OmnixTSC

Aw, I saw this too late. I wouldn't have minded helping out with commentary or entering the tournament. Been kinda ignoring netplay in general. Can I request being added if someone else drops from the tournament later?

That isn't something that's applied to VNs in general. That's just the way they handled the story for P4U in particular. A lot of VN's have a lot of variety when you choose a different route and others don't. It happens. The story's flaw was that it recreated the same scenario a number of times without any major differences. A number of the characters did the exact same thing, with only their interactions being slightly different. That's not enough of a reason to warrant a player/reader having to sit through something like that multiple times. Some of the conversations being drawn out didn't help, either.

Ender is usually 5C > 2C > Agi oki or 5C > 2C > SB Zio > (Delay) Agi. You can even do 5C > Meaty Agi as an ender if it's a FC and 2C won't reach (or on other combos that aren't prorated too badly). I usually go for 5C > 2C > Agi myself.

Isn't threatening on crouching in P4U2, right? Did anyone ever confirm/deconfirm whether or not 5C > SB Bufu worked on crouching? I don't remember seeing anyone ever do it, so I just assumed it was 3 frames too late to connect in P4U2. In P4A, you did get fear, knowdown, and oki if you were reasonably close on 5C > A Bufu with a crouch confirm (about half a screen away). It gave you 3k+ damage, too. As for whether 5C matters in the corner, it does in P4A. 5C > A Zio > OMC > Damage+Oki. It's a shame we can't really do that in P4U2 without fear pre-patch. Maybe we can get something worthwhile off of it post-patch? I don't know, it's possible we could have gotten something off of it pre-patch if not for 5C having so much SMP.

That's funny and all, but... ... ... I.SURE.HOPE.YOU.ARE.JOKING.GOOD.SIR.

The problem with her tier placement is mostly b/c of her 3 bad MUs that got slightly worse/better (still all look 7-3 to me). Other than that, she's fine tier-wise. As for D Garu...it made sense for her to lose D Garu loops. They're silly and do too much damage off of the worst starters in P4A (you can go into loops meterless off of a 5A starter with or without a crouching confirm). The problem is that when they took away Liz's damage, they didn't actually "fix" her. She had combos without the loops, they just took some meter unlike the loops which could be entirely meterless, give you 4-6k, and still let you have some kind of oki. It's something that was unnecessary and silly. I wouldn't want those back if I had a choice. As for Labrys, that was actually something she NEEDED. Axe meter is vital to her everything, so starting with none of it when it's already difficult enough to maintain said meter in a lot of matchups is absurd.

Considering arguably 3 of those matches were bad matchups, I think he did okay (he beat the Teddie at least) I'm not sure Liz would ever have the meter for that in this version. Just going for a combo after the air throw would probably be more beneficial unless the Wail flat out killed them. Too bad we can't use just frame sweep > D Garu anymore after a CH/FC air throw pre-patch, though. Might be able to have an actual combo off of it post-patch

It's not a random D if you're reacting to the projectile. Sometimes, the invul you get from using a drive on a projectile is more important than setting up Fuumajin. Your 2D, 5D, and j.D are also faster than any of the normals you can use to cut projectiles. It's better to use the drives when you have less time to react to projectiles or you're expecting to get punished.

I hope you guys can get this down to where you can do it somewhat consistently and reliably. This seems like a neat tool to add to your arsenal. As far as whether or not it's a glitch goes...I think it's not? It's basically just kara-canceling 5D into stuff. It's not like it beats all options or anything absurd. Seems perfectly fine to me and could even be a neat little trick hidden for the players to find and utilize.

It's only harder on netplay against Chie, honestly. Maybe that's just me? Even then, I don't drop loops on Chie unless I'm just out of practice or the connection is bad. Humorously enough, my friends and I laugh when I play Liz. It's sometimes, "Man, I got robbed by Liz that game," on their side or, "I totally stole that game from you with Liz being dumb, " from my side. I recall both of these being dropped at least 2-3 times each when I streamed yesterday. It's rare for me to have to make a come back on damage, though. Most of the time, one person gets outplayed or just loses out on the exchanges instead of me just riding Liz's damage to the top. Liz's oki being silly helps, too. With that being said, I feel like we could possibly have the same problem that we had in P4U player-wise depending on how her damage or combos were buffed. We have damage to overshadow our faults. "I don't really need to fix my neutral or button placement when I can land one hit and potentially win the round." I honestly don't think it'll come to that as I don't think they want our damage to be THAT high. Even if the damage is substantial enough, players are going to have to get past that allusion to Liz only having damage. I feel that at least with the post-patch version of Liz, players will be more prepared to not rely solely on damage and will be able to grow more which is what we need for her to be played at a high level anyways. At the end of the day, though, it's up to the players. I could just be preaching to the choir Edit: The Liz that was linked most recently in the video thread (thank you Elochai) is impressive. We need more players like this. Patient enough, knows how to confirm pretty well, and utilizes her tools in neutral (though he/she does seem to not use Agi much). Those reads were pretty good, too. Kudos to this player for doing well and learning the stuff Liz does have.

They're quality of life buffs instead of actual fixes for the character. It's a start, though. We'll see how these pan out come next week, hopefully.

Him debunking the previous theory. He's right, too. Except Makoto should be at like #2. Also, this entire list should be topped off with NRS characters. To stay on topic...I will update the pastebin this weekend (along with my Hakumen one). Just not sure how much I'll get done.

This right here

Silence is definitely going to be important. I'm going to really enjoy making use of that.

I forgot about that pastebin I was supposed to make. Sorry, guys I'll get to it eventually, I promise.

Busted b/c everything your opponent could do when put in that situation was a gamble that could lead to their death. It's not right, man (though I loved doing that to people).

Her corner oki was literaly busted. It didn't matter how much damage you did to them in order to get them in the corner. It could be an auto-combo and it made no difference. Now you're in the corner and your opponent is dealing with fear and/or Agi oki. And possibly paralysis, freeze, or poison. Also, maybe confusion. Also...Liz might have all the meter in the world at this point. Also, Liz still has a burst! Yaaaaaaay *cough* I'm saying all this b/c there are a lot of Liz players that complain about things that aren't actually issues or don't capitalize on things they should. People don't know combos, they don't do proper pressure, and they refuse to punish things properly. This was true for Liz players regardless of iteration. Her damage was busted in P4U, though. That alleviated some of the need to do proper stuff b/c you could do 4 lackluster combos and nearly die, then win the round b/c someone tried to chicken block 2C and died in the corner while you had a crap ton of meter. I'm not holding that against anyone b/c that version of Liz let you do that and was geared towards that, but it's still kind of depressing to see that as the only thing people can rely on at times

A lot of, and I mean a LOT of Liz players in P4U got by on her damage and nothing else. She's getting some of that back now.

Our neutral was better in this game, though? Outside of dealing with Based Diamond Wyvern Messiah sword normals. 5B literally lead to death in most cases in P4U. Why would this be a good idea, haha. Also, our neutral game actually did improve a bit from P4U to P4U2...we just lost the oki and mixups we got off of said neutral in the last game Anyways, I'm happy. Now we get to see more Liz players fraud out people instead of outplaying them and we get to watch the good/decent Liz players actually bop people by outplaying them! I think...

Patch notes were released. Go, go, go!

I find it hard to believe that Chie is the only character you have trouble blocking when characters like Narukami and Aigis are in the game I wonder what the new patch is going to be like, though. I think Liz's Garus should stay nerfed, but we need to be able to get damage somewhere. They really should just update the way Liz's meter works in this game.

I'll update my pastebin again later tonight. I'm getting to where I want to be as far as content goes. I didn't forget about my frame traps, oki, or pressure vids that I promised a month or so ago. I'm finishing up most of the notes for those. I've kind of been waiting for the patch to drop to do those even though most of the material will be the same. I'm really nitpicking it, though I'm going to ask you guys if you'd prefer me just updating and re-uploading the videos I'd be making after the patch drops (which wouldn't take too much effort) instead of waiting so long to do them.

Neat. Later today, I'll compare these to the combos I use to note the damage differences and then put it all in a pastebin.

Agreed. We should try to at least keep the gameplay discussion as the focus (though I aided in all of this off-topic nonsense ) So, is there a comprehensive list of optimal combos for all of our starters? I'm curious, as I'd just write up my own list with all that I know and what I've seen if there isn't already one (after I finish the Hakumen one, anyways).

B-but...the backdash OS makes an RC viable off of 3C! And there's using it for safety in some situations, like ones where Kishuu will get you CH or killed! Who am I kidding? Haku doesn't use RCs