Osuna

Not really much math to it. I just looked up the level 3 hitstun and it was 16 standing.

If it's just a straight up level increase then the earlier supposed 5C buff is not necessary or likely.

According to my math the first one would Barely get gadget, and otherwise work fine IF you dropped the last 2C. Aside from being really hard to land because of distance issues, the 2C makes BGadget impossible, so it's really not worth it. The rest might be just a little character specific, but I think not having to rapid is worth dropping the 2C. Also that 'current RC combo' looks like a pretty awful waste of meter in any match up you can do a meterless double collider, so the hypothetical combo might not work without a rapid on the same characters simply because they often have goofy air hitboxes. As for damage it should do Very slightly more damage and about 3 more heat. Again all values assume no proration or heat gain changes. EDIT: Actually the more I think about it, the less I'm sure it would do more damage, but not to the point where I'm confident it does less. The important bit is it is very similar damage and 3 more meter.

5B currently provides less than half of the heat 22D or 236B does. Unless either or both of their heat gains are significantly changed is a net loss in damage And heat to lose an ender for more 5B's. Just 623Cx2 5B 5C 6A 623C is brings the techable proration down to about 24%ish I think. Whiich I'm pretty sure is high enough to work off a naked collider and 5C/2C collider with the current proration numbers. But the combo you listed is less heat than J.d whiff which is also does more damage and ends up with the ender off far more situations. I understand the desire for higher heat gain, but can you not exaggerate some implications? It kinda breaks my heart to explain to people over and over later that buffs don't do what they thought. I've had to do this a Lot with exaggerated values for GF, 6A armor, and 720 cancel. Also who knows what else I can't remember offhand. EDIT: I've actually seen people say fuck tager or fuck this game when they finally find out that their buff wasn't what they were told it was, so I would very much appreciate no one inventing buffs from what we hear.

No, you're not being optomistic. You're jynxing it. Way to ruin it for the rest of us Ve.

5B proation isn't very good, and is unlikely to be buffed, but let's forget that for now. 5B in general doesn't do very much damage on it's own. It's a B, right now it has less than half the damage of 5C. Putting a Lot of them in a combo Before the first collider is Certainly a net loss in damage. At best it is a goofy way to rack up heat if you're extending your pre colider combo with it. 5B 2C should almost never happen. Except! if you can get 5A Really close. Then maybe, because despite the heavy proration from 5A 5B (which right now is 60%ish before character rate)you're saving like 15% proration before the first collider. I don't know if it's enough for meaningful extension, but in a new game, who knows? But 5B does less damage tha 2B and 2B can already otg/hit from outside 2C's range, so there's almost no reason to use 5B>2C over 2B>2C. Also IB barrier buffs could be good. I think they might accidentally buff us. EDIT: 5B is not 2C, That was a baaad typo.

5A hurts? Not unless the buff 5A or 5B proration a lot and the rule they followed so far is to nerf it when comboability rises. Even with what is typically the nice path of 5C 6A 2C, assuming you are close enough, by the time you hit the collider the collider won't even do 800 damage, and the only unprorated hit is our single weakest normal. The rest eats character rate. There's an increase in base damage (5C and 6A) and proration (5C) over 3C 2B 2C, but it's not That much. the proration only improves by changing 1 p2 from 88 to 92 and you get less than 25% of the base damage difference from the stronger normals, which was less than 300 points to begin with. So in conclusion unless there are proper unseen buffs, 5A still leads to less than it did in CS1, which was less than 1.8k. But yay more stable combos would be nice. 5B has worse prorate but more reach than 2B and, with the change, a combo path that can use the reach. EDIT: Oh and should the change stay there's way more incentive to block low after 5A now since 5B's higher base damage and slightly lower proration (and not needing to be followed by a 5B) the same combo's damage would be notably higher compared to 5A. If we can do something manly off a low it will dramatically improve our up close game. Of course everything depends on proration changes, I hope things work out well. EDIT EDIT: I missed this but someone was saying that Barrier had more push back against higher level attacks and that IB pushed back even more. While this is hard to consistently measure or describe in a particularly meaningful way and I really don't know a lot about it... It occurs to me that our 720, especially magged, has pretty good reach, If instant barrier builds up meter and pushes more than before then block strings in general might be easier for evryone to deal with and singe we don't have real ones anyway and have disproportionate ways of punishing whiffs and such, we might receive a system buff from a change like that on defense and on (relative) offense. They also can't jump while barriering, so it's use against us is even more limited. Might make the game weird though.

Unless you can identity utility from what we know, which you haven't, there's no reason to talk about it being useful or 'legit'.

Why are they so obsessed with putting CH properties on 6B? It's like an excuse for not doing real changes. Unless it gets 100p1 it should only get CH's by accident.

You see that's what I thought, but makoto's 5B is -1 and adding in the start up of the next normal, fastest of which is 5 frames, you still have a 6 frame gap not including any time for a dash Before the IB. Under this definition she'd need to do it off something at least +3 to need an IB and she doesn't have any normals that are +3. (edit:edit 5B into dash 2A is at least a 7 or 8 frame gap [i can count, kinda])

Can we define stagger real quick? I'm pretty sure makoto doesn't have Any normals you couldn't 360A a stagger off of on a normal block so I wonder if I'm not misunderstanding.

Rapiding unsafe string twice and getting lucky on a purple is actually pretty sad when you think about it.

In a related note, this is just a aesthetic thing, but latest J.2C should have more than head property on it. I'm literally crushing the ground at someone's feet and getting 6A'd.

It's still comparatively situational and as fast as it is, it cannot work in gaps most 6A's would be safe to use. I suppose I could say that it's inferior rather than bad. There are characters who have it worse, but I think calling it a good anti air is calling most 6A great anti airs.

The thing that actually gives me a hard time about remembering them is remembering which ones work Best. I'm guilty of going for 6C collider when I should do J.C whiff stuff. I just need to play a lot more till it's forced into my head.

But I used to do it all the time on hazama because I didn't know anything about character specific combos except that one. All you had to do was wait a little bit after the 6C for him to get high enough for the collider to catch him. I remembered it because of that unique condition.

Yeah, unless you get hit by something that knocks down or launches. The fact it runs out of invincibility before the first active frame is silly. I guess I should have focused on the stupider part where it goes active on frame 16 and the anti air property ends at 14.

You can can walk 6C Hazama and maybe tsubaki, but I haven't played CS2 enough to confidently remember all the character specifics, That's actually something Tagertime seems to be really good at so I would trust whatever he has to say on it.

2C can unfortunately trade and lose a combo, which is silly, also gains projectile property late. Collider is really slow for an anti air but is still the closest thing we have to a 6A. 2A is just situation because it doesn't have any anti air property. So what happens often enough in my experience is there are plenty of situations where an air dash, or just an instant overhead can be done and my best option when I call them out on it is to just block high.I mean for sure most 6A's aren't frame one invincible, and they aren't unblockable like collider but objectively speaking we don't have any comparable tools to a 6A.

I don't like frequent comparisons to SF because I really think they have lately not done a very good job with their grapplers. And Potemkin didn't use heavenly much, his 6P is a great anti air and it gives him oki. And his oki was actually awesome. Anywho, I find the thing that sucks about collider is actually that it's too slow to be reliable, causing it to whiff on a lot of air based aggression. The invinciblity isn't frame one but it kickis in a lot earlier than 2C, yet 2C is often better to go for simply because it goes active a lot faster. Also, collider being good damage for us is just sad. Collidering an unmaged makoto makes me die a little inside.

I read this first and was like "Really? When I scanned orion's reply I only saw about 7 or 8 worth agreeing with at a glance." And I stand corrected. He agreed with 9. on a list of would looks to be about 30 suggestions (So almost all is about 1 in 3?). I didn't think the beam super would fly. I apologize Tagertime. A beam super appeals to people. I didn't give you enough credit. That said, most of your suggestions were goofy, unnecessary or broken and just explaining those would have taken me a long time, since I'm so long winded. I'm glad to have left it to orion. On a much more productive note I've found Orion's notes very enlightening to our philosophical differences. I don't really need tager to be any stronger on wake up, and I don't want him to have a tool that is extremely strong against zoning. I would be quite satisfied with tager if they would stop taking away his modest utilities everytime they give him something new. There are just a few minor roll backs, and frame data adjustments, I'm talking things like changes to a single frame, that would improve Tager's match ups in a modest way. Now this is where I explain why I never considered myself a pessimist about Tager. I Like tager. If you completely redid Tager I don't know if I'd like him, if you gave him some sort of broken tool, I'd be kinda pissed off. If you gave him something completely out of character, like a dash, It better be a really shitty hop otherwise it really doesn't belong. I wasn't going to get CT. I got it because Tager looked fun and different and he is. I'm pissed and bitch and moan when they nerf him because what little he had was a lot of fun to me. I Love J.D whiff, 6A jc, IB 360B and in kinda the same vain I loved whiffing bursts through moves. I even liked playing against all of the broken CT characters. I hate when they give him Stupid buffs, because I had to trade in the stuff I liked for it. EDIT: Damage is relative, I played CT not that long ago, compared to the rest of the cast our damage wasn't That amazing. The real buff was that if we baited a burst or got a successful mix up after a combo we straight up killed them, but we weren't the only ones who could do that, and several characters did it much better than Tager.

I admire Orion taking on the task of explaining the many many things wrong with that list. I wouldn't know where to begin.

Again, this outlook makes no sense to me. If you were really good at mirrors that would be the hreatest possible benefit to us if you played tager. And people call me the pessimist.

I certainly think I'm not horrible at this game, but I've hit CS2 lighter than any other incarnation of blazblue, and could go for some intensive one v one to learn some match ups. I appreciate the sarcastic confidence in mah skillz haketh, feel free to give me money at northwest majors. It's what munsu would want if he was still alive instead of living in vegas.

1st post doesn't seem to have any dates