Darlos9D

Man its weird. Outside of throws Tager doesn't go much past 3k very often... but at the same time he can get that kind of damage off of 5A's and shit. Hell, that might be a better thing overall. EDIT: Okay, what happened at 9:31 REALLY interested me. Tager spark bolted Platinum and she bursted right after bouncing off the wall, at the same time as Tager starting up an AC. The AC started to drag her towards him after the burst, but didn't last long enough to actually catch her. BUT she ended up landing right next to Tager and he just got her with 360B. Now correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure that 360 was completely inescapable in that situation, since she just landed after doing a burst. Of course now that I think about it, this is probably a situation that could have just as easily happened in CS2 or earlier. But due to the fact that spark on normal hit now only wall bounces weakly, we're now probably going to be following up spark with AC a lot more often, so this situation might happen more frequently. Of course they can also just wait till they're closer to burst and actually hit us with it I guess. I dunno. I'm not sure how much in our favor that situation actually is overall.

Wow, that's a first for me, lol.

Well since it's not an attack with active attack frames, it doesn't list the frame data like that. The "extra notes" section says the autoguard starts on frame 6 though. So it has a startup of 5.

Wow I sure wish people would stop parroting this and respond to one of the other things I'm saying.

Ah, I was misunderstanding where the "start" of MTW was. My bad. I thought I'd post some of Osuna's thoughts from Skype, on that point in the video, since they were more insightful than mine: "(says something about MTW guard point hitstop only affecting the opponent) Which is a definite change. Also the fact that the IBed 3C wasn't punished by 5B intrigues me. Not only wasn't it punished but MTW got all the way past the super flash before it hit. That implies a lot of changed values." Tager does feel a bit safer on block overall, I do have to say. Such as on Sledge A, 2D, and now 3C as Osuna points out.

Yeah I've noticed that people have been RCing after hitting MTW's guardpoint and then getting hit anyway. Are they just fucking up or is RCing against that now worthless? Because if that's the case that'll make me a happy camper. I was always kinda bitter about how MTW wasn't really a solid reversal. EDIT: I've had explained to me that hitting MTW's guardpoint and rapiding only saves you if you hit the guardpoint during MTW's startup frames. I've seen RCing against it fail so much in CSX matches, though, that I can't help but wonder if something changed regarding MTW's startup, or the "guard point stun" itself. I guess we'll just have to wait until somebody over in Japan figures it all out. I'll go back and look at some videos, though. EDIT AGAIN: Phew, finally. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=05ARkdQZBAE#t=12m54s Here we see Ragna's 5B hitting MTW's guardpoint pretty early on. the 5B was coming out before MTW even started up. Ragna RC'd and still got hit, even though it was early in the MTW. Here's hoping RCs really are worthless against MTW now! Either that or this Ragna's timing was just too late. But even then that makes it seem like the window to RC and block successfully is pretty damn small anyway.

How much though? Brice said 5 frames, and I just wanted to confirm. Also does it really delay rapid cancel? EDIT: Okay I think I'm confusing "hitstop" with "extra opponent recovery." But still I'd like to know the answer, so I can peruse frame data and do some theoryfighting.

You know... Voltic charge's autoguard starts at frame 6. If we compare that to the startup frames of the rest of his moves, that makes it his fastest "starting" non-throw. If we compare it to the defensive frame data of his other moves, it beats both 2C and AC in regards to anti-air frames startup, and beats 6A in regards to super armor startup, so once again its his "quickest in defense" non-throw. Now that we can cancel it onto Hammer AND 720 on guardpoint, I almost wonder if voltic might be useful as some kind of anti-air, since they can't really hit you low or throw you from the air. Of course they have to actually hit us for the guard point to make everything else work... I think. Plus I'm not sure about the "5 frame freeze" Brice mentions, especially regarding its effects on rapid cancel. Is that true? If not it might not be worth it if its too easy for the opponent to escape the followups.

If Makoto hit Tager during Voltic, I can't for the life of me see it. It looks to me like he did 720 without having to guard point anything at all. Unless her downward punch thing hit the guard point. In which case holy shit that 720 came out INSTANTLY upon her touching him. Fun times.

AC > 4D > 3C > AC whiff > stuff I... what? We're not just doing science anymore. We're doing WEIRD science.

^^This Give us a "reverse hammer fall" of sorts and maybe Tager's lack of mobility won't be such a damn issue anymore. Sure they have to be magnetized, but getting a greater advantage on magnetized opponents is kinda supposed to be his whole deal anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIJWZRPX-O8&feature=player_detailpage#t=24m11s Dat. Blockstring.

Hrm. I saw that B Sledge is awful for combos. Apparently the same isn't true of A Sledge?

Rapiding a dead angle Like a boss

Yeah, I guess charge 720s and gadget flinger would make everybody's game better. I need to figure out flinger, its just too stupid not to.

Oh? Do tell. I was the one originally asking about such things.

Often times since I'd be holding back to block or backdash, I'd roll forward from 4 (assuming I'm on the left) into the 360. I REALLY need to stop doing that because it has a tendency to get me a sledge instead. Rolling backward from 6 is probably the safest bet in most cases. Oh I see, you don't hit D until you've spun WAY beyond the 214 necessary for voltic charge, but still soon enough to cancel the jump. I was hitting D right after the 214 part, and could never get it to work.

Only in Australia.

Honestly I've been wanting to go the "random RCs everywhere" route myself, just because it seems like some wacky fun. I really need to get my PS3 set up... Well, work on your combos, and how to react properly to get combos. There were quite a few times where you would get somebody into the air and hit them with 5C, and then follow it with 5D. What you really should do is follow a 5C that hits somebody in the air with an atomic collider, and then do the usual stuff from there (sledge B, gadget if they're not magnetized, AC pull into relaunch into another AC if they are). Also, your pressure and traps could use some work. For instance, in that second video, you'd often have Makoto block a 5D, and then pretty much ever single time she'd jump afterward. You need to try and pick up on that and start ACing after the 5D. Then when she gets scared to jump after the 5D, do other things. Though really you probably shouldn't be using blockstrings that go into 5D at all against her, since as you saw later in the fight she can easily counter it. Find some other things to do after the 5C in your blockstring. Some other people here could probably give you more detailed advice on that front.

Can a man not appreciate variety in the female form? [/slightlycreepy]

Maybe he died at Ikaruga, then got wrecked again by the NOL when he got Nirvana. I mean, if she can bring him back once, she can do it again. Also: - Tager gets tentacled (and of course it is off screen) and Kokonoe is like AW HELL NAW! *Goes Super Saiyan except blue and one shots the beast* Welp, that puts to rest any notion that she WON'T be a playable character in the future.

It rends the soul, man.

Hey guys, here's a random question: what should Tager do off of a counter hit Hammer (sledge's followup)? I always just do 6C into AC since it's just easy, but I feel like maybe that's not the most efficient approach. Obviously since you can tag people with Hammer from an alarming variety of ranges, what you do is probably going to depend on how close to you they wind up after you CH them. I'm not sure what to think beyond that though, and was hoping you combosmiths might have some ideas. Unless it's already been discussed and I'm just not seeing it.

Actually, though I use 6C to follow it up since it's just easy, wouldn't there be something better to follow up with? I guess it depends on how close they are to you when you CH them with hammer. The combo thread doesn't seem to talk about this. Perhaps I should bring it up.

Oh man, gotta love sledge followup's weirdass frames. Too bad this guy doesn't seem to know how to combo off of it. Pretty scrubby, but fun to watch.