Osuna

Except, unlike collider it has no anti air invincibility and can be (Barrier) blocked in the air and if the jump forward, it should totally whiff, and if they go for a poke they can go straight into a low or throw depending on distance etc. Other than that, I don't know what you said. Edit: Does Hazama have a version of that 623D loop that works on other characters or is that a ginormous hitbox only combo path? The damage was pretty darn good mid screen. (Also Kikuchiyo is just a name in japan. Could be a family name or given for a girl I think)

For the record, I've been pessimistic about gadget since day one. I never saw what anyone liked about it. And the hype came way before any of the cool RC stuff too. I don't know what the deal was. 6A seems more obviously weak to me, hopefully it has some not punishable on reaction uses.

It's not a 50/50 with most of the cast. The only person I know who you ca deal with all of their options using 2 moves is arakune without meter, and he can full life combo you without curse if you guess wrong, so I still say that is in his favor. GF with no meter is usually at least 3 or 4 options for both players and if you pick any option except the exact one tager tries to counter you usually get a combo. At worst you get into zoning distance again. It is quite bad.

I understand fears about Tager breaking 5k or even 6k without meter. But he's never done that. has he? Right now (CS2) it looks like he can't break 4k meterless off anything except 360B, unless I missed something. The collider damage nerf implies to me that psychic collider would lead to less than 3k meterless. Before that, his ability to hit 4k meterless was dependant on him landing a very good starter like a J.D or a FC. Then there was the really really sad occasional 5A's that could only lead to 5B 3C GF. Heck if you're close enough to relaunch you don't even get 2k.

The change you're referring to, I believe was the change to hitstop. IB was indeed nerfed and Tager is indeed F'd. Once again pessimism, has prevented me from being let down by tager buffs.

I know a lot of the time I chime in and make meaningless corrections, but I honestly think it is an important distinction to make that they aren't being pulled in during the flash exactly. The buff is Really the pull before the flash. During the flash everyone is still frozen like normal.

That's ok, Tom bailed on it again, so neither of us were there. You really jumped on this opportunity, I've only just caught up on my homework and you've already got plans sorta. So this Friday? At what time is it ok to show up?

Ok, so not long ago, Hellsap said he could host and now you. I'm going to go ahead and say what I should have said a long time ago. I want a meet to happen. Really really bad. I'm gonna try and have a talk with Tom (Who can bring a set up or two and also has the ability to drive that I lack) Hellsap and whoever else. Oh and if R.Panda sees this I totally lost his contact information, or maybe it was never there to begin with. That's how lost it is.

Pay attentions to where they are when you whiff the collider, after looking at that for a while, I got a sense for when I could land the 6C, when I only had enough time for 6B etc. That way, even when I do screw up I don't completely drop it. also don't forget how generous BB is with buffer times. About delaying, the j.2c, I'm not sure what that does to make it connect more often, it's not like if you whiffed the 6C that you'll accidentally j.2c and be in trouble, or that you can do it too early on most of the cast. I know Valk needs a delay, but Makoto won't get hit by the 2C if you do the j.2C too late. It is? I was under the impression that his forward dash was 48 frames (Can he cancel it or something?), which is way slower than his backdash, if gadget whiff still pulls in closer, he'd still get the punish doing the same motions. If you had a great sense of timing, I suppose you could hold the gadget for like 6 or 7 frames depending on how early it started and then 720. That way you have an option that beats backdash, (in theory) forward dash and is safe if they jump.

That's not what ironic means. Also yeah, it's not an often talked about mechanic. Barrier alone reduces the chip by a whole lot, so the difference isn't very easily distinguished like other properties in the game (super obvious whiff circles). I found out about it from a friend who randomly went through the in game tutorials and then observed it later, by I think winning a match on normal barrier chip. I personally think it is stupid.

According to the in game tutorial for CS1 barrier reduces chip damage but only instant barrier reduces it to 0.

Yes you did. What you saw happening was early 720's that could not grab you during the flash, perhaps you were in the late end of a neutral tech or something similar, and holding up in that case gets you out. Easy enough to test if you have any doubts.

720 pulls before the flash now. I thought the 5A 2B thing was interesting, if a bit weird. Let him see whether they were trying to jump out or block after the 5A and got a more damaging punish for it than any lows. Pretty gimmicky lookin' though.

That's not what the word magnanimous means. To keep this from being a Totally off topic post, I'm also going to say that Carl was never bad, but his short comings consistently keep him from S tier and the mention of some of those short comings persisting means to me he won't be S but like always will be good. And to hedge my bets, since I'm so unqualified for Carl talk, I should probably ask LK a question. So...LK...whatcha think...about Oh! The new anti air properties on so many ground normals, as a litchi player can you see this dramatically changing any match ups?

I don't like it when people call a strange application of game physics a glitch.

5C 6C spark has proration down to 21ish percent before the first collider, which is a no no. 5C 6C collider (I think on normal block you have to delay or hold the collider a tad for her to get to the right height to get grabbed) is fine. You get mag at the end of the combo anyway, so even 5C spark is kinda a waste. I'm reasonably certain you can't do double collider into b/egadget with such high proration starters. 5C 5D 236A~236A RC 6C AC brings the proration to somewhere around 16 percent before the first collider, the proration is sightly less horrible if you use use something like 5C instead of 6C, but over all the damage is sad and the extra meter gain is more than negated by the RC and it is just bad. You also have to be really close to litchi, and probably have Ibed/walked a lil to hit litchi's narrow hitbox with the 5D, might as well 360B punish in that scenario. 6A 2C on instant block and not too far away would be the best punish you listed of course, at least is sounds plausible. I'm not speaking from experience on that one.

If not, I'm fairly certain you could just 6A 2C for similar damage/proration. Also while I like 360B traps, I don't feel like it would be hard or confusing to escape right now, and you could have 360B'd at any time you could have forward thrown anyway. I want to know how much we can do blue beating off the throw ac whiff. Since right now it looks light a late tech bypasses all mix ups? I get the feeling it'll be one of those things that don't work on decent players, but the angle is unusual so I'm hoping it'll have special circumstances that'll keep it useful.

So like I said you'd be able to do the standing 720 as fast as you could spin 1 720. 63214D7896321478C I know there's different short cuts and whatever, but the idea is there. I'm again assuming the motion uses D, because I never saw B confirmed and it really would be better as D since there are no motions with even a chance of accidentally coming out.

The attack level of the move infers the blockstun length, but frame advantage is useful in that it tells you relative to the length of the move when they will recover, which I personally find Way more practically useful than attack level when learning a tick throw. Also if a move is say plus 5 on block like 2B is, then you won't be canceling it into a throw anyway, you know this instantly because it is plus 5, not because of it's attack level. Except for 6A which can hit at really different times, I find that the frame advantage is a better cue for when to throw. Also my personal 4 fav ticks are levels 0, 1, 2 and 3 so I can't even carry the timing from a given level across multiple moves. But more importantly, I mentioned the frame advantage to show that 5B didn't have a lot of hit stun for the length of the move, and the timing for the throw could change a lot or become more confusing if they messed with the recovery or attack level. They just have a lot of room to mess with 5B in that direction compared to say 2B.

So then your objection was meaningless and Orion can go back to being happy about the buff? I'm kinda confused by your back and forth going no where. I've noticed a lot of people talking about 214B then 720, but isn't the new motion 214D (Making the motion something like 63214D7896321478 or something similar?) And wasn't the old motion 421B? Did they sneak in another command change on me or are people just making up commands for XYH?

Or in the 5 frames before the superflash. Before the button press implies a 0 frame throw.

We all know that, the real point of contention was whether or not the timing was slower or faster than usual on that tick. Myself, waks and Heroic think it looked much faster and would have purpled in CS1. Axis and Nartearista seem to think that 5B was delayed a lot more than usual, perhaps hinting at the rumored later 720 timing off 5B. Also 2B is plus 5 not plus 3 and 5B was -3, so there could be a decent shift in timing if it went plus. That whole less hitstop thing might make tick throws a lot stronger if 5B's is as short as I'm seeing. It's not even a level 1 or 0 move and that was pretty fast, probably. So I'm thinking things like J.A 360B could be really fast and sudden, maybe.

But there weren't any exclamation points. Do you think the 5B update was really about it losing hitstun? It looked really quick to me too.

He used it as a punish too, which was not very optimal. I meant using 360B instead of 5A as a punish. Which is obviously better at pretty much the same range. Really I think the 360B buff is a bigger deal than the 5C 6A. When are you gonna do that? 6A 5C was a typo, I meant 6A 2C, which could be less damage than 5C 6A 2C, but seems more plausible to me. ...I'd like to try hit confirming counterhit 5C into charged 6A on a magnetized opponent and see how much pull you could get off using the extra hitstun for charge time. 6A 2C would be a slight improvement over 6C off CH 5C.

5C 6A 2C does not necessarily make a new bnb, in fact I'm pretty certain it won't unless you're pretty close because 6A doesn't pull very much with no charge. Maybe with mag an a slight hold at certain distances. I'm not really imagining using our 5C at that range very much though, what with people having 5A's and 5B that work much better at the same range. The video he linked did (CH) 5A 5C 6A 3C 2B collider bgadget for 1.8k he did that because he was too far away to get anything else to combo. Later when he was point blank it looked like 2C might have worked on bang, but he didn't go for it. Maybe 5C 6A could replace 6A 5C in some spots for more damage, but when you're super close and have a punish like that, 360b seems more logical. I'm very underwhelmed and kinda worried that we might be taking another damage nerf in order to get better abare, again. Fingers crossed that clears up. I'm personally more worried that our bread and butters might do less damage than before the way the changes have been going.