Osuna

Wait, 6C, j.2C off fatal? Was it previously confirmed that 6C j.2C no longer works in non fatal combos? That would be a bummer for me.

That's ok, it was more funny than inconvenient. I think since videos are averaging close to 15 minutes, posting times when discoveries are made would be really helpful. I missed some and really wasn't going to spend half an hour watching a video till I catch tager getting hit during XYH recovery.

When was XYH punished for no CH? It's a long video and I really don't want to watch another 11 minutes searching for individual things again. I want to see how tight it was to get an idea for how many fewer CH frames we can suppose. I looked at it again but XYH can still be CH'd when you let go but the time in which you are in CH state is reduced. He did it against Litchi in one of those vids. And I believe he would have beaten litchi's Tsubame but it does 2k and tager just didn't have the health to survive it. and I edited your post by mistake, I have to really slow down on this...sorry dude.

You want to do it at the end so it doesn't purple, you can do it plenty early if you wanted. There was a lot of speculation that the cancel would be gone because the idea behind 6A buster was that the jump cancel makes it possible. Happily it's still there.

or by 17%. It makes a difference. Or at least it used to. Generally speaking fast short range moves being one frame slower or faster isn't negligible. There's a pretty big difference between 5A's that are 1 frame slower or faster. 360B being 2 frames faster was a pretty big deal. There were a few places where a back throw would not work. and there very well could be some in CS2. On the other hand, not everything developers put in a game is actually useful when the dust settles.

Unless it was changed from CS1 front throw is faster than back throw.

It's the 6A that doesn't add damage, not the 5C. unless they changed a lot more proration than I've seen reported, you'll want to go straight to collider for maximum damage/options. So I think it is very likely a moot point. I'm sure the difference was mentioned because it meant that 6A's naked pull was weaker, which is good to be aware of. 6A's speed boost is real, it is almost common knowledge now.

You can barrier 2 primer breaks safely, if you had a good amount of barrier. You can't add a spark because 3C isn't special cancelable still, I think. So yeah, whether or not it really is awesome remains to be seen. I get the feeling that properly barrier blocking might just push you out of 2C range too, maybe a slight charge on 6A will prevent that? I dont know. Using 50 meter, and a spark bolt to force the opponent to burst is kinda a bad trade anyway, but will probably be cool post burst? I feel like a lot of how tager will do hinges on how the 6A stuff works out in the end. I mean it looks cool, but it has some weak points that might turn it into one of those things that just piss off people who don't know the match up. So far in the videos I haven't seen a guard break both happen and result in a throw, but you never know this early in the game. I know I'm a pessimist, but I think that pessimism has the better track record so far anyway.

Flashing back to the last time this came up, as a general rule for people to remember, 6C has 1 or 2% worse proration than 6A>2C. Also to help with the spacing issue, MikeZ reminded people that if you wait a little before you RC Tager's 2D moves closer to them with enough time to still 6A.

6 frames is enough to 360B, at least that should be the size of the gap after an Ib'd Ragna 2B in CS1, so anything that left a 5 frame gap could still be punished by 360A. Unless they change some levels/start up it is totally safe even on IB except if they were airborn and IB'ed right before landing/air reversal. Which raises another question, What do we do when they block 2C in the air now? Asledge is all I can think of and that's pretty far from ideal.

Tagers level of awesome seems to hinge on the new 6A's potential to help him get in. If you look at what recovers guard primers, it pretty much what everyone does to us all day. Being able to break even 4 primers on someone who bursted isn't always a guard break or even danger mode if they had full barrier, 2 is almost not worth considering. Then they can get back to zoning us and get them back without that much fuss. The only awesome thing about this, is spark bolt. It's fast, and breaks a primer, and can be special canceled into randomly, forcing them to really have to pay attention. I think it makes guard break plausible, which will at least put pressure on them to barrier more and make both danger mode and the primer strings more viable. Otherwise this guard break thing is just something to make people rage quit because they don't know the Tager match up, but isn't actually that good. Same old same old. I also want to second that making Tagers really bad pressure slightly less bad is not worth making his few defensive options the opponent had to worry about almost non existent. It's not like we got repeatable pressure, mostly our unsafe stuff just turned into disadvantage. In exchange our IB 360B points (Or what would have been) get pushed down to IB360A points and 360A points are 720 only, maaybe non existent if it was really tight, I forget how things work and whether it amounts to a 1 frame timing or a no gap in the end. And all of our 720 only spots are very very gone. That's kinda a big deal to me. So is Tager's new 6A properties a good way to get in? If it isn't then the whole guard break thing is almost meaningless since I don't know how you expect to get them into 2C range 2 times before their primer/barrier recovers. And that's if they used up a burst.

They weren't taken out. They weren't done when the game got released. They were purely added later, unless you count the graphics for their names/artwork. I stopped readin this thread for a while and the front page is certainly not being updated, so what are we up to now?

Hakumen is one of the very few characters this can hit without walking forward, but he can't be it by the 6A, to get the 6A on bang you have to walk forward quite a bit before you jump. It's kinda tight. It's just something silly, it isn't actually supposed to be used as a bnb. Not only would MTW do more damage, but if you did AC whiff 6C J.2C 2B 2C AC etc you get 4k anyway making the extra damage pretty much non existent. Tager's character rate makes RCs for damage almost impossible.

I recall you saying that Tager was sooo good in CS that his only truly bad match up was bang.

Really? When did he get that? The IB change wouldn't give him repeatable pressure. You need to be plus to get repeatable pressure, off Asledge we'd be at best -4 on IB with the current changes. That's not even close enough to even to 360A most jabs. It's really only one frame closer to repeatable pressure than an IBed 4D was in CS1. Where if you pressed a button or tried to jump it would lose to 5A for sure. Besides that being at even we wouldn't be able to restart pressure anyway because our 5A is way too slow. We'd get a mix up, kinda though. Though I kinda hope they did fix A sledge up and I just didn't see t yet.

3C is 1 frame slower. Also in the context of a blockstring active frames/knockdown don't really mean anything.

It's slower. Which I'm pretty sure means it could be IB reversaled unless they mess with some other stuff to make 3C less stupid in a block string.

I would also like to like to 4th or 5th the nomination for Spark. Reliable contribution wise to dustloop and his local community. I really owe a lot to him and I don't live in seattle or play hakumen. Also he's kinda a badass. Does really well pretty consistently. Won Evo single, and was on the team that won teams. So yeah, all around he's just the awesome player we should all aspire to being in pretty much every way that counts. Really he needs at least 2 awards for all his contributions and competitive achievements. Totally not exaggerating.

But they are like 18 cents cheaper than regular chicken nuggets. Also 2 people took a picture of me in the morning and I've yet to see a single one, what's up with that?

This is very interesting and confusing. However there is one case of delay that is indesputable. My friend on his 360 and I both wanted to play Valk when he came out and he's looking at about 311 million frames of delay.

He had 100 meter and that if you XYH you guard point and he can RC to put you at disadvantage. Even if he infernodividered twice, or clashed and let it go through, off a reversal ID or one done on reaction to the super flash. Also if he mashes ID 1 or 2ish frames faster than you, he hits you out of the XYH start up but that's just a funny little note. Also funny is that our options are so limited in this situation that it is totally plausible for an opponent to be prepared for it and win on reaction. This is part of the reason we don't GF Ragna. EDIT: by maximum range of ways to screw you I mean he has a lot of options out of gadget and if you don't yomi the right one you die, not that he had a million ways to beat magnatech wheel. He really has 2 (not counting block and mash dp for RC into pressure at worst) reversal dp or move/block/jump then DP on reaction. He can rc it even if he does 2 dps on reaction to the flash while jumping away from you.

Good, that makes it look like I won.

5A after gadget would have whiffed and recovered in time to block, but really you shouldn't be gadget fingering a full meter ragna with burst while you're dying. He has like the maximum range of ways to screw you in that situation. You'd have to really yomi exactly what he's going to do, because astral isn't the only way for him to ruin your MTW on reaction.

Well...yes. Gosh, if only there was and easy and safe way to get it. It's by far my best ps3 controller. I don't have any other ideas though.

Uh, just checked my pocket and my ps3 controller was very not there. Does this ps3 controller perhaps have a small sort of indention or warping of plastic near the parts that light up to tell you which player you are? If so it is definitely mine. Well damn.