Myoro

Question about frame data. Say a move has 3 actives and 17 recovery. If it hits on the first active, are the 2 active frames after added to the recovery making it 19? or has it already be accounted for and hitting on the last active will make the recovery 15? Can someone explain?

Well in netplay, DP>Rapid>DP is considered mix-up and DP>Rapid>DP>Rapid>DP is advanced mix-up. I'm not at all surprised Rel's Mix would be considered godly there. =D I try to never complain, unless I'm working to solve what I'm complaining about. Yeah, Tsubaki's not the best, that may or may not change in the coming years. What we know can change on a dime is the person playing Tsubaki, so the solution to that is to learn as much as one can and become stronger as a player or just switch characters.. If people take that to heart there should be no more qualms.

His pressure is pretty fantastic, but his overheads are 6A and falling air normals. I hear people talking about how easy it is to just wait it out until Ignis is drained. To go further upon that, grabbing has limited utility as it removes Ignis and blue-bars her, he can use cross-up j.B with some minor setting up, but most of getting through the opponent's guard is frame trapping or baiting a DP.

What would you describe as productive discussion then? =/ As an aside Rel's Mix-up is fairly sub-par outside of his corner fuzzy. I'll concede his damage is pretty good as despite its cap being low-end, he can easily confirm into 2.7K+ midscreen and 3.5K+ in the corner from most moves and can get an extra 1K on good starters, but his unblockables are all avoidable with proper teching DP-ing and lack thereof. I feel as if TD was mostly right.

I don't think you got the message perhaps. We're not saying everyone should be high tier (Which is impossible) or have set-play. We're saying we feel that Rel strikes a good balance between effort and reward, and is strong without being too strong. He's also got weaknesses too that won't let him completely shut out a savvy opponent. His gauge system also works as gauges are intended, granting him access to moves with many utilities, while having the drawback of having to be managed and Rel being disadvantaged without it. Of course not all characters should be 5:5 with one another, and of course not all characters should play like Rel. Characters can have different tools and different ways of being powerful, but I feel like everyone should be balanced somewhere near the area of his "Reasonably strong, with weaknesses. Definitely can win, but has to work for it" Oh yeah, and someone's gonna have to define set-play for me. I know it as characters who use cause and effect to determine their actions, and it seems like everyone arguably has a bit of that.

I always called the first part "Gauntlet" and the second part "Hades"

They, like us, are prolly waiting to play the completed version before they complain about it too much. And don't worry about Rel too much Necro, whatever comes our way, we'll make the best of. We may even come away with a stronger character after all is said and done. Though I agree I want nothing more than to solve the mystery that is Id Zein. WHAT COULD IT DO THAT THE OTHER'S CAN'T?

I dunno enough about valk to say much here, but you make it sound like Rel is bad. Last I heard Rel was up for high A to S tier, so that doesn't mesh well with what I've come to believe. Same thing with me Necro, although I was feelin' it around the time I bought Kokonoe.

No prob! Knowledge is meant to be shared! 'sides any measure of skills I have is thanks to the valuable info posted by Necro and the Relius players of yesterday. I'd feel ungrateful if I didn't help as much as I've been helped. Were something of a community of scientists here so if you have any info you'd like to share or if you know the answer to a question posed here feel free to join in!

Meowkaka can still break 6K with a little bit of effort. She's just not insane anymore. Her speed and mix-up are intact, but 236236D nerf and the j.D, j.236B and Distortion damage nerfs hurt a damage and oki a little. I did something like 6C>CT>236CC>jump>j.2D~B>5[C]>6C>4D~B>6C>236AAA>5D~A>6C>OD cancel>TK236236D for 6K+ and that was just me screwin' around. I'm sure there are combos out there that do tons more from far easier confirms. By the way if you just 236C~B after the 5D~A you get oki and 5k ish damage for less than 25 heat... In any case, she does alot better than Valk in breaking 4K. she can almost do that much off a throw, if not more.

Thought I might just babble a little. In pressure after a falling normal you can do, 663C>jump>j.B and the momentum from 3C makes j.B cross up. 63214B>3C oki is made better by 63214B>663C>jump because the momentum of the 66 will push the opponent a bit further. Wonder if we can get even more distance with an IAD. After the opponent is hit with Duo bios I will catch them with 2C>6C>22A>4D>sj>j.B>j.236C~j.214B>airdash. This works pretty well for me, dealing a good chunk, while maintaining oki, I think we can do better though. If I can get them to the corner I do 2C>6C>22A>4D>3C, although thinking on it now, 2C>6C>236C~214A>3C may be better. 5C(2)>2C>6C>236C~214A>3C may get even more damage if it works. I think I will find out what's optimal from different Duo Bios hits.

A visual trick is when the 5B arm starts to go slack, you input 6D and when Ignis' hand appears to be shrinking, you input the second 6 in 665B. There is a specific flow, don't try to go any faster than it. In actual game-play you only need one rep of 5B>6D>663C>jump cancel+6D>falling j.C. to get in. It's a easy cost efficient way to safely start pressure from max 5B range. Practice makes perfect so try 5B>[6D>665B]x7>3C>632146D until you've got the rhythm. (The 3C>632146D can only be done if you're not stressed, so if you're capable of all of that, you can do the reps on the turn of a dime.) Once you get real good with this loop you can do stuff like 5B>2B>6D>662B>5B>6D>665B>2B>6D>665B>2B>3C>632146D for awe inspiring stagger combos Another fun, and somewhat practical loop is 5B>[5C(2)>jump+6D>falling j.C>665B]x3or4>5C(2)>3C>632146D Does 4K anywhere. Good for if you have 60%+Ignis, get a standing or crouching 5C confirm, and feel the need to style all over your foe.

Where is Lich anyhow? Gad is one of the 2 moves I never use in neutral, the other being 6C. He has some splainin' to do.

True Unblockables are amazing though, but I use them as sparingly as I would a grab. The best way to implement them If you do, is to use them as Oki. You can cancel any normal into 236D on lock, so if you feel the opponent is just gonnakeep blocking you can go for it (But be aware you can be punished for setting up) the real way to d it is off 2363214C oki anywhere and 3C oki in the corner. Unblockables can be defeated by DPs and smart teching, so after you put out a 236D, it becomes more about punishing their way of avoiding your unblockable. Even if all you've done is get them blocking, for Relius that's huge,and well worth the 1500IG expenditure. 214D is more of a zoning tool than an unblockable. As a unblockable tool it is vastly inferior to 236D (As in almost completely useless.) Used at a distance, it tries to threaten the opponent into doing something stupid. It can be used situationally for Oki on Haku and to get a charging Kagura to stand. Other things to consider when using unblockables is Relius' glitch gimmicks, if you have 50% heat to burn and you just don't care.

1. Ooh, so it's not useless now. 2. Dang, Rel and Tao can't afford another hit to their damage really. (Well Rell prolly can. 3.4K from anywhere is pretty stronk.) 3. Wasn't Scuba punishment always 1299 damage? 4. What of Growly's I frames? 5 Sounds awesome, whatever it is. 6. Ya did great! =D

There are some situations where it can nope jump outs and drag them back to where they jumped from. But beyond that, TD's right.

Well the way I see it, being stupid, in danger, and at frame disadvantage is better than being stupid, in danger, at frame disadvantage, with incoming lazor-beems. And there's always the chance you hit her :T Made infinitely more probable by the fact that no-one expects a move like that.

Well if she's gonna drop a j.C on you then 2C her! (Or are you in the air in this situation?) Honestly this is the one MU I don't mind abusing lauger's range in, if not just to shut down those pesky steins. On hit or block, the madness stops. even better with meter cuz it can be followed with Ignis summon or grab attempt.

gotta dodge and weave man, it's the only way to do it. After you approach they ether make a stand, run away, or DP. You can punish their attempt to attack you, them running leaves a gap to summon Ignasty and use Tus which makes approaching Mu the second time super easy, and DP is bait-able.

I remember a tweet saying that she could get full HP from any knockdown with it in the loke. Not sure if that tweet was super reliable, or if that got nerfed, but take that for what you will. It's probably to start a game of "Oh you don't want me healing~<3 But don't forget I have a DP the size of atlanta that's hungry for your tears~<3"

The sass exuding from this quote is palpable. Five stars.

Two questions. Notice anything from the Ara footage besides crushbug? Have any characters beyond Nu-udles 13, Lamb-chops 11, Ara, and Idle Ragoo been shown? I'm intensely curious about the rest of the cast.

1.1 happened so Kags can't do that no mo'

Without knowledge of her full capabilities and the capabilities of other characters, it's neigh impossible to make a call like that.

See guys? This s*** is dirty.