brett_

@Akai: In case you didn't read what I said, I agree that using derivation makes sense English-wise, but people need to accept that the rest of the gaming universe doesn't use the word when follow-up is already a widely used term. And speaking of English-wise, you're confusing the noun follow-up with the verb, 'to follow up'. a 'follow-up attack' is not the same as 'following up an attack' - A 'follow-up' is basically a cancel route, just like the way you're describing the usage of the word 'derivation'. GP03 has a Ranged Follow-up from his 5BB string. You can literally replace the word 'derivation' with 'follow-up' and not worry about anything. If you're not familiar with fighting games, trust me when I say your description of 'follow-up' is not the noun usage as we're discussing. A concrete example: Vega's Wall Jump, Akuma's Demon Flip, Jam's 236S, these are all moves which are described as having various "follow-ups" - they are core moves that you then input various inputs afterwards to get different branching options, identical to what you're trying to describe. So you'd say "Jam's 236S has five follow-ups: P, K, S, D, and H. Her H follow-up is extremely good for baiting air tech's. 236S~K, on the other hand, is mainly used as a combo option"

Follow-up. Please. If you use origination you're perpetuating the idea that it's okay for people without common sense to dictate terminology. Derivation is at least a better word in terms of English usage, but I don't see why we'd use it when there are plenty of game genres that use 'follow-up' already. I'm really baffled as to why this isn't making sense to anyone. Practically every single game that has a concept of a followup / origination / derivation is referred to as a followup. Using anything else honestly makes us look like we're just relying on google-translate. I explained this a few posts ago but to give you an honest history lesson, the reason why origination is traditionally used in Gundam Versus notation is because the original people who wrote information for the games directly translated the word without a clue. ==== Quanta: BD Melee(3hit) >> BD Melee(2hit) I agree it is more tedious to type, but I also believe it is the most legible and clear as a result (easy on the eyes, immediately recognizable) Because it doesn't explicitly write out the extra B's, it does not explain that you need to input them to get those following hits, which I recognize is a bad thing. (Though to be fair, Gyan's BD melee in the opposite notation style would be BD8BBBBBBBBBBBBBBB lol) I do, however, feel that cc8b and BD8B also have problems, so it's really a discussion about which problems are the most tolerable. While I'm heavily opinionated on the usage of follow-up vs origination/derivation (due to the implications), I'm not really as invested in the discussion regarding the abbreviations of boost dash melee - I'm pretty okay with switching to BD8B and not unwilling to move from my personal usage of BD Melee. I'll re-list the points I've made before regarding my opinion on each (the things I view as disadvantages): cc8b / BD8B: - the 8B in it makes it look like it's referring to the actual 8B in some way, rather than a unique move. - as a result of the above, isn't really as legible in the context of a combo: BD8BBBB > AC~A >> Super - is just really hard to read. - written in lower case, so unless everything else is written in lower case, just looks out of place entirely. cc8b only: - the only time cc is every used to represent BD'ing. We don't say 'cc cancel' or 'cc~c'. BD8B only: - not often used verbally (to my knowledge), whereas cc8b and BD Melee are. BD Melee: - longer to write out - must be followed with (Xhit) to denote how many hits, rather than extended 'B's, The problem with always using > is that there's no real reason NOT to specify which way to connect each combo part. There are actually plenty of combos that involve boost dash cancelling melee moves due to positioning. Also I don't see any real reason not to differentiate cancel routes from followups. they're different things. Using 'nbb' implies the desire to be closer to the Japanese notation format, but the Japanese notation format logically differentiates >>, >, →/->, and ~ (派生), whereas what you're trying to illustrate does not. If anything it just seems lazy. I think it's fine for chatting with friends but the current subject is on what ultimately should be the standardized format for all future notations, and what hopefully responsible people will use when writing their wiki pages, which will be what most new players will be referencing, and thus the future majority of the community. One who supports improper or straight up objectively inferior notation is simply perpetuating the very mistakes that are making this discussion necessary in the first place.

This is actually EXACTLY my point. Before EXVS no one actually knew anything about Japanese terminology and went ahead and used very awful literal translations that became the staple of English terms we use. Origination is a perfect example, originating from 派生. Anyone who plays fighting games would realize that this is just "followup", but instead a silly word was constantly used and many NEXT-era people still use it simply because it's always been used even though it's hysterically dumb. We may do that at some point, yes. Honestly though even if we do come up with some notation list in the future, I don't think anyone is going to be able to go back and literally re-edit and fix all the notation errors in any one person's, page, nor do I expect everyone to actually follow that notation convention anyways. I have my own opinions, which I will state here, but I don't think anyone has to follow it, it's personally just what I think looks professional vs what looks ugly: Main, BR, Sub, BZ, AC, BC, AB, etc 5B, 6B, 8B, 2B, BD Melee Example Combo: CSa → Sub >> 5B8B(3hit)~A > 8B~BC I realize that I actually didn't edit any of the first wiki page that I used as an example and that may have actually contributed to people leaning towards a certain style of notation. If people actually want to try and settle on one particular format, I don't mind, but it feels like it's mainly preference. For example, many people like writing melees in lower case (6b), and in casual messaging I also tend to lower case, but I generally prefer uppercasing everything if possible simply out of habit because if you go back to Guilty Gear (or other ASW games) notation, you'll notice combos look extremely ugly when written like: 5k > f.s > 6h > kj frc > j.pksd > ensenga similarly writing Turn-A's combo as a >> a → ab looks really gross to me. I personally prefer BD Melee over BD8B because in actual speech, we say BD Melee most of the time in my local scene, and for the reasons I mentioned in my previous post. BDb makes it look like the "b" part of it is minor, and emphasizes the BD portion of the term, which is weird. Apparently if you don't die on the first shot, you won't actually die in burst from the super so it has some uses to prevent dying while in awakening.

I've actually never seen BD B. I generally say BD Melee due to BD格 or ブー格. cc8b simply bothers me personally because its always written in lower case and I prefer upper case for proper notation, just looks more professional. I also think using cc to represent a boost dash just bothers me because you never see it used that way anywhere else in exvs notation aside from for the BD Melee. Lastly I just want to get as far away from pre-EXVS notation, because its generally awful (4/6b, origination, etc). Though I'm more okay with BD8B than cc8b, it still looks like something that technically could be an actual 8B - there's nothing in that name that really implies its actually its own separate move, unlike BD Melee. Did I mention origination?

I think most people who were watching when I announced this tournament on stream know about this already, but I forgot to officially mention that after the 2on2 is over, we'll be doing a Large Team exhibition (kohakusen / red vs white), with NO MAX LIMIT, so it will probably end up being something silly like a 20v20, with the team captains being the winning team players (or whoever is the highest placing team interested in playing). They'll simply be picking back and forth from anyone who's present in chat when we start, so if you're interested in the post-tourney large team exhibition, just be around when the 2on2 ends! I updated the first post to also include this info as well. Also thanks for all the support thus far, looking forward to it. On a side note, I'm now a VIP member of the XSplit team, and they've actually mentioned that they want to promote the event, so that may also happen (just small stuff like RT'ing my tweets or putting it as an announcement on the xsplit free ad spot)

It's okay - i've been a bit too busy to be focusing on this too, but i should get around to having the WIP / Completed / Untouched suits list soon

If you want to include video footage of that suit in the wiki page, you can go for it for now, don't see why not. "However, the tracking on the bullets themselves isn't that good - enough that if they're free falling from a low altitude, it may or may not punish the landing." 取る here refers to 着地を取る aka landing punishes. ガンガン most likely refers to Gundam VS Gundam. セルフカットで出しても - even if you summon it as a self-cut / even if you use it with self-cut timing / etc 明後日の方向を射撃する - fire in a completely unrelated direction

This is a Burst Cancel lol. I'm actually hella amazed you did this by accident, since usually it's 1 frame timing XD. The idea is that if you activate on the frame during certain moves, it affects your momentum based on your previous move. It's the same cancel that lets you fly across the screen using Impulse's BC, or fly sideways during Zero's Sub. Some of them like the mode change plummet you I guess. I've heard of one's that plummet but I've never seen it before till now lol.

I'm not quite sure as to the legitimacy of KiraYamatoSF's claim that 3K/1.5k is better than 3K/2K - at the recent Sportsland tournament held yesterday (Biggest tournament series in Japan), there were no 3k/1.5k teams, whereas I definitely saw some 3K/2K teams (I'm checking the actual team roster here, not just videos). On a side note, the dominant comp was 3K/2.5K :P. I asked Ogu if he could clarify why many jp players consider 2K better with a 3K, and he said the following (translated): And from a later comment:

You're more than welcome to skype me: unlimitedbrettworks

Who actually runs Team aBc? It would be nice to have a dustloop link on there, for the sake of consolidating the community.

@burger: the jp says it does defend against certain non-projectile attacks like boomerangs, certain melee assists, and fangs, but if the hitbox on those attacks still lingers beyond the i-field active frames you can get hit. I'm also thinking about making a list of suits that have been worked on and ones that haven't been touched so if people want to work on things they know where to go.

Mermaid Gundam summon is Full Boost only

Been messing around with this suit a ton recently, thought I'd post some random addons too: - MA AC retracts like a homing dash, and it can be cancelled into MA BZ, so it's useful to do something like MA AC (1) → MA BZ (sub) if you're ma'ing and want to correct your face. You can even re-MA AC after you've sent a BZ or two and then do more BZ's till you run out. - if the opponent is coming in for melee at you on your right, facing the numpad 1 (diagonal left-back) will make it easiest for the CSa to hit them (you're aiming to hit them with the unicorn portion, the beam MGs). Similarly, if they're coming from the left, pointing at 3 is best. CSa always spins counter-clockwise, so due to this nature it's *slightly* easier to hit people if you're facing the left direction (according to some JP player sources) - BC~BC (MA shortcut into emergency transform) is extremely boost efficient, giving you a decent vertical accent for the boost spent, though it does not carry you far. The mild lateral distance gained, however, can actually be useful in minimal adjustments without committing to BDs. Also in green lock or when target switching, BC in general is pretty useful for running away if you are looking at the minimap properly. - 2B does not move you anywhere, making it extremely useful as a melee > amekyan string when you're trying to run away. You can also rainbowstep cancel it slightly earlier than his other melees. It's especially useful to rainbowstep backwards off of it then amekyan. The difference between using 2B and 4/6B in these situations is extremely noticeable. Random "Brett Special" stuff (Note: The notation in this section will be really weird because individual inputs often need to be noted): When exiting MA, even as close to the ground as possible, you can cancel the exit into jump, boostdash, and sidestep, but nothing else. Boostdashing and Sidestepping require timing to get before touching the ground. With a jump, you can just hold C. To time an MA un-transform into sidestep, I suggest holding down the second step input - it seems to help preserve the input, and as a result you can even input the 66 before it has started untransforming. It seems consistent to input it right as the untransform is about to happen. If you've cancelled into any of these actions, you can then perform any action, however. As a result, a few really tricky evasive options you can try out: Low MA x n → untransform → Sidestep, Amekyan - Only works if on angle or without ammo. Extremely strong, basic defensive option from MA Sidestep / Jump → 2B/6B > Amekyan - What you'll want to use most of the time when running away. Works at every angle, but slightly slower, and slightly more vulnerable. If using jump, will not cut guidance until after the melee. It's also better to use 4/6B if you're not preceeding with a step, to help avoid beams slightly before the amekyan. 4/6B is also better for pursuing in this fashion, as well as turning an evasive run-away MA into a sudden attack. Also costs more boost. You'll overheat if you do this option from Boost Hop, then three MA in-and-out transforms. Sidestep → Shield → Amekyan - Final Form. Combining the shield-amekyan technique with MA untransform cancelling. since there is no melee to step out of here, it's highly recommend to use a sidestep, but jump is an option if you are off angle and low on boost. The actual inputs: Untransform → 66 → 2C → 8 → 3/6/9C → AC → A. If performed right, it should look like you MA facing away from the opponent, then untransform and step into an on-angle amekyan. Some examples: - Boost hop BR x 2, fuwastep, MA transform/untransform, jump~6B > Amekyan. Ends in overheat. Pretty standard usage - useful if you find yourself being chased unexpectedly - Boost hop BR x 2 >> BR x 2 → BC → (swerve) → natural untransform → step Amekyan. Ends ~10% boost. Very aggressive. - boost dash BR x 2, hop, falling MA transform/untransform x 3 → Jump Melee Step / Step (Shield) Amekyan - overheat if you use all 3 transforms. - Boost hop, step Amekyan, fuwastep, MA transform/untransform → Step Amekyan - overheat. uses both assist stocks. useful if you think your first amekyan will be punished / read, buys you time to throw in another amekyan.

Update: -Fixed the Transam 5B(3hit) > Suicide combo a bit (thanks Hiro for pointing this out). The old combo does work I believe but its either character or height specific / extremely strict timing.

It's 1000 yen. I haven't actually bought one so I can't help you find it, but someone else probably can if you're still having trouble. Try checking the related items to the EXVSFB game.

I hear that 3k / 1.5k is considered weak by Japanese players because the health difference between that and 3k / 2k isn't very much so you might as well play 2k to have a stronger front presence.

Well first of all, the actual wiki page URLs should use their official (ish) names. I was originally thinking of having the cosmetic link names be different depending on the suit so its easier to see, i.e. Exia, Dynames, Throne Drei, as right now its kinda hard to scroll through the list when theres Gundam A Gundam B Gundam C. Again, not talking about actual link URLs, just the displayed text for the link aka Gundam Double X should always be http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=Gundam_Double_X_(EXVSFB) It's not a big deal, but what are people's thoughts?

I'm kind of confused why we're still making these rather than wiki pages

Unfortunately I actually have to postpone this Sunday's Second Impact for the following weekend, sorry. Again, the next Second Impact has been moved to Sunday, May 4th. I am also considering moving the day so I have more open Sundays, so if people have a preference on the day, let me know.

thanks - looks great 1) Keep them on one page. It's up to you how to organize it though. It might be kind of gross but I don't think we really need two seperate pages for destroy and normal mode. Besides, if we feel like we DO, its not that hard to make a seperate page 2) generally people have just been writing BC AC etc, which I think its okay. I also agree with lark that its better to use the +, but due to how gundam notation works, its rarely an issue since the only time you really have multiple buttons written in succession is something like 5BBA for a melee combo. Even then, I generally prefer to write it as 5BB~A to denote the A followup. I also like using A over BR by itself because it just looks nicer. I also prefer capitalizing things when able. I also recommend for followups to use ~ rather than the direct cancel symbol (-> or →). 3) We don't HAVE to transpose anything, but more information is better. What's more important is that people should make sure to actually say something if they're going to include personal notes. I suggest translating if you can help it, and then if you want to add personal notes, do that in the individual move sections so we can review and approve them. If you hvae an issue translating something, simply ask it either here or in the q/a section

Updated the OP with information about our upcoming event:

Yeah it's fine, I just couldn't tell if some of this information you wrote was incorrectly translated or your opinion.

Team Page > Members > add a new member Note also that the current bracket is not set in stone and hasn't been seeded yet.

Hey guys, Shtkn has given us the OK to add Gundam to the dustloop wiki . I've gone ahead and transfered most of the DX data over to show you guys as a template: http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=Gundam_Double_X_(EXVSFB) To contribute, check the code from the DX page and use it as a template. To create a page, go to http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=Mobile_Suit_Name_(EXVSFB) and edit it. Please report here when you've done so so we can keep track of what's going on. At a certain point we'll have a navigation sidebar etc linking all of them together and categorizing them under costs, etc. We'll also have mechanics and system pages up at some point in time.