Tiamat

There are more videos where Sols lose to Order Sols but I didn't post them, I was just posting the ones where Isa DIs like an idiot and two of them just so happened to be against HOS. If you look on the sidebar of the Kaqn vs Isa match you can see him lose 2 more times or so though. I really don't think Sol has reached his growth potential largely because of the players but that's just what I think.

really smart with the dragon instals there Isa http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoGu8rUdaQw vs Kaqn http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJ3VLkx0Pl4 vs PC http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYWc58xzCSI vs KZO http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeshOkt3pXM&NR=1 vs KA2 does he really think he can turn the match around with that? if it's just his way of giving up he really shouldn't, it's never over till it's over. granted he did beat PC in the round where he used it but I don't think it was because of the dragon install, he better be happy he still had a burst or he woulda been toast. even if he did it thinking "oh i can just burst if it doesn't work" it would still be a stupid idea. PC went for a 6H GV combo for really high damage but it's easily bursted out of and that's the only reason Isa got away with it. If PC had just gone for something more easy to bait bursts with like a command grab combo, isa might have died for bursting and if he didn't he would get knocked down (if not dead) and PC would have had 50% meter to fuck him up with and isa had like none. I'm aware that this is all in hindsight but I'm trying to point out how stupid it is to use DI even without hindsight, just pointing out that even the match he won when he used it was a stupid idea. isa needs to just chill, he seems to do stupid stuff at the end of rounds that gets him killed when if he just backed off a bit he'd be ok. If he's up on life by a lot and they are almost dead, and he's not already rushing them down he doesn't have to, he should play safer like PC. i think his balance is almost just right but he needs to realize that near the end of rounds he doesn't have to keep going totally rushdown when their life is low cause it just gives them the opening they need for a comeback he seems to have some problems with his corner jump in pressure after frc gunflames, somehow he manages to botch them a lot and get thrown, and I don't really know why he's using the H VV so much either. maybe he could fix his rough edges if he devoted himself to Sol more but he's too busy tier whoring

I think that Isa's sol (lets ignore his eddie for now) was a lot better in Slash not just cause Sol was better but because I think both him and PC didn't adapt well to his changes in AC. This is also the first GG game with any notable changes in mechanics since XX with the addition of throw breaking, slashback, force breaks, wallstick, ground slide, etc. and it's possible that in some way they aren't adapting to these changes as well as other players either, not simply their character's changes. I agree with beast about Sol's problem of having to play pretty unsafe to get things done, and now that I think about it that really is PC's problem is he plays too safe. He's actually TOO careful. Safer characters don't need to find a balance so much but the character benefits a lot if you can find the ideal balance. I think they basically fell from grace so to speak. I'll make an example from another game that may not mean anything to a lot of you so feel free to ignore it. In SC2 Mick and RTD were pretty damn dominant in the US at least. SC3 comes along, did their characters get worse? Nah they actually got better (sophitia more debatable than Cass who is not really debatable). However, the players for whatever reason didn't adapt well to the changes either to their characters, the game system, or both. As a result, anytime past the early months of the game's release they really didn't win shit anymore even the tournaments they did go to. For a personal example I play Nightmare who fucking sucks in SC3 largely because of safety problems. One month last year I went to NJ playing super safe and I got totally owned and everyone thought I sucked. Next month I go again and I beat the best player in NY and the best player in NJ back to back in the tournament cause I found the balance. Player style is a huge factor. How about this...let me compare PC/Isa's Sols with some 5-5 or advantage matchups. Isn't HOS vs Sol a 5-5 matchup? Cause by looking at videos I would think Order Sol was at least 6-4 simply because the better order sols seem like they rape the better sols. How about an advantage matchup comparison...Sol has advantage on Anji (my guess is 6-4, it was 7-3 back in slash). Yet, I bet you if Domi (best anji) played any of those Sols he would beat them more than they beat him, or at the very least they would pull even (though I doubt this). either way that's not reflective of the matchup cause the Sol players aren't pulling their weight.

I wasn't gonna post anymore but since someone at least partly agreed I'll continue. I think Sol would move up a bit (not a ton but at least into the middle of the cast, not the lower half like he is now on the list anyway) if it weren't for the fact that IMO the top Sol players are significantly worse than many of the other characters' best players. I think they could take him a bit higher if a really smart player with good combo skills got really deep into GV combos and stuff (which give him very high damage for no meter off almost anything at least in theory). PC and Isa both lose a lot and I think a big part of it is them not the character. I'm not saying they are bad, they are very good but not OMG crazy good. Isa seems better than PC from what I've seen (PC just seems like kinda weak sauce) and he does better combos and pressure and stuff but he also does some pretty stupid stuff. I was watching the 23 on 23 matches among others, and Isa goes into Dragon Instal way too much, and almost(?) every time he does it he loses. I think mentally he's just not as strong as he could be, many of his other loses look highly avoidable to me if he was a bit more careful. Not to mention the whole issue where he's mostly using Eddie now (from what I can tell). If I were to make an anji comparison (not sure how many people will be aware of the better anji players) and I compared them to the best Sol players, I'd say that PC and Isa are roughly on Ang/maybe 2 or 3 others' level but none of them are as good as Domi. He's certainly ya step up from all the others. ang seems a lot like isa to me cause they are both rushy and flashy but they lack that good defense/smarts that pushes them to the next level. Another one I could make briefly is that Kaqn seems to beat on Isa a lot (at least in the youtube vids I looked at) and I'm pretty sure he's better than PC as well, but I think Kaqn is still a step down from some of the other players. As for Testament, I am well aware that he's been in top 2 with Eddie for a long time. I'm just curious why the list has him at number 1 now, when two of the lists have eddie as number 1 (and the other one he's at number 2). So by averaging the lists you get eddie as number 1. I was also under the impression it was pretty widely accepted that Eddie was the best character. If he only recently moved into number 1, I would ask if it had anything to do with Shonen raping damn near everyone. Cause it's not just his character I think he's a lot better than almost all the other players just in general. Eddie players have good ol' Ogawa though so I don't think there's a big gap in skill level between the top eddie and testament players. I'm not sure of the level of the other eddie/testament players relative to ogawa/shonen but I do think they are about the same level so fair comparisons can be made. In HnK Juda went up the tierlist largely because of the famous player "White" and all the crazy stuff he came up with (along with just being a really great player anyway), so it's not like it can't happen, though I understand Sol wouldn't be the same thing exactly by any means.

:8/:

I do think that the top players Sol players not being godly has a substantial effect but whatever. If he's "average" why is he in the second lowest tier? looks to me like "below average" from that list you got there. not to mention testament magically being at number 1, unless the list is influenced by lists that have not been posted.

I think a big reason Sol is ranked so low is because there aren't any really stellar Sol players right now. Isa's main is Eddie now too I think, not to mention his questionable dragon install use and PC is still playing slash Sol or something. why is Testament #1 on the list now?

I dunno, maybe if you are running when you do the TK BL crossup that would change it a bit. hmmmm. I'll look into it. course if you have a web in the right place you wouldn't need meter to get a combo I'll contribute a combo I saw Shounen do several times. He does a S beast frc (which is blocked) and then dashes in really close with 2D > H beast > 6K BL > tk BL x2 for big damage no tension from a low, more reps on lights I assume and you could do stronger variations after the normal BL based on the character you are fighting. personally I get the NC overdrive a lot by accident when I'm doing this cause I'm dashing into the 2D, but if you delay your input of the H beast a bit you'll be ok. Other thing is if you want more damage you can dash in with 5S 2D into the same combo and the 5S will raise their guard meter a bit. for mixup you could do 5S 6P into something. most of the time he just did the straight 2D not 5S2D and I dunno the reason but just letting you know.

he's being incredibly sarcastic i kno rite my new list for anji is a lot better, the old one is mostly just slash/ac comparisons

I would like to revise the Anji one because it's old and also because it has too many references to slash, should be more focused on how he is here and now as a character [ANJI] [Tiamat] Pro * good anti-pressure/okizeme options with autoguards and 236H's invincible frames, allows him to escape some unblockables on wakeup that almost no one others can, among other things * he has a versatile variety of autoguard special attacks. P for anti air, K has lower body invincibility and good horizontal range, D force break not that useful but has sick priority, and an overdrive as well * good okizeme pressure, possible unblockables with Shitsu force break * good corner pressure * very good normals in general both on the ground and in the air * one of the best air throws in the game * air mobility is great due to an amazing super jump and the ability to use jD to brake jumps to make air movements more unpredictable Con * needs 25% meter minimum to do decent damage most of the time, damage not spectacular by any means * often has to give up significant damage to maintain knockdown in combos * overly reliant on corner for pressure and combos *mix up options generally low reward without satisfying another condition. his overheads either need shitsu or a RC to allow for combos and his throw is weak * autoguarding moves are fewer and less useful despite having a much more versatile set of special moves from autoguard * 5S does not raise guard meter on block at all, not spectacular at raising guard * midscreen pressure is rather weak * generally weak spacing game, trouble getting in against several characters * cannot make you dizzy to save his life * guard meter easily jacked up * horrible DAA, usually trades with the next hit of their blockstring so you will often take damage for using this even if it hits * backdash sucks, horrible recovery and not many invulnerable frames * zero (?) advantageous matchups, some matchups are heavily against him If you would edit the first post by replacing the old list with this one I'd appreciate it.

weird I made a post but it's not here, guess I'll try again I didn't see any combos listed for TK BL crossup so I came up with a silly one that costs 75% tension and does 222dmg on Sol. TK BL crossup > RC > airdash jD 1hit BL > 5H GD > 5H BL > BL

hm I think you are right x_x edit: tested by looking at the damage since the air one does less. looks like the non superjump one you just have to not do it as fast like you said

hmm ok I was curious because I was doing it by accident and then i realized that it made it easier to get the second badland with the sj version for the one I was doing, so I was doing it on purpose and then i wondered about it. time to practice some combos...

that's not really my question though, I'm wondering about difference between normal TK and superjump TKing it if there's any difference or not I'm just wondering which one I should use or if it matters at all. btw Testament forum imo is very nicely organized, not too hard to find good information compared to other chars forum

oh I see it now XD I got a combo question. I know for Testament TK BL is a big thing for combos. I was wondering if you have a notation for a superjump TK BL, or are you always supposed to do that? cause a normal tiger knee is like 2147 but superjump version you do something like 32147. superjump one seems to be easier to hit with but goes higher up so it seems that they are more likely to be able to tech because they are higher up if you end with it. for example lets say I throw sol midscreen into 6K BL > TK BL x3 for the TK BLs should they all be superjump versions? or only one or two of the reps? does it matter? I just started practicing combos with him yesterday so I'm still getting used to the quirks with his combos.

I'm sure this is already known but I didn't see it in a quick skim of the topic so I'll post it. Potemkin only (midscreen combo): 2K/5K cSfS 5H BL > 5H BL x 3 from 2K it does 114 and from 5K it does 180. that's a lot considering this is potemkin. provided you wait properly you get knockdown off it. gains you about 35% tension too. combo is absurdly easy as well. lol again sorry if that was known already but I felt like posting it, it's fun to do

that was a very nice zappa, his spacing with the backdashing and fS spam looked really annoying to deal with

isn't there a hidden followup to that super? i thought i saw it in a combo vid he also has a qcbK special in the air after his stomping move (air 2K?) that's not on his movelist if you didn't know

i guess freeman can't do 5A to anti air? bad priority or just that the reward sucks?

heh yeah... i like that you can do scrubby combo from a low with 2B2B 236A x3 but yea... how does his super move red slash thing do as an anti air? any good? you can try to be cool and use the reversal super against jump ins I know that heh those cost meter of course and im not sure if the first one even works i posted this one the first page but i like this freeman vs kain match

I read about stuff on the SRK wiki for the game and learned a lot of thigns, I'm gonna get hte ps2 ver... i think it's interesting how they dont' let you just defend from short hops...good idea

I know that sounds vague but I really didn't know how I did it. XD I don't have a copy of the game on me (I'm thinking I'll get the PS2 version even though I already have the DC one...not that expensive) but someone there was showing me the cancel thingy...but it was with 4A+C or something and he didn't do it with Kain... when you say 2AB do you mean crouch A then crouch B then standing C? or do you mean to press them at the same time and it creates a cancel so that move will come out? also can you do short hops in this game like in KOF XI? cause sometimes in vids it looks like they jump way lower than normal

I played this in casuals at a tournament a couple days ago. Forgot how fun this game is. I did a hard punch with kain a few times and couldn't figure out how I did it. I see it used in guard crush strings in vids...

true

Alabama vs Maryland was fun to watch