OmnixTSC

Someone needs to get in contact with one of the mods and ask them to archive the old MU threads and make a new section for P4AU. Where is the Aki mod?

Watching some of Elochai's matches and taking into account some of my own from yesterday (which were absolutely terrible, I might add), I'm starting to realize just how useless Awakened SB Zio is at fullscreen if we don't push them to the corner during it. We're down 25 SP per use just to be in relatively the same neutral situation. I think I'm going to only do it every once in a while from now on or if I have meter left over afterwards and get the corner advantage. It's still fine as a punish, though.

It depends entirely on what string the Liz uses. It's not something I'd recommend doing, though, as most of her staggers kill any reversal mashing outside of 5A/2As and DP. Minazuki's 5B isn't fast enough to try to get out of staggers with it.

You need to alternate between 2B jump cancel and 2B > C+D based on the spacing on her j.B. It's something you really have to get in the habit of recognizing for it to be effective.

Labrys doesn't like this MU very much. Not to say it's really bad for her or anything, but it's rather annoying. Labrys can't set up bubble at basically any point unless Liz completely screws up. Her j.B can be clash OS'd (input as 2B > C+D), but you have to make sure she's not in an awkward position above you. All of her other neutral tools generally have issues against our own, so make it a habit of not letting Labrys get started. Avoid overusing j.B, as the lag time in the air will give her time to approach if you fail to at least make her block it. You don't want Labrys near you unless you're the one on the offensive. Stagger pressure her as hard as possible. She basically just has to deal with it b/c of her frame data. Avoid using 5B much as she can roll past that or low profile it with her sweep. I'd recommend using 2A+B instead of 5B for the most part. Just be aware of the fact that Labrys can 2B our hop-cancel pressure. Use dc5C(1) to discourage a Labrys from using sweep as an answer to your pressure and 5D to discourage the rolls (or just throw).

Afaik, the optimal throw > OMC combo route is: C+D > OMC > 662C > (Delay) 2B > (Delay) 5B > IAD j.B > 5B > 2 > 214A > 2B (Bomb Explodes) > sj.IAD > j.236D~A/B/AB (3021~ Damage / 7 SP) for when you stay midscreen and C+D > OMC > 662C > (Delay) 2B > (Delay) 5B > IAD j.B > 2B > 5 > 214A > 5B > j.5 (Bomb Explodes) > dj.236C~A/B/AB (3268~ Damage / 7 SP) for when you reach the corner early The alternative to this near corner route is just: C+D > OMC > 665B > IAD j.B > 2B > 5 > 214A > 5B > 2C > j.C > dj.2B (Bomb Explodes) > j.236C~A/B/AB (3241~ Damage / 7 SP). This is the 5AAA route I use in the corner (works on everyone): 5AAA > 214A > 5C > 5B > 2C > j.C > dj.2B (Bomb Explodes) > 5 > 236C~A/B/AB (2981~ Damage / 43 SP)

The damage and positioning isn't worth the resources you need in order to do this. I tried testing this last month and got some help trying to make it optimal, but it's only worth it if you can squeeze poison into the combo...which is only consistent off of very specific confirms (most of which being fatals). In general it's just not worth it, as you don't get enough blue health back, you blow a lot of meter, and the optimal routes aren't consistent enough or common.

Is there anyone that's confirmed going for P4AU or BB? I'd like to know in advance just in-case I can make it.

Zio really isn't that strong in this matchup. Yukari has so many things that discourage using Zio as our go-to neutral tool that it's not worth relying on. I'd recommend slowly moving forward and conditioning her to use certain movement options. Just let her setup if she's not doing something that's easy to recognize and punish with Zio, as her mixup isn't strong. I haven't seen anything that'd make me think this MU is easier than the Yukiko one. We can more reliably use Zio and Agi there, where as we can barely use Zio against a competent Yukari outside of punishing landing recovery most of the time and non-awakened Agis get blown up really easily. Making a poor call on a ground or air Zio will lead to us getting CH, which can lead to a full combo as long as you're not fullscreen (and you don't want to sit fullscreen against Yukari anyways). In awakening, Yukari has to respect our Zios much more, but we have to get into awakening first to even make that an issue. j.B is fine, just don't overextend yourself with it. I prefer using j.A personally since it recovers so much faster and can deal with her air approaches well enough. Oh, and almost every special that we can use at neutral can be punished by Hyper Feather Shot on reaction (if she has 100 SP and you get hit by one of these midscreen, expect to take a least 6k). That's another reason to avoid using too many of them and just being patient.

Make sure to avoid as many counter hits as possible in this matchup more than others, as two CHs is the end of the round for Liz. Get into the habit of recognizing when you took a bad jump or air dash arc and DON'T PRESS ANYTHING. I can not stress enough how much this has been saving me when I play against Margaret. For neutral...awakened Agis are somewhat useful (especially SB to completely gimp her approach and bring her closer), but you have to use them sparingly as they will lose to sweep and spear. B Zio is okay at times, but she can get a free card off of you using this more often than not. SB is relatively fine, but the spots where you'd be able to use it will rarely ever punish anything. Just try to work your way in and avoid taking big hits, as her defensive options aren't great against Liz. So when you do get in, watch her meter. This generally won't happen until she hits awakening, but Margaret can always react to or call out something with a super during Thanatos pressure and be entirely safe with 100 SP. The way we seem to deal with this is just using 2C to armor the super or just hard baiting it. Meaty 2C oki seems really useful against her, as you don't have to worry about wake-up super most of the time with it. That's all I got for now, but I'll have more after I get more matches in with Rath and LK.

Sorry I'm late with the feedback (3-4 days since I told you I'd watch these, haha). Some of this will be based on the matches you had with ChosenNinja, as I rewatched some of those. The only specific information I can give about the Yosuke MU atm is to just avoid throwing things out for the sake of having them out. Set things up in response to a Yosuke exhausting his air actions or just avoid overextending yourself at neutral. You really have to play conservatively with how mobile he is in combination with the recovery on Yukari's moves.

As far as I know, it's been canceled. Sorry about that

Persona punishes mashing really hard! Don't think you proved anything with your victory, as that won't happen again! (ggs btw, I just wish the connection was better orz)

The things that I don't like about (whiff) 2AB > 5AAA is how we sacrifice not just damage, but also oki and screen positioning at times just to get a small SP bonus. I can see it having some situational usage based on what you're trying to accomplish, but it's not something I expect to see often.

If you can start a hama combo without using OMB and your opponent has a burst, sometimes it's worth doing. It depends on the player you're up against and their burst habits, but I can see this situation coming up occasionally. It's really important to know hama routes this time around. You guys should at least be able to hama off of multiple starters, with or without OMB, near the corner as it's much easier than going for midscreen ones. With midscreen hamas, you have to know the specific routes for each starter to avoid going over the SMP limit.

It's just another option for staggers, though you're better off doing 5Bdc, 5B > 5C, or 5B > 5Cdc in most cases. There's not as much of a threat with 5BB. I think you meant 2A > 2B > dj.B > j.A > j.C? It's something you'll just have to practice. It's not that bad. I'd recommend avoiding use of SB Garu in pressure. It doesn't offer anything different from our stagger pressure and costs meter. It's also easier to disrespect or flat out avoid the follow-up with backdash. Also, you give your opponent free meter as they can just IB the entire garu until the end without worrying about anything. The threat from using SB Garu isn't there.

If Yukiko hits with a persona attack and you IK them, she can just cancel into DP and invul the catch frames. For the supers, she'll more often than not recover in time to DP the IK or OMC > DP if she has an additional 50 SP. Our IK realistically still isn't worth using.

So apparently, I was wrong about the guardpoint on 5D and 2D. It seems like it actually has full guarpoint until either move's first active frame. Can anyone else test this to confirm it?

This is one of the reasons I get into the habit of counting seconds in order to time different things until my muscle memory is on point. It really helps a lot. What I do for the poison route is a 4 count. 1-3 is from inputting 236CD and hitting up-forward for the first second. When I reach 4, I immediately hold down/down-forward and go from there. It's been consistent for me since I started it. Also, there's a visual cue for when you need to switch to down/down-forward if you wish to go this route. The animation on the garu will change at the exact time where you need to start moving downwards to link 2D > 2A, so this is another way you can try to time it. I hope one of these, helps.

Like Fenrir said, make sure you learn the fuzzy guard OSes that LK brought up. There's a thread for it with links and explanations in the P4A Gameplay section. Outside of those, I don't really know any character specific OSes for Yukari. I'm sure there are some for rolls and such, but I haven't experimented with those yet.

I just want to point out that Margaret's 5D and 2D don't have invul. They both have guardpoint, which is completely different. 5D has two hits of armor and 2D has only one. This means that if you mash on either of them, the hitstop from touching the persona will give you extra time to visibly identity the situation you've been put into (you can jump cancel after hitting the persona if need be). Also, unlike Liz's 5D, we can actually roll past Margaret's 5D since it takes a long time to become active. I'm personally not enjoying what Margaret has outside of her neutral (which is kind obnoxious and hilarious). She has a lot of options for dealing with different neutral situations, but I can't seem to find anything else she has going for her.

I'm curious. Has everyone been actively using the 2B > 9 > 5B OS for hitconfirming anti-airs? It's been brought up before, but I don't see many Yukari players making use of it. For those that are having trouble with it, you can work on practicing it by setting up two recordings on a training dummy and just having them both jump at the same time. Set one to block and the other to just jump. Then you can work on smoothly going through the sequence and confirming the hit or continuing pressure while playing them back through the random recording. It's definitely something worth learning and can help out a lot.

Hmm, I actually...got over that really quickly. Well, let's get on to the stuff you're here for. It's not worth it. It doesn't offer anything that the 5C/2C variants don't already and you lose options if it's blocked. You confirm into really basic stuff on hit: Midscreen/Fullscreen (based on ranges): 5C > OMC > (Delay) 5C (Hits) > 2C > 214B or 214AB when you won't reach the corner; works on air hit/CH 5C > OMC > (Delay) 5C (Hits) > 5D > Stuff when you won't reach the corner and 2C will whiff; only works on CH 5C > OMC > 2C (Hits) > 214B or 214AB works everywhere except really jank spacings 5C > OMC > 2C (Hits Late) > 5C > 2C > 214AB for when you catch a roll and the screen will not move any farther There's a bunch more, but this is some basic stuff. Just keep in mind that you don't need to OMC if you're sure your opponent will get hit without it. You also don't want to do this frequently, as you get better pressure options from letting someone punish Thanatos at fullscreen and using 214D while the opponent is recovering. Just being patient and waiting for them to do something without caring about the card loss is an option, too (saves you meter and you go back to the neutral game).

Sorry for the late reply, I'm mentally exhausted because of...various things that have come to my attention recently. Hmm, an example of that would be just forcing someone to block Thanatos at fullscreen with 5C. At this point, you want to choose what option you're going to condition your opponent to attempt avoiding. 5D or 2C are the most obvious alternating options that you can make use of, as 5D punishes preemptively downbacking 2C, and 2C beats late jumps on a 5D that isn't there. With meter, however, we can add more layers to that pressure. Say for instance you start off with 5C in a similar fashion. If your intent is to OMC in order to catch something, you can do so in various ways. I'll list the ones I can think of off the top of my head: 1) 5C > OMC >(Delay) 5C - The most standard use for OMC. Catches people trying to punish the persona call for a nice CH confirm. 2) 5C > OMC > 5D - Catches people over-respecting 5C x N, 5C > 2C, and 5C > OMC > 5C. Much weaker against opponent's that actively watch Liz's animations. 3) 5C > OMC > 2C - I...actually don't know when we'd do this one. In this scenario, 2C would fulfill the same function as 5C: catches attempts to punish Thanatos. Hmm, I guess it would catch rolls at some spacings/timings Instead of just throwing one of these out (which I did at least twice earlier today), we should be doing the above in order to punish our opponent's habits. We get a lot more out of it by doing so and the use of meter is more of a calculated risk than one that will generally yield nothing. I'm probably going to stay away from Dustloop for a bit in order to...recover my mental state, haha. If any of you need anything, just tweet at me or something.

Dustloop is great.