Myoro

We need to experiment more with wake-up Dash-Ley. I swear I've messed up Led ley baits and throws by phazing straight through them and making their hit boxes do weird things. For instance Ragnas 2B meaty>5B to punish ley: I dash-ley'd through it and the 5B came out but went toward the corner and I who was behind him now got a 5500 5B punish for the win. I could have SWORN I managed to defeat a grab in the very same way. We need a way to discourage immediate grabs though as I think they'll still beat dash-ley, how do we punish grabs on our wake-up normally?

Right it snipes Haku shields, but that's about all 214D does (It does kinda have some uses against Kagura too. If he's crouching a ways away chargin' his DP and waiting for you to approach him you can use this move to make him stand and lose his charge while you rush in.) @Necro there's nothing wrong with pressing C, 2C is still my main way out of the defensive too, you just have to smartly press C. Big rewards are tasty for Relius because he's a momentum character. The quicker we turn the defensive around into a good situation the better our forecast for victory is. Don't get down on yourself for pressing C, just press C in situations where you know you have a good chance of winning, and block, barrier, CA, vinum, and press A and D in situations where those win too.

Well I'd better take responsibility for no apparent reason, shouldn't I? From CSE to CP. We lost some character combo rating, as a result you'll never see Relius break 5000 meterless, and he's neverever gonna do 9000+ without negative warning and or danger state. This means we're supposed to prioritize our Ignis spending on pressure, neutral, oki, and mix-up most likely. New to CP is GAD LEIS, (41236B) the miracle jack-knife that makes Relius' solo combos possible, gives damage to normal combos, and is plus on block to boot! New to CP1.1 is the ability to combo Gad Leis into 3C and get knockdown and an improved hitbox making stuff like [5B>6B>j.B>j.C>2C>6C>41236B>5B>5C>superjump>j.B>j.C>j.236C~j.214B] possible! Also new to CP is Geara Lugia (22A/B/C) A useful harassment move, it lets Relius establish a full screen presence even without Ignis. 22A can be used in combos after 2C or 6C for a makeshift knockdown. 22C can be used similarly after 236C~214A (though I generally just 236C~214B TBH.) 22B/C can be used to harass zoners optic barrel style. New to CP is Crush Trigger (5A+B), As you might expect having Ignis attack while Relius sets up a crush trigger is effective in both combos and blockstrings. 1000 damage that ignores character combo rate is nothing to sneeze at, put this in for that extra 600ish damage oomph in your combo. Tus (214C) now tracks and is quicker, much quicker. Unfortunately it is not as + on block or damaging as it once was, but I'd say it's still an improvement. Tus is so quick in fact that you can throw it out and she'll be on the opponent in no time, if they block then you can get in and start pressuring for free. If they get hit by tus you can do a Bnb that does 300ish extra damage. (214D) now useless, use 236D for unblockables. Increased game gravity makes 5B>3C>6D+jump>j.C>665B>3C>repeat an airtight blockstring that only stops when Ignis dies... if done right. getting them in this loop and adding variations on it such as 2B/6A/other shenanigans. When you're starting to learn Relius Id practice these combos, not to be used in battle but to help you with the difficult parts in his later execution: 5B>[6D>665B]x7>3C>632146D ^this will teach you how to use 6D and microdash in conjunction to start/continue pressure. even from max range 5B can go into pressure by doing 5B>6D>663C>jump+6D>falling j.C>66B>stuff. 5B>[5C(2hits)>jump+6D>falling j.C>665B]x3>5C(2hits)>3C>632146D ^This will teach good timing for 6D+jump and falling j.C>microdash. also 3C>632146D is an important combo finisher too. For Bnbs try these! Midscreen: (any thing less then 4 hits)>3C>jump+6D>j.B>2C>6C>41236B>665B>5C(2hits)>superjump>j.B>j.C>j.236C~j.214B>airdash ^This has great damage corner carry and Oki and is one of the most flexible combos ever. If you confirm an air hit into 2C you can pick up the combo from the 2C in this one and get similarly great damage and corner carry. If you have 4 or more hits before the 3C or have a jab starter or dont have enough IG for j.214B try this modification!: (5A or 4+hits or whatever)>3C>6D+jump>j.B>2C>6C>41236B>3C Corner: (anything less than 4 hits)>236C~214A>665C(1hit)>jump forward>j.C>j.236C~j.214B>falling j.B>2C>6C>41236B>5B>5C(2)>4D>3C>(optional distortion) ^This is our corner Bnb and our highest damage getter usually. costs 3000 IG. if you have a jab starter or 4 or more hits before the 236C you have to get rid of the 41236B>5B>5C(2) and go straight from the 6C to the 4D. if you have 3 hits before the 236C you only need to get rid of the 5C(2). I have my own versions that I use to save IG which are: 5B>3C>236C~214A>665C(2)>j.C>j.236C>5B>2C>6C>41236C>5B>5C(2)>4D>3C which costs 2000IG for 150 less damage than the standard Bnb off a 5B confirm and 5B>3C>236C~214A>665C(2)>j.C>j.236C>5B>2C>6C>41236B>3C which costs 1000IG and only does 500 less than the standard corner Bnb off a 5B confirm Hope this helps! ^_^ If you need more data look at Lich's in progress FAQ and the Combo thread. Lich is an awesome dood with awesome ideas so you'll get some awesome stuff there, and Necro and I have been putting our blood sweat and tears into the combo thread (I don't think there's a single post not worth reading there) Also be sure to check out Lich's matches as well as RYO's to see the various things that make Relius powerful in action! (RYO is kinda like the god of Relius players. I aspire to be a match for him one day.)

le' derp, fix'd it. Thanks Necro, you've succeeded in making me marginally less confusing, and that's no easy task. I think I ought to make a better mid-to-corner 665B>2C pick-up combo. 3400ish damage for 2300IG is what we get anyway off of a 5B starter, but literally all that changes is we get 5 more damage and the oki which becomes 3C oki as opposed to j.214B oki. I want damage and 3C oki in my mid-to corner combos, and I want it nao! Well the realistic thing to do would be to add j.236C in somewhere since that's our only heavy damager that is left out in that pick-up, But we can't do 41236B>6B>j.236C cuz they tech... This is a pickle.

I know Bang's 236236D does, my friend and I were messin' around and he pulled me right out of the snake umbra. Legit. Testing it now for authenticity it only wins like 1/2 times.

Your combos clock in at [2803DMG/+20HT/-4300IG] for the first one. [3182DMG/+22HT/-5300IG] for the second. Couple notes, though it kinda seems counter-intuitive, most Relius players won't double jump in midscreen combo enders because the 30~70ish added damage isn't worth the airdash you can do after j.214B to get oki and pressure follow-up. I highly suggest adding the 2C>6C>41236B chain into your combo making, those moves absolutely pile on damage. I'd recommend this combo instead for midscreen. 5B>6D>663C>jump+6D>falling j.B/j.C>2C>6C>41236B>665B>5C(2)>superjump>j.B>j.C>j.236C~j.214B>airdash. [3284DMG/+23HT/-3600IG] ^Works from max range 5B easily but costs 3600IG. if you are in range to do 5B>3C you can just skip the first 6D completely to save 1300 IG for later. this modification changes it to our basic BnB which does [3428DMG/+24HT/-2300IG] A good combo for approaching the corner is: 5B>3C>jump+6D>falling j.B>2C>236C>214A>665B>2C>6C>41236B>665B>5C(2)>4D>3C [3726DMG/+26HT/-3300-IG] ^ If you want to save 1000IG then you can delete the 5B>5C(2)>4D at the end and just use 41236B>3C for [3433/+24HT/-2300IG] In the corner I highly suggest 5B>3C>236C>214A>665C(2)>j.C>j.236C>5B>2C>6C>41236B>3C [4011DMG/+28HT/-1000IG] ^super IG efficient still breaks 4K and gets Oki/distortion follow-up. "Myoro's pride and joy." @Necro, you know my favorite loop is: 5B>[5C(2)>jump+6D>falling j.C>665B]x3>5C(2)>3C>632146D [4354DMG/-27HT/-4900IG] Does more than 4000 midscreen but costs half an Ignis bar, works on crouch or stand, flashy, easy, and fun as heck. My finisher of choice if they've got a third or less of their health left.

Have we talked about Hakumen's j.B? I have a peeve that I expected to be solved by now. CH frames. I've hit moves during their actives and start-ups and still no CH. it's drivin' me insane, especially when I'm using 2C which needs a way differently timed confirm on CH (you can get punished hard if you confirm that move even a little wrong...) I expected it to be cured in the patch or for us to get CH vulnerable frames listed in the Wiki, but no such luck I'm afraid. Anyone else feel that pain?

Meter management, defense, Solo combo confirms. I don't want to say the rest is incredibly easy, but by comparison they'll seem that way.

GGs to PSN, logging me off netplay and not letting me back on is a formidable strategy. I don't know if I have a counter to it. EDIT: Welcome to the fold! ^_^

GGs Swordsman09!

Necro no don't leave meeeeee ;_; If you drop this game it'll only be me babbling insanely to my self on the Relius forums.

Links? Taiga vids?

So not to sidetrack from this discussion, but a useful bit of info for our CH3C. We can do CH3C>5D>665C>2C>6C>41236B>5B>5C>Superjump>j.B>j.C>j.236C~j.214B for [3400DMG/24HT/IG=9000] Does more damage than our standard 3C punish and gives us another full bar to play with. This may be common knowledge already or something, but I thought it cool. In the corner we can do CH3C>5D>(Optional microdash for spacing)>5C>(jump for spacing)>j.C>j.236C>5B>2C>236C>5B>2C>6C>41236B>3C [3596DMG/+25HT/+full IG] It feels super easy to do and I already tested it on all the trouble makers from my earlier test with success.

For amane I'm just upset that his C normals shut down Ignis for free, often netting us as well. I feel like those should be projectiles, (or if they are, they should not harm Ignis) My best friend plays Haku so I know a great deal of what they can do. You could say I've gained a healthy immunity to Haku's BS. Fighting Haku is less about your character and more about you as a player.

Kagura, Tager, Tsubaki, Nu, Noel, Ragna, Plat, Bullet, Haku, Azrael a maybe one or two others that I can't think of right now. I'm kinda on the fence about calling Arakune, Rachel, Mu or Valk a good MU, for us at this point. The rest I'd say are 5:5 with the exception of Koko and Amane who just seem to shut me down. This is personal MU exp so don't read too much into it.

Right, but it's a 50/50 situation on my Oki not theirs. To think that I should block or Twirl 50% of the time on the opponent's wake-up seems ludicrous to me. MAYBE I'd reconsider if Fatals all had "long" combo time or something. That's something I always thought they should have put in. "normal combos" go for 8 seconds max, so "Fatal hit combos" should go for 12 seconds, then we could see some crazy awesome EX style punishes. As of right now I laugh at the fact that Relius' 3C is a better punish in every way shape and form than any of his Fatals. (If they ever do add this idea they better remove the Fatal from Noels 4D tho, or there will be no end to the salt.)

Ah thanks Necro!

GGs Herodyne. You're amazing! Playing against you is always interesting because your defense goes beyond the usual "Invincible move and Burst" fare I'm used to seeing.

Can anyone teach me how to bait bursts and DPs with some accuracy? Set-ups, mentality, any other delicious tid bits of knowledge? Many thanks.

Can't you just: BlahBlahBlah>3C>jump>last hit of 214C is blocked Ignis starts recovering from 214C>falling j.B>dj.C fuzzy>Ignis has recovered and you use j.2D This way, in theory, if 3C miraculously does hit the last hit of 214C will act like 6D and confirm out combo for us. Try that. I'll be back in the lab come Monday. I like to think Errol is secretly tsundere for Relius players, or at least secretly tsundere for Necro and I.

This is so fantastic I'm actively making it my screen saver Avvy and god knows what else. I need to speak to various developers to get this put in SSB4 and BB4 because this is all I'd be playing! Thank you so much!! ^_^ Also, gonna hard mod it in so every time I land Id Lauger he goes WAH HAAA! It's perfect!

That was suuuuper epic, out games lagged because of the extreme hitstop. I find Casuals are as fun as you make em'. Outside of tourneys and super serious matches you should be "learning" and "getting better." So what I do to have fun is put additional goals to my match, like way back when I wanted at least one 236C>Rapid combo per round so I could learn when and where they should be used and also improve my execution. Now I get 5B>236C>rapid>665B>2C pretty consistently and it's helped me in serious fights. Of course I still co-prioritize winning, but if I lose, I still get to go "Hey one outta two ain't bad" then keep playing salt-free. If I don't reach ether goal it's because I literally was shut down because the opponent drastically outplayed me using an unfamiliar character/set-ups and now I have some valuable footage of to look over, then subsequently thwart. Really casuals is a win-win-win for me. For the next few matches my goal is landing those special 236C>3C/5B corner combos I invented. I want to be able to use those on the fly. When I'm done with those I have the fuzzy and 41236B>4D>5D>5B combos to look forward to! Moral of the story is, at our level we should prioritize learning and improving over winning matches. It'll save you many trips to the grocery store's worth in salt, and ultimately help you for when you only need prioritize victory, like in tourneys.

Relius and Carl mirrors and Rel vs Carl MUs are fun to watch, what with 4 entities doing battle at all times. It's kinda like watching 4 player super smash bros. Whenever someone uses Duo Bios or Rhapsody of Memories, the other person is inexorably compelled to use their own version.

I think it must have to do with all actions past 41236B. If you microdash before 5B>5C superjump that will obviously place you closer for a dashover. If you Cancel j.236C into j.214B ASAP then the opponent will be placed very close and if you airdash ASAP then you should get a broader arc landing you further from where you j.214B'd I've yet to see or try this j.2D for roll catching, you'd probably have to ask him or show me a video. If I had to figure it out for my self I'd say watch for 41236B>microdash, the amount of time before he cancels j.236C into j.214B, and the distance he falls before executing the airdash.

I have a flair for the dramatic Necro, you know this. But in any case we should devote a page, topic, or something somewhere to hyper-useful things that are character specific. We could write explanations and who it does and does not work on. So far we have: The 22CD combo The sure to be chara specific 41236B>4D desummoning trick The Fuzzy