Osuna

Bsledge, if it hits, usually leads to a combo, sometimes just a mix up as they have enough time to tech the stagger/you are to far away. It prorates a fair bit by itself, but if you did bsledge rapid super you'd get ok damage. Just ok. Not really that much more than the combo and for 100% meter that is pretty awful unless it is death.If you want to burn meter there are other ways, like spinny super rapid mix ups or burst safe 360 combos. 720's come easier off of obvious punishes like that blocked super. You have a lot of time to buffer several rotations to make sure the game knows you're spinning that stick, then you just have to press the button when you recover from block stun. Spend some time learning to combo off hits that you get, but also pay a lot of attention to what your opponents do so that you can learn their options. You don't want to throw every time they jump in a block string because you weren't paying attention.

Uh, isn't trading with 6A horrible advice since she can get a combo off the counter hit? Mag is so bad now, I wouldn't eat a combo for it. This match up is kinda funny though. Obvious 5D's can pull in a cat chair into you from max distance for max comedy points, if your sledge follow up hits a projectile right before it goes active it'll get stuffed. There are really funny rachel specific combos, learn them. Especially on 360s which are more likely than you would think. Because she has low hp, optimizing damage can make things run a lot smoother, and make it less likely she can go for a time out. I really miss 2C 5D in this match up for Really funny Rachel combos.

I think I got it off of 360B 2B 623C 623Cwhiff 6B 2C 623C SB MTW TB, or something...some sort of 360B combo that involved 623C and SB, which raises the question over when it is or is not practical/possible. Ara also gets full curse off an overhead and a low; and 70% off a lot of other hits, which is often enough since we can't exactly dodge that well. If he has meter he can get curse off almost anything, sometimes even off a curse combo. Also combo difficulty is very rarely worth considering, unless you aren't planning to get good at the game. I really think his ability to get curse started at least has been buffed more by the super than it has been nerfed by his combo changes, which aren't all That severe. At least not against us.

Don't forget arakune, and litchi still rocks us pretty hard from most distances. Tsubaki can run and charge all she wants, even with mag on her. Jin is just really good now. Rachel is generally better too, and can still run away from us. Hakumen is really rough too. Really changing our worst match up, wouldn't even pull us out of last place.

They Might be able to do that if they get rid of his proration bonused moves and give him a reasonable character rate, but when they opened up his combo options, they had to nerf his damage output. A lot of his old combos had like 5 moves in them and did good damage. Really, if they didn't nerf his magnets, and let him have his 2C gatlings he'd be much better. 6A 2C 4D, would get mag and a primer with no gaps on normal block, and with the old 5D and J.D the magnetism would actually mean something.

I'm not sure about this. I would like a more thorough look at the opponents options, to see if it isn't really more than a gimmicky frame trap, since you get the 6A mix up normally anyway.

That is of course an important distinction. I specifically ran into it while trying to improve my 360B combos, which have a good amount of proration in them. I'm hearing that it seems to be reliable at the right terra heights maybe? I'd like to hear more about the conditions for it. Reliability and what not.

I'm sure you already know this, but execution is the elephant in the room, you dropped almost every combo you went for and at times didn't even attempt the most efficient combos. Unless you request it, I'm not going to go over every single one, but I will say your use of MTW was highly inefficient. Rather than go for an unburstable collider whiff MTW TB you went for two resets which were both dangerous. Which might be justified if the combo wouldn't have been a kill combo, but it sooo was. What was with the Bsledge MTW about also? I would quit that altogether, tell me your reason for it and I'll tell you something more efficient for it. You lucked out because he got impatient (Love it when they do that), but Hazama didn't have to go near you ever, since you spent most of the time walking forward or backward, which he can zone safely. Moving under and over chains are slow ways to try and get into range, random spark bolts from full screen are really high risk, you can punish some low chains on reaction, so it is good to have spark to limit his options if nothing else. Regular throw isn't a great punish for gaps, or for damage, but it is safer on whiff... I want to ask whether you were going for forward or back throw. Since most of the forward throws would have put him full screen away and back throws are as slow as your jab anyway. That's a pretty nice phone recording btw.

For what reason though? The typical reason is to keep the game fun for new players, but ask any new player and they'll say they hate fighting against Tager.

Guys guys, we should put together that letter I talked about for the Q&A thread, something like "What the logic behind Tagers balance changes? By giving him so many limited use move changes like with the new 6A losing jump cancel, 6B proration/guard primer nerf, 5D/j.D magnet pull changes, forward throw change, and 2C gatling changes make the character very impractical in tournaments. Other changes like 6A having very late armor, make Tager more annoying for new players than before. What is the point of that?" Or something, I dunno, it's hard to complain in the form of a non rhetorical question, really I shouldn't be counted on for this.

Yeah! I was worried about sleeping arrangements, but the whole leave em wherever they drop method worked out fine. I wish we had a cooler name for our scene but battle ground and vancouver don't lend themselves well to portmanteau. Battle Van Couv Ground VanBat I think we just need to steal south Washington, since we're south of the existing south Washington scene anyway.

I don't have time to do it myself this week, but could someone experiment with 6C 22D after terrabreak? Very barely increases damage, and having 9 meter instead of 5 doesn't seem like a big deal, but if it's repeatable, or at least reactable to the proper terra height in existing combos, might as well go for it.

While this doesn't exactly show all there is, but I first noticed it when I was doing 5B 2B repeat at different ranges and was getting more hits before a whiff than I was used to.

Hey guys, I don't have time to test this today, so I thought I'd ask. If someone is falling into an active throw can they reversal (grounded)dp out of it?

On people/characters who mash 5A after certain moves looking for holes I do 2A 5C 6A then whatever, if I'm close and have decent frame advantage (which isn't that often but not totally implausible either). It's not really a great string but people who want to poke you out of it will very frequently get hit because there are a lot of gaps but they aren't big enough for most 5As, some even on IB. Of course if they properly dp instead of mash A they would get you. But hey I think we all know Tager never had much in the way of blockstrings. Also, manta, just to clarify your point a little bit. I think it is important to make the distinction for newer tagers that you can't "tech trap" someone who blocked something. I know it is nit picky, but we really should keep the jargon straight.

I think there needs to be an indication that the XYH 720 cancel is only during the first like 11 frames. Also, while the proration from sledge follow up isn't exactly bad, p1 doesn't tell you anything so it's damage potential should not be described in terms of its p1.

Ok, I need some opinions from stronger players. Is Gadget Finger no good here? I mostly played gadget finger by ear, by which I mean if I found it bad to use in a match up through experience, I'd stop using it. But I never stopped using it on Makoto. Now, this doesn't seem to make much objective sense to me, but for some reason it tends to work out. I'm wondering if anyone else has more experienced/objective views there. From my experiences Makoto doesn't often go for super high damage stuff out of gadget (Often movement options for some reason) and most of my correct predictions lead to either 3k or 360B into really big damage. I was just pondering this while messing around with 360B combos. I 720 a little less often now that 360B leads to similar (and often greater) damage plus mag and sometimes GF oki.

Man, I wasn't even trying and everyone still thinks I'm being mean. Edit: Also in my experience Tagers match ups are likely to get worse before the next game since new discoveries are disproportionately more likely to make his match ups worse rather than better.

That damage part is where a lot of people have a beef, you need magnetism or spark bolt to combo off it and if you only have spark you pretty much Have to use it or they are a full screen away. You'd also get more damage and meter comboing off 360B with the same or worse conditions (even if you can't do anything fancier than 360B, 5bxxSB,5Cxx623C,BGadget) also if I understand you correctly, to make your mix up work, you use 6A? (withmag) So the mix up turns into just a 6A mix up? And what stops them from rolling forward?

Ok, so you're saying that the charm is in Not comboing after it. I can honestly say I had not thought of trying that on my own. It sounds like a gimmick, but I could mess around with it tomorrow anyway.

I think there really is a language barrier, what do you mean "take away from me"? Just because it is untechable doesn't make it particularlly harder to tech or burst the actual combo that follows. Unless you aren't doing a combo and are just letting them fall for a mix up when they tech, I have no idea what you mean.

Jeeze PNW, you used to be cool. What happened man?

He means Tager's forward throw and back throw are untechable until they touch the ground essentially. Letting you do stuff like 4B+C 6B or what have you. I guess it is kinda cute, but I kinda liked how his throws used to work.

The first post really needs to separate 360A and 360B combos. Also all instances of J.C J.D 623C aren't real combos, but are slightly harder to escape than typical tech traps, soo do we really want them in there because they are plausible blue beat combos? If that's the case I think we'd have to add additional plausible blue beat combos. Or maybe just have a section for them. either way there at least needs to be note by it showing that it is Not a combo.

I don't think having good yomi can be assumed in a match up rating since it assumes that your yomi is better than theirs. I agree that breaking and preventing their aggression when possible is very important though.