Myoro

Gotta ask, where'd this list even come from? At the risk of being too demanding, I'd like to know who wrote this and how consistently valid their tier lists prior to now have been. Beyond that I'd love to hear the reasoning behind all of the placements once there's an educated consensus met to where they should be placed. I've kinda been outta the loop with the ways the characters have been drifting in CP2.

Ah thanks!

What are the four directions on this chart? Is it still Good ^ I Has weaknesses<------------I----------->Has strengths I V Bad Or is this chart something different? If it's not a Tager chart what must the Tager mean? Whatever the case it should be taken with a grain of salt being the very early stages of the game.

There've been times when I'm trying to use an Ignis move and instead I de-summon her. It's the same kind of embarrassing feeling you get when you're in the midst of a deep philosophical discussion during a walk with a friend, and you hit your head on a metal bar sticking out of the back of a parked truck right as you say something super deep and meaningful. In retrospect, I realize the analogy here is rarer than the actual subject.

It can still be jumped like most of his stuff for a weighty punish. 2D>B can be ley'd for punish. If you do block it and for some reason he doesn't cancel into things, just 66>236A to voip through is DP for a punish. Look out for delays. Everything he does can be baited and punished. Everything.

I think Tsubaki just needs more opportunities to charge while being a rush-down like she was intended. I mean, at this point is it really productive for her to be like "Oh wait a moment, I need to kick back and do some light reading" mid battle or to stay on top of the opponent and deal nearly equivalent damage to what she'd have with stocks? Now at the risk of calling Bullet and Izayois drives "intellegent" in their design, I'd think Tsubaki's could take a note from those two. I think Tsubaki should have a couple ways to gain resources without sacrificing her gameplan, the command grab was a move in the right direction. Perhaps if her normal specials gave a tiny amount of stock on hit block or whiff, or if she had small passive gain... IDK. More chances to get stock while on the go, more sensible reasons to use stock. That's my idea. Anyway, it's funny coming from me of all people, but this is the general thread, should we be going on this tangent?

Still getting 7K from BH. Not so salty cuz it needs 100HT and OD, but I was hoping that was out, or at least prorated much better. I digress, Koko is lookin' really interesting this time around, looking at this. Might pick her up.

Low jumps might mean jump loops work on more people! That millimeter may may a big impact. Rising stuff that didn't work might work sooner, falling stuff might also happen sooner. Only time and discovery will tell. Anyone know if this is a universal change or not?

I don't think it got slower at all, I was debating to myself if it looked faster 'till now.

6B head invuln looks super good. I mean scary good. RYO uses it here right after Counter Assault here to just woosh straight through Mu's j.C. Beautiful. just, beautiful. 2C wouldn't have worked there. This is a work of art my friends.

Some characters like Carl the 22C>2D did work, but you couldn't reach him in time with 6C.

"Fast" and "Normal" Prolly Fast is probably their terminology's equivalent to a S starter.

I had a thought. If our dash speed has increased, 5B>3C>236C~214A>22C>2D>66C>41236B>5B>5C(2)>sj>j.B>j.C>j.236C~j.214B should work on more people right? That is if ~214A's recovery still allows for linking into 22C... EDIT: but wait. our 2D's air hit effect changed... Perhaps we can link it into 5B then? What does 2D even look like on air hit now?

While it may be true 2D is slowed down, 4D and 3D (alledgedly) still hit low and are fast. He should still have unblockables if this is the case. As for the legitimacy of said unblockables, I couldn't tell you, I am now, as I have always been, not a Carl player. I think New Fuoco is gonna help his neutral and doll movement quite a bit, so that's one weakness fixed. Relius isn't really too hurt by all of this. He did lose his ability to solo combo with 6B, but he still retains the ability to deal nearly 4K solo with meter, and 3.2K off of air hits and counter-hit C moves. 6B is now head invuln at a certain point, and just having a complementary anti air to our now jump cancele-able on block 2C is gonna be huge for Relius' defense. TBH 6B combos only happened off of point blank 5B and falling air normals, unless you're trying explicitly to do them, 6B combos were fairly uncommon to begin with. It's very common for a Relius to get 50% meter before he loses access to Ignis, which in turn makes him a damage threat, even when she's not out. I don't think Rel will even drop a tier unless everyone else becomes leagues more powerful than they were in 1.1, but as I don't have my hands on him that's just speculation. Unlike Rachel and Valk, Relius' Ignis' regen didn't take a hit, so it takes like 4~8 seconds depending on what state Ignis was in when she left. Rachel may actually have to zone her opponent while she gets wind. It's gonna be interesting seeing her gameplay evolve beyond "block 5 fuzzies in a row or I get my wind back and we start over." One way to solve this stuff is to make sure you don't run out of resources, and to that end I've made a myriad of combos that take only take 1~1.3K Ignis, but deal 3.6~4K damage. What Relius lost in solo confirms, he gained twofold in low cost combos. The addition of Id Zein and 2C jump cancel is gonna bump his damage up considerably, while remaining cost effective. On the bright side we both got new gimmicks in lightening bats and sandwiches. And knowing the characters we play these are gonna turn out crazy good in the long run.

Well if IAD fits into the beginning part at all, that puts us at about solid midscreen for this, which is amazing considering that's half a screen carry for 1300 IG. For this combo to get to the corner you just need to have the corner in sight by the time you use j.236C. Since you keep the forward mobility of dash jumping and you get to do a small dash as you land, you can close the gap from there to the corner in time for 5B>2C to connect. My goal is more to land us a 3C ender for Ignis Desummon/Ignis oki/Distortion ender. If I can get 5B>3C>IAD+6D>j.B>66>rising j.B>j.C>j.236C>665B>2C>6C>41236B>5B>2C>236C>663C [3509DMG/+25HT/1300IG] to work on everyone, That would be superb. Spacing dependent? Yes, but it allows for an extremely large zone, and is confirmed from 5B>3C>jump+6D>j.B which is our pressure cycle, perhaps the most easy and common confirm a Relius could ask for! This all effectively means our corner game starts at the middle of the stage if we score a grounded hit, because if you confirm it right you get 3C knockdown in the corner from precisely midscreen. For 1.3K Ignis no less! That shaves an additional 1K IG off our normal Bnb! This is fantastic! And if you misjudge the distance you can confirm the 66>rising j.B>j.C into 6B>sj>j.B>j.C>j.236C~j.214B>airdash for [2875DMG/+20HT/-2300IG] or straight into j.236C~j.214B>airdash for [2589DMG/+18HT/-2300IG] One more note: if you're doing a midscreen combo near the corner and you're about to do a j.214B ender, if you're close enough, you can substitute the j.214B with a 4D>3C when you land. This even works from super-jump height and in our normal Midscreen Bnb. Same cost, same heat gain, but you lose 19 damage and get 3C Oki.

Suddenly I'm a lot more okay with her getting 3K from that move.

I was experimenting with 22A combos from 6C, but then I was like "Wait a minute... Why would anyone ever want to use 22A over 41236B in a combo?" I suppose that was back when 41236B had that horrendus pull that made foes go over your head and outta the corner. I try not to remember those times. I found that 22A>5A/5B/3C would only ever be used off of 4Ds, and that even then it would be impractical because you'd spurn a lot of combo time for what was essentially just 5B (seriously 22X has the same damage P1 and P2 as 5B) I concluded that the only time 22A/B/C should be used is to get Oki is certain situtions, to bounce the opponent into 4D and 236C has already been used, you wanna follow up 4D with superjump>j.B>j.236C~j.214B, for that one 10 character combo, or for style points. Thanks for testing it! It seems really really good just from my trying it. After awhile it's about as easy as our normal Bnb to me. Small edit: any point blank 663C>forward jump sideswaps, unless the opponent is jumping or barriering. Not only is this useful in mix-ups, solo or otherwise, but this works in combos too: 5B>6D>663C>6D+jump>j.B>665B>2C>6C>41236B>665B>5C(2)>sj>j.B>j.C>j.236C>j.214B>airdash works (the side swap is right after the 3C obviously) Naturally Stuff>point blank 663C>jump+6D>j.B>66>j.B>j.C>j.236C>5B>stuff works as a sideswap into damage making+Ignis saving combo

We got a real fun one here! Humongous screen carry for a 1.3K IG combo (Works from the opponent's starting point.) Great damage too. 5B>3C>jump+6D>j.B>66>rising j.B>j.C>j.236C>665B>2C>6C>41236B>3C [3201DMG/+22HT/-1300IG] ^This is confirmed to work off of Airdash j.B>j.C>5B>3C. Confirmed to work from max range 3C. It's beautiful. Note that the commonly used alternitive at the same cost of 1300 midscreen 5B>3C>6D>j.B>2C>6C>41236B>3C does 2693 DMG and gets 19 HT You can even add a 236C~214A>663C onto the end for [3531DMG/+25HT/-2300IG] Which is basically our normal Bnb with a 3C ender and a little more damage. I got 5B>3C>jump+6D>j.B>66>rising j.B>j.C>j.236C>665B>2C>6C>41236B>5B>2C>236C>663C to work on Jin for [3509DMG/+25HT/1300IG] But I don't know if it'll work on anyone else. Necro, I'd like to see if you could 5B>3C>6D+IAD>j.B>66>rising j.B these to extend the screen carry to precisely midscreen or beyond.

Well it's good that someone does. =) Speaking of combos I have an auto-pilot fix for the corner. Say you did 2B>5B>3C>Jump+6D as a corner string, but you actually hit on 5B or 3C. Fret not for I have made this little Ignis saver. 5B>3C>jump+6D>j.B>j.236C>5B>2C>236C>5B>2C>6C>41236B>3C [3556DMG/+25HT/-1300IG] Ignis cheap and stylish! Remember if you can confirm 3C into 236C~214A you get 450 more damage for 300 less Ignis, so still work towards proper confirms! As a side note: Our 4B+C corner combo has been outdated with this newer, better version that might also work in 2.0. 4B+C>5B>6B>TKj.236C>5B>2C>6C>236C>3C [3210DMG/+23HT/NoIG]

Nah, you never put 41236B that far at the end of a combo, that's bad news all around. Where did you hear the timer nerf thing from BTW, because I heard about it on the Carl thread, and when I asked there seemed to still be some mystery about it. Anyway, The combo's I'd use in that situation would prolly be something like: 6B+C>236C~214C>41236B>2C>TKj.236C>663C or maybe 6B+C>236C~214C>6C>41236B>2C>TKj.236C>663C They look like they might net a bit more damage if they work. It could fall apart if they tech before the 2C though. I psudo tested it in CP1.1 using rapids again, and substituting 214C with 214A. the 6C>41236B doesn't work with the replacement 214A very well so I'll have to wait to test that. So despite 3C being non jump cancelable are we still using it as an ender? EDIT: So because of the 6B changes, our back to the wall Grab combo is gonna see the following change. What used to be 4B+C>41236B>6B>TKj.236C>5B>2C>6C>236C>3C [3134DMG/+22HT/NoIG] Becomes 4B+C>41236B>5B>6B>TKj.236C>5B>2C>6C>236C>3C [3210DMG/+23HT/NoIG] You can exclude the second 5B completely which makes this combo 5X easier to do IMO, but you miss out on exactly 69 DMG and 1 Heat if you do. This new combo is possible in CP1.1, so if you wanted to, you could switch now since it's better in every way. It actually working in 2.0 of course relies on the various other changes I may be over-looking. In 2.0 4B+C>41236B>5B>2C>TKj.236C>5B>2C>6C>236C>3C is also a distinct possibility. I tested it with a Rapid. It does [3384DMG/+?HT/NoIG] Because of the Rapid I couldn't get an accurate Heat number. EDIT#2: Another Combo I'd like to see tested is this Midscreen to corner combo: 5B>3C>6D>665B/665C>2C>6C>236C>665B>2C>TKj.236C>663C Works in CP1.1 if you Rapid the 2C. Does 3234DMG for 1300IG. Looks super cool, and it works from about the same max range from the corner 5B>3C>236C~214A>665B could be used from.

Don't know if this was already here, but I'll post it anyway. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnquflNjd48 J.D loops lookin pretty slick.

So Grab>236C~214C>662C>TKj.236C>2C>6C>22A>4D>3C happened. Was like 3.6K for 2K IG. None too shabby. Grab>236C>Rapid>5D>662C>TKj.236C>2C>6C>22A did like 3K Stealth buff: 236236D sounds a lot more painful now.

I mean 2D is a frame trap, so properly timed it should cross up. (IDK if twice) Anyhow, I have yet to see 2D's new air hit effect. It sounds neat. Grabs are 6~7 frames, they're not gonna hurt us in a 1 frame gap (4 if IB'd) unless we're talkin Tager or Bullet here. (Bang is exempt because we'll be in Ignis' hit-box and he'll get countered when he teleports behind Relius) Could you link the vid you're talkin' about? =3

Good to know.

Looks like Stuff>5C>6C>236C works on crouch. Knowing tao, if we can get them launched we can get them comboed. Just gotta learn what gatlings into 6C. Also is it me or might knockdown on Encore be more useful? I know stagger lets you instantly set up high/low, left/right, and bait DP stuff, But if you can catch the opponent's rolls, you get them airborne where Tao does her greatest work in combos.