Myoro

Isn't that 6B>j.B>j.C>66B>superjumpj.B>double jump j.C>j.236C~214B? Maybe we could save a little time with 6B>665A>6B or something like that??? I need to test this.

I thought of that, but 41236B is happening the entire time she's on her way back to you. 2D might work after 41236B finishes, but that'd bring us to 4800 ignis cost for about 3/5ths-3/4ths screen carry.

3C>9 jump>wait a couple milliseconds>6D(usually input as 9D)>(Wait until end of 6D blockstun)>falling j.C/B Those milliseconds are very important and can be altered very easily by lag, and then it's ruined.

Yes, 41236B hits during the very last frame of hitstun that Tus has, by the time Gad Leis is done, Ignis is behind Relius again. I discovered that a simple 214C>jump forward>airdash over>41236B works just as well if not better than 214C>superjump>airdash>41236B

You gotta do it right when your jump is buffering which is about four or less frames. If you don't combos will drop and pressure will be obliterated. It's not like other characters where you cancel into stuff and use the input buffer as a lag crutch, 6D is independent of Relius' other normals meaning it can be early or late. If you mistime it even a little the move will come out too soon or become j.8D, and you get blown up ether way, which is horrible to a momentum based character like Relius. If Relius gets hit during Ignis pressure he gets a gauge penalty, damaged heavily, and is forced into playing his terrible defensive game (Likely while in lag too.) Lag is no friend of Relius.

After 41236B? how would that work?

If I do cross up with a quick superjump airdash Gad leis will add a ton of screen carry by pulling them the other way. (I meant to put superjump airdash instead of dash superjump lol) Edit: I discovered that you can airdash at the opponent while the Tus is happening, the last hit of Tus will still hit, and you'll have time to follow up with 41236B when you land. That in itself adds to the screen carry if we don't cross up, but I think we could go even further if we do cross up once.

I have been able to dash ley past some character's grab hitboxes before they were able to grab me, so I'm willing to call Ley even if not better than Kokoteleport (because we can also use it stationarily) Anyway, I'm working on a screen carry combo using 5>3C>jump+6D>falling j.B>662C>6C>214C>dash superjump>41236B>... But then I don't know how to end it with a cross back under. If there was a way this combo would look stylish as all get out. If that fails I can just stick to 5B>3C>5>3C>jump+6D>falling j.B>662C>6C>41236B>3C>6D>Iadj.B>j.C>j.8D>land>Superjump>j.B>j.236C~214B>airdash.

Lag is no friend to Relius players. Do you know what we have in the ways of defense? a frame 7 head invuln stub of an anti air and a command dodge that is grabbable on reaction. On the offensive lag can screw up our timing on our frametraps and pressure making them ever so DP-able, every single time. Also, as if our overhead wasn't obvious enough, lol. What's your example of it helping us? I mean sometimes it does have the benifit of making our frame traps more appetizing, because the lag will show you 50 frames where you can "escape" and really there was only supposed to be 3 or 4.

Or maybe a slightly faster 41236B for Fatal combos and crouch confirms. I'd love to be able to do: FC6C>5A+B>5B>2C>41236B>5B>5C>SJ>j.B>j.C>j.236C~j.214B But what I really want is a shorter version of Ley for 236A, while keeping the old version as 236[A] ([] meaning hold the A), so we can do stuff like: 5B>5C>6C>short ley cancel>5B>5C>SJ>j.B>j.C>j.236C~j.214B>airdash on crouch I'd also like a way to position Ignis for cheap while not wasting too much meter. What if we got rid of 214D, made our current 236D our 214D, and made 236D a move that doesn't need Relius free (Like 6D/2D/4D) and made it so Ignis just rushes forward at the cost of 3-4 IG a frame. Ideally she could even go through the opponent to do stuff on the other side of them. If once you let go of the D button she stayed where she is until her next move, we could do some ROI stuff (Relius Opponent Ignis) just like our son. By the way to make this post not completely a wishlist post, I found out that CH5B and CH5C both combo into 5A+B on airhit for a high damage confirm (approximately 4400 midscreen.)

Like are we talkiing about really high skill level people? because my list would upvote Arakune, and Izayoi Taokaka Izayoi (for the same reason as Tao once she gets GA, and she can get 4000+ damage midscreen when that happens) Jin (If I could tech grabs he'd be way lower though) Kokonoe (Her J.A and Dash speed, and the ability to confirm any air hit into 1/2 screen carry) Carl Arakune Ragna Mu (We can stop stiens, we have the technology... Those hit boxes though, that DP though...) Bang Litchi (she has good pressure and mix-up, but I'm actually spending my matches learning how to block it and life's getting better.) Amane (I probably don't know how to deal with him yet, but tell me why his C moves count as physical hits to Ignis.) Valkenhayn Makoto Platinum (You've been fighting Givinuponlife haven't you Necro. He's like Plat god right now so that may be what's tipping your scales.) Noel Nu Hazama*/Rachel Tsubaki Azrael Terumi Hakumen Bullet Tager Kagura

Now I could be completely off base here, but the Wiki says Kagura's 2C has 33 recovery frames and that our 6D has 17 start-up frames. Now granted I'm no math genious, but isn't 17 less than 33, so shouldn't we be able to get a safe punish? EDIT: Tested it, we totally can. you owe me a soda Necro.

Can't you just wait until 2C's recovery?

Well he does make meter like a baller, so the natural way to balance that is to make his meter options crappier than others... I wish they thought of some other way though.

5B>3C>236C~214A>665C(1)>j.C>j.236C>5B>2C>6C>41236B>5B>5C>4D>3C (4274 DMG/30HT/2000IG) 5B>3C>236C~214A>665C(2)>j.C>j.236C>5B>2C>6C>41236B>3C (4011DMG/28HT/1000IG) I posted these in game-play discussion, but I feel like they deserve a place here too. They are more Ignis saving than our standard corner Bnb while not sacrificing much damage, this'll let you finish combos at low IG and let you still get 3C oki/de-summon. In situations where Ignis Oki/pressure is stronger I'd even advocate using this in place of our standard Bnb unless the standard version kills. You should note that you want the j.C to hit from a good distance or else the 6C will go off-screen and whiff. The first one can also go into 4D oki options like crossunder>Tus>stuff. I wish we could find a way to factor Ignis decay into our combo notations...

Sorry 'bout this, I only had a hour and a half to do stuff. I'll play ya next time tho!

Anyone up for some games?

So is the general consensus that Shadow characters are still worse than their non-shadow counterparts even with the buffs they got?

Oh derp. Crossing out of the corner would work though. and if you didn't Dash ley you'd still be in the corner, so we've got left/right mix-up here

Getting dash momentum is as easy as using 2366A. Back when I played Hazama EONS AGO, I learned how to dash distortion (or dashtortion =3) 2362366B basically made it so you could Houtenjin someone half a screen away. This is transferable to Ley by doing 2366A and can be used to cross up point blank people (sometimes even screwing up their attempts at meaties) I have yet to get it down to an artform, but it almost is like having Koko's 22C to use on wake-up

Can we use Dash ley here to make this DP safe and go for double cross-up lows? It'd be like 4D>crossunder>Tus>(They tech)>dash ley ley>5B/2B/6A.

Is that so? No one ever uses IKs anyway so I wouldn't know just by watching footage.

We're a rare breed really. (Considering the complete Azrael saturation)

Did you all know that close range 3C combos into j.A on certain characters? I sure as heck didn't. you can get 3200 ish damage off in the corner with 5B>3C>j.A(1)>j.C>j.236C>5B>2C>6C>41236B>5C>236C... point blank 3C>j.A(1)>j.B>j.C>j.2C>6C>41236B>5B>5C>superjump>j.B>j.C>j.236C~j.214B>airdash works midscreen for 3200ish damage. Both combo versions work on: Mu, Kagura, Bullet, Tager, Azrael, Izayoi, Arakune, Jin, Rachel, Kokonoe, Platinum, Valkenhayn (even in wolf form), Bang, Taokaka. 3C>j.A connects but I can't seem to do j.A>j.B>j.C>2C on (corner combo works fine):Carl Doesn't work at all on: Relius, Makoto, Hazama/Terumi, Hakumen, Ragna, Litchi, Noel, Amane, Nu. I don't know for certain that it won't work on Carl, but I can't get it to (Can work if he's fataled before hand). For the characters it does work on some have a little more leeway than others and some require the 3C to be point blank, no exceptions, although corner seems to lessen the need to be point blank across the board. Hope y'all found this useful. Let me know if you do.

Okay guyz and galz. I KNOW you've had those times when you're doing our optimal corner combo and you hit the first 5C(1) from too far away, or you accidentally neutral jumped after 5C(1) and you knew the falling j.B after the j.236C~j.214B was doomed to whiff. Well fret no more. If you annex the j.214B follow-up you can instead pick up with 5B>2C>6C>41236B after j.236C with much more leeway than you might expect. From there you can continue normally. You only lose out on about 225 damage adverage, and you save an extra 1000 Ignis so you may want to switch to this as a new Ignis conservative route. Here's the script: 5B>3C>236C~214A>665C(1)>j.C>j.236C>5B>2C>6C>41236B>5B>5C>4D>3C (4274 DMG/30HT/2000IG) If you want to conserve even more Ignis from out adverage Bnb Here's a combo for the low low price of 1000 5B>3C>236C~214A>665C(2)>j.C>j.236C>5B>2C>6C>41236B>3C (4011DMG/28HT/1000IG) This sucker is kinda hard to pull off, and I don't know about character specific-ness of it because I only tested this on Izayoi so far. for the 1000 Ignis version I have no Idea how many hits can come before the 236C before the whole thing falls apart. I'll collect data on the lingering questions eventually, but don't hold your breath... in-fact aid me in the research and try to improve on these if you guys can.