Myoro

So our best mix-up tool is useless against 9 cast members? that's over one 3rd of the cast! Thanks Obama... But there's a bright silver lining, it works on Ragna, Jin, Hazumi, and Azrael, and that's a good 80% of who people play anyway! But goddang it Rachel and Koko were the only two I really wanted to use it on. They've been instant overheading me for years and I want revenge! I think I'mma have to invent a mnemonic to remember all those characters I can or can't use it on. Thanks for the info guys!

It also looks to be the cheaper option Ignis cost wise, I'm just more worried about character specific-ness the nerf to air normal's P1 hurting its damage. Is Tager the only person the fuzzy wuzzy works on midscreen? Who doesn't it work on in the corner? What are the stats on this thing? What kinda combos does it lead into? What are gimmicks that can be done from it? What do we do when the fuzzy is blocked correctly? There's a lot I wanna know before just chucking it into my gameplay, and I'm ether gonna find it out four days from now in the lab then in matches, or when some kind soul spells it out for me here. EDIT: Happy 4th BTW! ^_^

And maybe it's because Relius has some of the simpler answers to some of Carl's stuff, maybe it's because I play the match-up in an unorthodox way, but to me, he's no S tier. Relius, Mu, and Tao being as bad as Bullet, Tager, and Makoto is the funniest joke I think I've ever heard Arcadia tier list. I guess I'm a low tier hero now guyz! All the characters I play are B and below! Aren't you all exited for me?

I'd try 6A>Rapid>66B>5C if I were you. 6A>RC>66B>j.B>j.C>2C>6C>41236B>5B>5C>sj>j.B>j.C j.236C~j.214B should do nicely If you mis-confirm into 6A>RC>66B>5C you can catch yourself by doing 6A>RC>66B>5C(1)>2C>6C>41236B>5B>5C>sj>j.B>j.C j.236C~j.214B on anyone who isn't Amane or Carl. on block 6A>RC>66B>5C>(3C>jump)/(2C>6C>41236B)/(whatever the hack you plan on doing off of blocked 5C) should work just fine. I think people are more tolerant about Relius' trolling because he isn't as blatant about it. From an onlooker's perspective it looks like we're playing a really difficult timing based character with few-to-no tools without his doll that goes away whenever he's so much as sneezed on. They just don't really know how good we have it I think. If you need to get the point across I suggest this blockstring. 3C oki>236236D>[Taunt]xN>66C>236236D>[Taunt]xN>OD>5B>214C>Taunt>5B>3C>[any real blockstring you feel like doing.]

TBH 6A>6D is better than 6A>rapid. Here's how I view Ignis pressure. Ignis=10,000IG storing bank. 6D costs 1,300IG. 10,000/1300=8 rounded up. Basically if I summon Ignis and go straight into pressure only using 6D as an Ignis move, I have a total of 8 mini Relius blockstrings I can connect safely (+2 if I have 100 gauge for rapids.) This is of course an unrealistic amount of connects for 4 reasons. 1 no one is going to use rapids to enhance Relius pressure, that would be redundant. 2: we have to account for IG used in prior combos, neutral, or Oki. 3: We have to factor in the fact that Ignis will decay during the Mini Relius blockstrings. 4: as amount of pressure resets via 6D go up, reward for breaking the opponent's guard goes down, the reward for breaking through someone's guard is negligible if you have less than 2300IG and no meter, and nearly non-existant if you have less than 1300 IG with no meter. Realistically you have 4-5 pressure resets before you consider exiting pressure or 6-7 if you have meter to fall back on for a de-summon/solo combo. So the way to beat the system is to con your way out of having to spend IG whenever you can. You can do this by making people believe you are going to make something safe when you aren't really. Because of my use of 5B>6D>665B I often get away with 5B>665B for no good reason other than people are afraid to move. The threat of Ignis is a great weapon too, but to use this weapon you must cement something vital in the opponent's mind: "BAD THINGS HAPPEN WHEN THEY MOVE." if they mash, make sure they get hit, if they DP make sure they get blocked or they whiff, if they try to jump out make sure they meet 6D>665B air unblockable into 3400 damage or 6D>66>j.B+C if they barrier. (This isn't even limited to Ignis pressure really, the reason j.C>66A works is because j.C>665B/663C will be there for them if they dare get impatient and mash.) Everyone has their threshold for how many times you can reset your pressure in an illegitimate fashion or do unsafe things during pressure before they get impatient, and when you know that threshold you can punish it as well by suddenly going legit and blowing up their impatient actions. If the person you're playing is the high-strung sort who looks for unsafe things to disrespect just remember you can straight up WHIFF moves and still punish with 6D for a full combo. The total pressure resets you can have jumps to about an average of 10 (12 With 50% for de-summon/solo combo) if you keep it fresh. In short, Relius way of getting through the opponent's guard is less a game of high vs low, left vs right, grab vs jab, than other's but more one of Respect vs Disrespect, Patience vs Impatience. If they disrespect you, punish them for it, if they respect you, make them wish they didn't. All the cards are in your hand, and you win so long as you make the right call. (of course High/low/left/right/jab/grab are part of our mix-up too, but as they're not AS effective as other character's they can be incorporated to distract the opponents from our darker schemes...)

Honestly I get more milage outta j.C>6A than the fuzzy. People instinctively bow down to Relius once he touches the ground. Once they figure that out I turn it into j.C>5B>6A and then j.C>5B>delay to make their muscles react to an imaginary 6A>3C. Don't forget we can frametrap people in mix-up too. Not only can we use Ignis to do so, but we can use the often forgotten about gatlings Relius has. Sometimes I do 5B>a false "accidental" 2C>late gating into 3C for a frame trap>jump to combo or continue pressure. j.C>66B>delay 5C>3C works to a similar effect, though less effectively so (It at least catches jump outs and safely cancels into 3C.) j.C>663C>jump over with dash momentum>j.2D/j.B follow up is also effective. In the corner (Be it they or me) I sometimes use 5B>214B>forward jump if they're far, neutral if close>falling j.B cross-up. The beauty of it is that only with 214B's push does it become a cross-up, so not only is it hard to react to, it requires the opponent to switch their blocking in 0.15~0.50 seconds which in itself is hard. 2D can be used to similar effect, but it costs more, you gotta have ignis out and in reality it's only slightly safer and way more predictable/reactable. If I have the respect for them to wait for fuzzy timing, I'll instead do BS like 5B>5A+B, 5B>236D, or other zany things like it (CT and 236D work from any ground normal, so get creative here.)

I dunno, being able to land a 1000ish damage punish while you're being comboed sounds legitimately broken. It requires set-up and literally every resource available to Relius so it's sorta balanced (In that it'll probably be rare if not non existent in actual game-play.) But I feel like it's crazy that the option even exists. See, I didn't know that burst combos could kill. If I had known how to do this there are matches that I actually could have won that I didn't. I've been in the situation before where I've had Duo Bios out, 50 more heat, a burst, enough health to take the first part of a combo, and an opponent left with less than 1162 health many times. I always thought it was like counter assaults where combos from them can't kill. So for me, the one Relius dumb enough to use Duo Bios in neutral at the close of a round, this is a big thing.

I've done it. My greatest masterpiece. (Duo Bios out) Burst>last hit of Duo Bios>3C>632146D [1162DMG/-99HT/-2500IG/+100%salt if this takes the match] To my knowledge it works anywhere so long as you're getting hit and Duo Bios is out. If the match is close and you can do this, then do it and be a legend.

DOUBLE POST BUT WORTH IT. I was fighting this Noel, She's down to like no health. I Duo Bios. She Airdashes over then aircombos me. I counterhit Burst her. The burst coblos into the last hit of Duo Bios. I land as she rockets back to me. I use 2C to clench the match. Moral of story: Duo Bios>Burst>last hit of Duo Bios>2C [129DMG/-49HT/-1500IG]

Fun fact, Like id Lauger, Gaera Lugia combos into 5B (and possibly 3C) if the last few actives and the top of its hit box are the things touched. Strict as heck but it's got fair damage and P2 so... I've only got it to work in combos off of 4D and OD 214B/214C (OR air counter hit normal 214B and 214C) and it runs our combo timer so I don't know if it's too practical, but it is what it is.

Ah thanks Errol, that tip is immediately useful!

I, Myoro, summon anyone with good MU knowledge to this thread. So what do. Why do all of her drive moves seem conspicuously safe? I want to punish things like noels using 4D>assault through to just bypass my Ignis zoning, but blocked or whiffed Assault through seems safe. Even if I react and 5B it seems to trade which I don't want. Can someone give me answers to the various things a Noel will do in combat? Give me some ways to get sure fire punishes on her? I feel like if I master blocking her high low mix-up she can't touch me on the defensive, but rando invuln on my offensive or my counteroffensive into 20 minute long combo anywhere (give or take an hour if, god forbid, she resets you) is giving me some headaches.

I'm working to get Dash ley (2366A) turned into a peeve. I've found it almost like a bootleg kokoport when you're cornered. I feel like it could harmonize well with IB considering the reduced pushback and blockstun. Dash ley also has the benefit of making the opponent sometimes punish ley in the wrong direction. (I've had Ragna do 2B meaty > I dash ley through him > he uses 5B at the corner > I 5B him from behind.) Once in a blue moon it even dupes grabs in this way. It's a wonderful miracle and we need to learn when/how to exploit it.

Just BLOOD SCYTHE!? But no seriously, airgrab j.A or 2C. Blood Scythe should never even show its active frames in a real battle if you react.

Maybe he can buff his persona card stock? JK I dunno. The localized info is more recent yes? so I'm more willing to trust it. It could be Adachi is still being made even now.

Used to happen to me in this exact scenario. INFERNO DIVIDAAA!!!> 236A> CH3C> BARRIER OVERLOAD!!!> 236A> Air hit 5B> 3C whiffs> *techs* U STOOPID!? Now-a-days I keep an eye on the burst sprite. if their legs don't touch the ground then 5B>2C is the answer.

You should join us sometime! The more the merrier! (You should also teach me how to instant block as godlike as you can.)

Hyderu, you dropping this game would be the greatest loss to this series by far, don't do it. You took quite a few more than 2 games too, against my Relius that I've spent years training with. If anything that's a sign that yer good at vidjya gaems and are great at life in general. GGs Hyderu! It's always a pleasure.

If your Rachel's bad, then I've never fought a good one, and I'm in a dire pinch when I do. GGs Kubel99!

I'm wolfin' down dinner as fast as I can without choking, These games are pretty hype. I don't got the perma-pass on because I got the JPN version and I'm constantly forgetting which option perma-pass is (and I don't wanna accidentally disband the room lol) The Kagura vs Relius MU is more commonly referred to as "Hell"

Well if Ignis was easy to stop ether there'd be no point to her or I'd be one failure of a Relius. I was told once that Rel vs Rachel was "Baiting" -The Matchup Basically we have tools that defeat each other's tools cleanly, but you have to be able to predict the opponent. I'll invite right now!! (I need to eat so I'll pass after my next match.

If you say so. You have gotten better, since the last time we faced. Watch out though, your liberal use of cat chair will get you even more killed against people who aren't me though, so look out.

Nooooo~~~~ don't cry (;_;)7 You're trainin' with your sub so I should prolly be usin' Tao anyhow...

You want I should invite him maybe why not?

Give Ignis a mini version of Carls old astral as 421D. Make it cost like 30~50 IG but make it usable only when Ignis is out. Make it have Ignis invuln, do a gorrilion damage, and have a ton of Ignis recovery but do real good combo damage, wallstick in the corner, and give a easy CH confirm midscreen on air or ground hit even midscreen. Make it twice the size and speed in OD with half the recovery. It'd prolly have SMP -_-"