Myoro

Not one during ley, but 214A and 214C can catch things like Izayoi's 214D koko's 22C and bangs 236236D with ease even though it puts Ignis right on top of them. During ley 6D 2D and 4D are the only usable moves and 6D and 2D have the same point blank problem, and 4D whiffs on standing shorties and crouchers.

I was thinking backdash through actives>6D their Recovery while we recover from backdash>665B for combo or pressure. This would of course only work on moves with 7 or fewer actives (If our invuln really hasn't improved at all since 1.0) and they'd have to have at least 9ish recovery frames for 6D to be safe. This wouldn't do much for air approaches, but then I don't see why 236D + 4D wouldn't stop those. This solution would work more for stuff like Ragna's 214A which would leave him to close. (You'd also be free to block ID and far enough not to get grabbed after)

Descending unexpectedly from on high bringing terror and death, like a Ninja who is also invisible, Myoro appears. Let us do battle.

If they're airborne or tall and not ducking 4D'll get em no matter how close. We could do as Carls do and cover our horrible backdash with 6D if you need spacing.

Tomorrow Hyderu, I gots to sleep myself, I got to work tomorrow (err... today rather.) I look forward to it tho!!

Welcome to dustloop Hyderu!! The truth called despair?

Heh I suspected as much. It happens to me time to time too.

Amazing games until you disappeared SWD, I always feel obligated to play dirty in the Carl match-up. That Mu-lazor fort blew my mind, I've heard of them being used but had never experienced one first hand (or at least one of that calibur!) Your Nu is top notch as always, judging from that last half match. I'm still not on your level ^_^"

I think people are talkin' about color squares... maybe.

Anyone for some games?

Eh, I feel bad too, 'specially when I do it to someone I know. No matter how much I claim to feel nothing for my rank, I feel a steady sinking whenever I lose my pink rank, which is often. Still they'll get over it every time just as I do, and they'll get better every time just as I do, and the next pink they get they'll fight to hold onto longer just as I do.

In situations like that I think a superjump j.[A] would be better. We could probably do something like microdash>2D>4D if we knew that exact thing was about to happen.

Yeah, but whatever kind of quality anti-air 2C is, Relius' anti-air game is still a mess, and I refuse to leave it at that. Right now I'm working to counter cross-ups with j.A and j.B+C, I think a more intimate knowledge of IB-ing will boost the effectiveness of 2C and 5A, and I think I can counter bait foes expecting 2C with 2D and enable 4D during defensive play. All of this will require some expert guitar hero level blocking...

Relius doesn't have a DP worth a dang for air approaches, and the only other anti airs he has are 6B (no invuln poor start-up, poor range low damage confirms outside of CH), 5A (okayish start up, whiffs on some crouching hitboxes, low priority, small range low damage confirms), 4D (Requires Ignis out, requires 1000 IG, No head invuln for Ignis meaning she sometimes gets beaten or traded, great range, but okayish start-up.) Really 2C is the best option of all of these, but that makes it the biggest obstacle to overcome in getting through Relius' defenses. With glaring weaknesses like small vertical range and poor recovery it might be good, but it's certainly not good enough to act as a standalone anti-air. I think when Necro and other Relius players say 2C isn't good it belies what they really mean which is that it isn't good enough to make his anti-air game passable by itself. In my own opinion, so take this with a grain of salt, mastery of instant blocking and summoning and using Ignis during defense might be the only thing that might elevate Relius' defensive game to anything resembling a threat considering the hand he's dealt.

Ehh? Maybe I'm just bad at life. (Then again it preforms pretty dang well against Haku's air to ground so you could be getting a false positive.) Against Koko, Tao, or Valk the move is a bag-o-sticks in terms of usefulness. At least for myself.

Thing about Tager and Bang is they have 236236B/A (respectively) as plausable reversals that cover air approaches whereas our metered reversal 2363214C is also bad for air assaults. I know that's not a huge difference or advantage that they have over us but it still needs to be considered. (I'm not about to argue that Relius is worse than Tager i any way shape or form.0 I know 2C has a good share of actives and great reward too, but it's lack of vertical reach coupled with its frame 7 head invuln means it will likely ether be baited or outright beaten. Large recovery coupled with lack of other defensive tools means an almost certain punish if whiffed. it's horizontal hitbox isn't really so much an issue as the placement of it's hitbox. As a result of it being our only reliable anti-air, losing to cross-ups, and things like valk's j.C are just an expected thing for Relius players. It's not the game's worst anti-air, but it's our best one, and it doesn't preform as well as we need it to. That said even a bad tool when used well can be useful and a Relius can and should milk 2C for all it's worth and more. After dabbling in it I've found quite a few more redeeming qualities for the move. To list a couple; firstly like Errol mentioned 2C has a lot of actives, a deceptive amount even, if you drop a corner combo intentionally at a low height you can "whiff" 2C on their recovery frames for their air tech and you'll catch them when those I frames end and they expect to be able to punish your recovery. Another is the fact that it can be an effective ground to ground, I've had it cleanly beat gustav for a fatal>5A+B punish. another is the fact that if blocked it can be converted into 3C>jump to be made safe or late canceled into 3C for a frame trap and delicious 3C counterhit. These things do little for our defensive game though, so much as improve our already bolstering offensive =P Necro, we still have the game's best and most universal defensive tool, the ability to block. No one has safe pressure endlessly, Relius is about the closest the game even comes to that, so I think we've gotta just suck it up and block like gentlemen do.

There's certain situations where w.brkj.A beats out 5A (even pre-patch.) Really you should only mash 5A during an instant block when they are going for another wj.A.

I should mention that it's midscreen going to corner (so that 236C~214A>663C can connect.) I wish I had a video capture device (or whatever) that I could show you. For the one listed you just want to wait until the latter part of the 214A's hitstun to use 3C so that she can use 236D low enough to hit their head. Anyway, to do the [236D + j.C] unblockable all you gotta do is cancel into 236D from 3C like you would 236C, but then hold the 9 direction to jump and use j.C in a way that it'll hit them immediately on their wakeup. How does one make vids using a PS3? It'd be super cool if I could make combo and set-up vids.

It's pretty much on a "whenever we're on basis."

I have a real fun way to set this up. after the 41236B in any midscreen combo you can to 5C/3C/5B>236C~214A>663C>236D +Jump j.C. Ignis will be up high so it sometimes doesn't register as an unblockable because 236D will whiff if they crouch. In reality it is, because if they don't stand j.C will get them. I feel like Relius' amazing reset potential is the reason he can scarcely do over 4500 damage.

Don' worry 'bout it! you're doin' me an incredible favor in all of this, so I wouldn't mind if you decided you needed a year or two to sort stuff out. ^_^ I was super worried that you'd posted it somewhere and I missed it though. I'm just glad that wasn't the case. ^_^"

So I've been looking for alternative uses of our moves. I've accidentally used 236D at neutral when my opponent was beginning to rush me down on a few occasions. Realizing my mistake I jumped back out of the way, but my opponent still found themselves landing in 236D's range and being hit or forced into blocking it as it gave me an unexpected pressure/combo/mix-up opportunity. I wonder if there are any situations where we could reliably use 236D to have Ignis function as a stationary trap to catch rush ins. Since it happened the first time I've tried with some success. I've also seen use in using 236D to counter-bait foes expecting Tus when zoning with Ignis. (Typically after 214B, j.236C~j.214B, or j.2D.) It's even more plus on block than Tus, it catches people off guard, and it keeps the wife safe so I'd definitely consider this use. (If you use it while Ignis is a little off the ground, not only will it cover a truly massive horizontal and vertical area only surpassed by Tus, but it'll mess with your opponent's instincts on how to block it.)

Ah thanks for the info! it was immediately helpful. ^_^

BWAHAHA I've done it! My creation lives!!! So you know the trick I used to get 236C to go into 3C? Same principle applies with 4D! Here's the combo. 5B>3C>236C~214A>41236B>4D>5B>(5B hits them into the last few active frames of 4D)>5D>5B>2C>6C>22A/(5A+B>3C) without 5A+B: [3701DMG/+26HT/-2000IG] with 5A+B: [3988DMG/+1HT/-2000IG] In the CT version Ignis has healed like 1900 by the time the opponent techs. Here's another version that does a little more time wasting (without meter!): 5B>3C>236C~214A>41236B>4B~D>dash>5D>6B>TKj.236C>2C>6C>22A [3818DMG/+27HT/-2000IG) (you can't Crush trigger sadly D: ) Off of a 236C punish you can do: 236C~214A>41236B>4B~D>665D>6B>TKj.236C>2C>6C>5A+B>3C [4095DMG/+2HT/Full or near full Ignis] ^in this combo, both heat and Ignis wise you make what you spend and then some! The best part? We might be able to do this maneuver on any 41236B>5B>4D>3C>5D enders to get Ignis recovery quicker. I only tested these on Jin. I don't know if have it in me to test these on every single character. My soul hasn't healed from last time, and I have a baaad feeling about tager. So I may leave testing and solutions up to you Necro.

So I've been up to fiendish and depraved things again. I've discovered another lovely use for 236D during corner 3C oki. it involves 236D neutral jump to bait rolls and DPs and stuff, and then a second neutral jump which will cross them up because of 236D's pull. Very tricky because no one ever does expect a neutral jump to cross up.