St1ckBuG

Play Valk. Learn 1 combo. Get top 8. Good shit.

Stay gdlk Dustloop.

Hey look a tournament with my name in it.

He'll never make it that far into the brackets by doing the same combo and blockstring over and over. D:

OMFG that avatar. Yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss!

There's a thin line between being a dick and enforcing rules. There IS a difference, and there IS a way to enforce the rules without being a dick. Believe me, I've had to do it every summer for the past 4 years. Back on track: soft-banning the stage is a good call. Next time make a poll with the thread.

Yeah man, EVO this past year was so hype for GG! Remember in Grand Finals? It was hype as shiiiiiiiiiiiiiit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wuku was bodying Hellmonkey, and then Hellmonkey said fuck this shit and starting bodying Wuku making a comeback, get's a fucking PERFECT and then... yeah, wait, what? Edit: You can see Hellmonkey's salty-ass reflection in the TV after it gets shut off. Stay gdlk EVO.

Spirit, why are you making legit thread topics that make sense? Practice stage is pretty stupid... atleast in SF4 there's the red line in the middle and you can kind of see when the wall is coming. Soft-ban would be good as long as you'd explain the rule before you start running brackets.

As I said, you WON'T be streaming anything GG/BB related until we're in top8/top16 (or anything better than that). I know Sp00ky will stream finals, but any hype matches that happen before that won't matter since he'll be busy streaming Super matches. That's all I'm saying. I didn't want anyone to think we'll just be able to stream the whole GG tournament because we want to. That area will be good for BB/GG though. Last year we were in the spot right behind the stream and one of our TVs couldn't be used because people would walk THROUGH the setup to watch SF4 matches (or just take a short-cut to get where they were going). For commentary? No clue. Someone who can yell.

Jin numbers will be done once Render gets around to it.

I can garuntee you 100% that all casuals and tournament matches (pre-top 8 or 16) will be Super. This won't change anytime soon. Sp00ky is streaming this, so he'll be doing Super to keep viewers up and complaints down.

Noel/Tager was changed to favor Tager. Only waiting on Jin input and then worldjem will be making it look pretty in excel.

All those numbers match (or is in your range of) what's already on the chart. Thanks.

All those numbers you have listed are within .5 of what's already on the chart. Thanks though.

I didn't change Makoto much because the suggested changes were only .5 off... and with the Tager input (against Makoto) I realized that no one is going to agree on what the final match-up should be. I've got two completely different sets of numbers from people, so I decided to 'split the difference' and leave it at that. People won't like it, but this chart isn't here to please. In all honesty I think it's still too soon to even put her up on the chart since she's only been out for two months. With that being said, I don't think people should look at her numbers that seriously since no matter who they're from, they won't hold much merit because she hasn't been around long enough. No, 2 months isn't long enough... I don't care how many matches you've had on netplay or how good you are on your block. Anyone can talk about the chart because I know some numbers are wrong (read the disclaimer next time people). I'm not some almighty god like SpiritJake who will strike you down with his modly wrath for dissing West Coast.

So, we've done some more work on the chart. Got some Tager input and working on Noel and Jin. I'm not going to touch Makoto anymore because it just seems like a constant back and forth with her. As of right now I think it's immpossible to get all of her match-ups into that magical +/- .5 window, while at the same time making almost e everyone happy. Hopefully we'll have an updated chart within the next few days.

There's a balance between the # of people you let work on this, and getting good results without too much 'conflict' in opinion. A lot of the stuff you guys have said has been changed though. A lot of the Lambda match-ups. Spirit changed some Ragna stuff (dat WC bias). Jin changes are hopefully on the way. Tager changes are hopefully on the way. Makoto changes are hopefully on the way. Edit: Biscuits, I thought you were in the room when they were filling this in? O well, guess not.

My list was done by: Zidane: Hazama LordKnight: Litchi/Ragna ZONGone: Carl/Arakune Dacidbro: Bang Myself: Lambda/Ragna/Makoto Alzarath: Hakumen/Rachel XAQshinor: Mu/Tsubaki Mr.Biscuits: Arakune TaoFTW: Taokaka I was going to ask stunedge for Jin input, but he plays in Japan, and this is a US list. I guess I could ask Render? Veteru wouldn't do Ragna, so that was filled in by whoever knew the opposite match-up. I'm not going to get some netplayer I don't know to do Noel... maybe Danny Scheme, but I'm not sure who he gets to play against up North. Nas never answers his damn texts. Tager... eh? I dunno who would actually do it. MikeZ? Henaki? When it comes down to it, this is just a spreadsheet of opinions... and we all know opinions are 100% correct right? Right? It's been revised slightly, but I'm not going to post a new sheet everyday. People need to chill out.

Anytime. Sorry if I came off as a dick (it's late and this thread hurts my head). So no offense to you, but it's a pet-peeve of mine to have to re-post information or guidance over and over again. Once again, sorry if I came off as a jerk.

Blade, I'm not trolling you and I'm going to give you legit advice. Ready? Alright. Due to how offensive options work in most fighting games, it's required to know what your opponent's character is capable of. Pretty much what your concern is: "Hey, X character has Y gatlings and X character has Z staggers". Alright, this is good, you've noticed that fighting games require you to know what your opponent is capable of. To overcome any match-up you must know your opponents arsenal, any person that's played fighting games for more than 5 minutes catches on to this: usually they're first question is "what was that, and how can I beat it?" When you're opponent is attacking you, there are only so many options they have to 'break your guard', but you can pretty much break it up into a few categories: 1). Mix you up by doing a high/low. 2). Make you think you're allowed to push a button by staggering a normal. 3). Mix you up by doing poke/throw. 4). Mix you up by doing left/right. 5). Unblockables. In order to deal with your opponents options to breaking your guard, you must know what they're able to do to you. Let's take your Ragna example... he's mixing you up by doing high/low, so how do you beat this? If you sit down in practice mode and go through Ragna's normals with the computer set to block, you'll notice after a while that Ragna can gatling 2B > 6B or 2B > 3C. This is Ragna's most basic form of mix-up during his pressure. You're on the right track: you've noticed an option that your opponent has to break you guard. Your next step is figuring out how to beat it. So, let's start off simple: how do you block this? In BB, overheads tend to be slower than lows and a character has more lows/mids than highs. Because of this, it's universal to block low (since that it where most of your opponents options are) and REACT to highs. So the simple answer is to block low and react to the start-up of the 6B. There are other ways to 'deal' with this pressure, but I'll just stick with the blocking part since that's what this thread is about. If you honestly think that reacting to overheads is 'overrated' then you're dismissing one of the first things you learn while playing fighting games: learning you opponents options, and learning how to block them effectively. In the end, guarding isn't an advanced tactic... at all. It is one of the key and basic elements to any fighting game that shouldn't require it's own thread to get explained. This is why people get angry or troll you, and you need to realize this. If you're that concerned with trying to figure out all of a characters options that they can use against you, you have character specific forums and a plethora (fuck yeah big words, get at me) of youtube/nico videos of BB matches to draw information from. There is no such thing as 'guard baiting'. You're theory-crafting methods to dealing with pressure, when there are already much more effective and simpler answers. I hope this helped.

If all OmniSScythe had to change from my own opinion was that the Tager match-up should be flopped (other than +/- .5 stuff, which I will flat out ignore... no offense Omni) then you could say I was responsible for Makoto. Tager was filled in using the opposite match-ups. Noel was also filled in using the opposite match-ups. There are no local Noels I felt comfortable getting info from (except from Nas or maybe DanyScheme), but it was damn easy to guess what her match-ups are like. In CT, the match-up was well in Noel's favor, but because she lost 6C as a reliable anti-air and the fact that she can't do 5A auto-pressure anymore (which was only 1 of her stupid pressure options against him BTW) the match-up changed slightly. If you don't think it's fair to call that match-up even you're just fooling yourself. If that's all people are complaining about on the Noel side of things, then kudos people: your beloved bottom-tier Noel match-ups were filled out by people who don't play her. It's amazing what common sense can accomplish sometimes. Ragna was filled in randomly because everyone and their mother can play Ragna (including myself) and because Veteru doesn't like match-up charts. I also main Lambda, so yeah, here you go: Ragna has no safe reliable way of getting in without risking something, whether it be primers or health. He has to run the gauntlet once he's knocked away. A 'good' Lambda will keep a 'good' Ragna out a majority of the time. If you think the match-up is actually 5.5-4.5 in Lambda's favor, then you need to start reading my posts: arguing +/- .5 differences in opinion is pretty much putting yourself on Blade status. See you at NEC man (I hope?). Stay gdlk. That disclaimer is 100% right. You just doubled the amount of people who actually love this game.

Black Star read the disclaimer... good shit. I'll update the chart soon. Prepare for Mu top-tier. Edit: I changed a few numbers for Makoto and I'll consider changing the Lambda match-up against Arakune (it will probably change). If anyone actually lists a legit reason for me to believe that the match-up should change I'll consider making the chart better for the good of the community. Things that will help your opinion would be: -I know you. -I know you. -I've seen you play (and not be a mashing scrub). -I know you. +/- .5 requests are ignored.

FYI, this list was made by people who play their respective characters. The people saying that Tager rapes Noel are the same people who thought that match-up was hard in CT... stay free. Also, I guess that first list was bad too, since it listed the match-up at 5-5... and nothing has changed since then. Guess you haven't taken this thread seriously for 240 pages. (Then again, who actually has taken this thread seriously?)

I picked up GG right after the release of AC (in the US), and it was my first fighting game I had ever played. When my sport was cut by my school (Rutgers) I started to go to the gaming club because I actually had the spare time to do so. FG's thrived there in the form of KoF, GG, MB, and Smash (yes Smash). This is when I went out and bought GG and picked up Jam. I had no prior FG experience... all my one friend did was point me to this site for guides and help. For someone who had never played a fighting game before, it wasn't hard to pick up little things as I went along: FD-braking, 1F jumps, option-selects, spacing, hit-confirming... the list goes on. While I was learning the game mechanics the execution came with it. As you play more and more you realize what you need to work on, and what you need to add your your game. Did learning the Jam throw FRC keep me from playing the game? No. I worked on it a little bit every day, for maybe 5-10minutes so that I wouldn't have to think about it during a match. I wanted the move in my muscle memory. This ultimately happens in every fighting game: you play it to the point where playing your character doesn't require you to think about every move you make. Hit-confirms become second nature and your combos get dropped less and less. You don't learn a character or the game in a day, but that seems what everyone wants now. The funny thing is every fighting game takes time and practice to learn, but why do people only complain about GG's execution? 1F links in Super, pixel links in MB, ROM infinite in Marvel, wave dashing in Smash, juggles in Tekken... every fighting game out there takes time to learn, why is GG any different? I don't know who started the 'GG execution is godlike' crap, but whoever doesn't want to play GG just because of what they read on some forums without trying to play the game in the first place only have themselves to blame. Find your local scene or make one. Travel to tournaments and meet new people. Tournaments are a lot different than what goes on here. The only reason there's hate on people is because when they say GG is too hard to learn, then it's easy to see they never really sat down to try and learn the game in the first place. What more do you want? No one is going to play the game for you.