the same level as Tsubaki anymore.... lol. EDIT: also after checking some of the frame data the fastest ground overhead is Lambda's 4B....... but that doesn't really count. Ragna's 6B is rated as a -6 on block, special cancel, gatlings into 3C. Jin's 6A is -16 on block, is only 5 frames faster, and is only special cancel on hit. so.... yeah..... and the arguement that it's (6A) good if you have 50 heat to RC it is bull. That basically means you shouldn't go offense without 50 heat, 50 heat which is better spent on EX moves or ice arrows for an added 1000~ damage on a combo.... especially the corner combo.

and you wouldn't have to be stupid close to try and get contact, and you wouldn't be at -16 on block >_>. besides it special cancels into TK ice swords, which you can airdash after and do more pressure.... actually it would be a ridiculous overhead: +1 on block special cancel goes over lows good range problems are that it's slow, but so are all BB overheads, it also doesn't have any good ways to gatling into..... but still would make an awesome overhead just by virtue of how easy it is to make safe, and continue pressure.

speaking of sledge, learn what attacks you have that have projectile property, I believe for normals they're 5D 6D 2D and specials ice swords (duh) 632146D Tagers sledge goes through projectiles. also 632146C is a projectile but.... I don't think he can go through that.

as a player of a character who can IK aba (lolkylol) and with fastest IK..... no...... okay fine as for buffs to Ky: ...... not much to complain about, but guaranteed knockdown off LJ (instead of 90% of the time) more damage off his pokes (fS specifically) make greed sever not a terrible overhead (less unsafe, or faster, maybe a form of cancel) VT more IF's faster start up on stun dipper a bit more damage, just enought that fighting potemkin isn't like digging a mine with a toothpick and (lowest priority) have orb vacuum to over so it has the enemy over the center, better positioning for combos..... one or two of these would be nice; don't need all EDIT: also move the ground SE FRC to the same point as the ASE.

actually IIRC 2D is a + on block, and the bonus blockstun they get might be enough.... and it's not like I said to do it a lot, just once or twice.

I said on barrier, since it increases blockstun and moves you back to range to 2D which moves you back in range for 5C etc. it works as a gimmick and you can probably do it 2 times before they figure out to stop barrier guarding, then you 6C>dash cancel> tick throw.

one of the ways to practice fit confirm is to go to training and set the enemy to block randomly. as for pressure.... depends, on barrier you can (5C>2D)xN>6C>dash cancel> tick throw, 5C>5D>dash cancel>5C>JB>wait>JC>land>2B>5C>5D> tick throw etc. just set the dummy to block and just stay on him. also 236D is good pressure.