smooshman

the reason he can coexist with Jin is because he's not Jin, he's Jin from a different dimension, so he's not the same Jin

actually in the corner combo I saw Ren (I think) do a tech trap after 6D, so that when they teched he jumped up and green threw them.

2D is good as a poke only if you hit them on block, +5 frame advantage, but on hit........ 70p1 is not great, and if you miss..... you're fucked. 623C has great IF's and should only be used in either escaping pressre (if you have 25 heat 623D is better) and crossups, it's vertical hitbox is MASSIVE, it should easily hit anyone above. doing IAD 236D is a double crossup that is a great mix up tool 623A is still pretty good at scaring your enemy from jumping, it has 6 frame start up, which is a fast as 5A. 623B is good if they're attacking from the air.... but other than that Jin doesn't have great AA options; they have little return, 623B/D and even CH 623A can do damage in the corner, but 623B has 68p1 and 623A has 60p1, but 623D has 100p1 so.... that is some sweet shit to hit with in the corner.

well.... if you're not looking for combos, then Ky's fS is pretty good, ridiculous range, but doesn't lead to much damage.

that's always been there, just not in that exact spot.

so is Ky, Sol, OS is good is some areas (air throws alot) but Pot is the best.... and AI Eddie, Baiken, and Testament suffer from brain damage.

yeah, most people know their "really good" mtachups and their "really bad" matchups, but I doubt most people can remember 23 matchups immediately, so most people just learn the essential former matchups, and their funny matchups.

I know right? it's like I don't understand balance, I mean god forbid a character has a weakness, then things would be balanced. You're right I should play Bang, I mean I'm such a tier whore, that's why I played Jin before ever seeing the tier list. But don't worry, it's not like bitching is form of venting that leads to a clearer mind later and keeps people from ragequitting the game and not buying another one. But haters gonna hate, but don't worry, because I don't hate haters.

unfortunenately for you I decided to remove the rail spike that I had previously jammed in my head to numb the rage, so I already know that. I'm now tired of arguing about nothing.

whining allows me to argue, which entertains me:v:

I'm okay with this.

^thing is, you don't really get out of pressure, the enemy can tech at about the same time you recover, so the situation becomes more neutral and you don't gain any distance. I never said big damage, people. I said some and -15 is 25 less for the enemy to react and kill you, and 25 less frames from a moves start up. It's not much but it the same as saying, "well we might as well make it a -120 on block, not like it matters, same moves punish" it't the concept and yes Litchi doesn't get damage off her DP...... but you know what? she can get 3-4K meterless off of any other attack. Yes 623B/D can get damage IN CORNER, but the situation where you're being pressured in the by someone who's in the corner is rare. Besides, you're not always in the corner. I feel I've been misunderstood, what I say are suggestions, they don't all have to happen. lower p1 would be nice, so would less unsafe, so would longer untechable time, but all those would be stupid, even 2 would be ridiculous even, even 1 of those used to a small degree would be adaquete.

your so right, saying that being less unsafe (note DOESN'T MEAN SAFE, you know -35 instead of -40) and wanting some damage (even if only 2.5k) off a CH without spending 50 heat for an RC to get the same damage. why the fuck do people think I said safe? I meant less unsafe. For fucksake I never said + on block, just not retarded unsafe on block. Hell they could keep it the same on block if I get some damage in return, and I never said a lot goddammit, just some. 50 p1 is pretty shitty to even attempt a combo.... even just going for 60 p1 would be okay. is it to much to ask for a risk/reward proportionate DP/reversal? I mean it's not like I asking for it to do 2000 damage, +20 on block, and 150p1 people. I don't even really care about the -40 on block anymore.... I care there's no damage return at all, spending 50 heat on CH to scratch 2.5K is annoying. you know what FUCK IT NEVERMIND I'M OBVIOUSLY A CRAZY PERSON WHO NEEDS TO TAPE HIS HANDS TOGETHER TO KEEP FROM STABBING THE WALL. EDIT: after removing the hemorrhage this conversation has given me, I'll break this down logically RISK: eating a massive FC combo, and having to deal with more pressure/oki/etc. THEORETICALLYsome characters can counter with astrals on whiff. REWARD: you hit the enemy and they go straight up, and can tech about the same time you recover, on CH a little later, you cannot follow up with anything to get enemy away from you with out spending meter you could've used to do a better option.

again I don't want 'safe' just screwed on block and not fucked. Yes D DP is now Jin's best option for getting out of pressure, and iirc he actually gains heat faster than the average character, so it's likely you'll have the heat. Jin actually has several options with heat, D DP, TKj236D (risky), with 50 he can reversal with ice arrows..... oh and now he has yukikaze. So Jin has a lot of options to get out of pressure with with heat, like everything else, but without heat he's s.o.l., like everything else.

surprisingly, I agree:psyduck: in CT 623C had a disprortionate reward to risk, now it's the opposite, the risk is now worse with FC's, and the reward is rather low. It still does a fairly good job for it's purpose, I mean alot of characters don't even have meterless reversals.

........................wut? that doesn't make sense..... and no....... Qwerty:.........Vapor thrust is safer than inferno divider.....

............. it won't be like this forever.

fine......................... then just better return. I feel my point is still being missed.

no, I want a DP not uber retarded on block, and gives actual damage, on CH you can't do anything any more, even with RC..... 50p1 is......

I never said safe.........................I feel my point has been missed.

that's not escaping pressure..........

fixed. Astrals aren't even as punishable black onslaught is a -15 for example. also, does that mean I shouldn't even try to escape pressure without heat?

10 less frames for the opponent to do something.... actually looking at the frame data, it's only 1 frame more unsafe than inferno divider...... which has better damage return.

okay, Jin's drive data is moved to the right one box, so counter hit has the frame advantage, guard is in the level column, etc.

I didn't say that. I said not -40, it's not like I said +60 on block or some shit. hell even -30 would be okay.