Eshi

In tournaments where sets are determined by 2/3 or 3/5 wins, yeah, 7-3 or 8-2 are practically impossible to win. Kokonoe is a popular character and easily half the cast have a really bad match-up against her. Arguments that don't accept this premise are wrong - BBCP with and without Kokonoe are completely different games. Can we please accept this? It's fine if you want to allow Kokonoe, but let's not be naive. Banning a character simply to draw in more of a crowd? ST Akuma. He was not banned until Damdai asked the community to ban him, appealing to the fact that he fundamentally changes the game in a way that makes many characters unusable. Low tier waifu? yeah characters like Rachel or sooo low tier waifu love! Casuals don't matter? enjoy your 10 man majors. People of all skill levels populate tournament brackets, not just LK.

I spent a considerable amount of time learning Amane, who previously had no unwinnable match-ups and was tournament viable. The Kokonoe match-up is practically unwinnable and Amane is no longer viable. I'm already picking up Kokonoe in case she doesn't get banned and I am /far/ from the only player doing it. Why does only the effort of Kokonoe players matter and mine does not? I've mained a new character literally every new iteration, it's not a big deal. Many characters change vastly in every iteration (Litchi, Noel) while others barely change at all (Ragna). A lot of knowledge transfers between games regardless of one's chosen character. This reasoning is incredibly flimsy. There are plenty of people that have or will quit because they can't take the game seriously with Kokonoe allowed. There are plenty of people who have switched characters and adapted. I hardly see this as support for or against a ban. Because A) The specials you've listed could easily be executed by mistake (EX: combo with jC > j2C fastfall > 2B and sometimes I input 22B instead) B) The most commonly use example, banning Black Hole, would only barely reduce her power (infinite block strings, extremely powerful setplay, Gravitons and Activate alone skewing certain match-ups) C) The fighting game community has a huge stigma against limiting certain aspects of play as if the players were the game's designer. The only exception to this has always been SSB which has a completely different approach. Regardless, the FGC would reject it far more than a ban.

True, but I wouldn't classify her as specifically any type of playstyle - she's great at everything. Everyone I've seen that uses Kokonoe plays her very differently.

Fireball + Graviton, 22b, 6D > Activate, and she can counter-zone even Nu-13 by nullifying projectiles with 5C. So yeah, Kokonoe can zone.

it's practical if you played like damosu and mind charge all your health away ASAP. Super high risk with super high reward? I wonder how big of a mindset shift is required to play her well.

it's practical if you played like damosu and mind charge all your health away ASAP, but yeah, high risk. I wonder how big of a mindset shift is required to play her well.

So the thing I posted about Hazama where A Zettou goes over his 5D? Also goes over Nu's 5D. There's a lot more to say but the zoning vs. zoning game is pretty similar between these characters.

I was totally sleeping on those new match videos, finally someone shows us what Liz is capable of! vs. Kanji Damosu instantly used mind charge once he had 50 meter basically every match. Her damage is a lot lower but her options are A LOT stronger than before. Definitely still an honest character considering the stuff that Yu/Mitsuru/Chie get access to without manually putting themselves in awakening, but still, I'm excited about this character again. but awakened Garudyne is huge. HUGE! I liked the part where Damosu was playing against yosuke and was like, NOPE, and scooped him up with garu for pressing buttons.

Nicovideo combo movie with Mahamaon instant kills! http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm22733002

yeah... no. Not even close to true, in either Japan or the US.

People are fixating too hard on specific block strings. No, they are not true infinites. Characters with reversal can escape on IB at certain points. Certain points in the string can be counter assaulted out of with 100% reliability. Y'all need to look at the bigger picture though. Kokonoe has one of the best revolver action tables in the game, all she has to do is vary/stagger her strings and people who try to IB every attack will get hit. Or she can just set up into meterless instant overhead/low/throw/teleport cross-up. The whole infinite block string thing is somewhat overblown but it's the straw that broke the camel's back. Specific aspects of her gameplay are not the problem, her incomparable versatility is the problem.

Yes, I really REALLY wish people would stop doing this. People keep comparing Kokonoe to CT Rachel or Nu or whatever and saying they're just as good. There were 12 characters in BBCT and Arakune/Nu/Carl all had ridiculously broken stuff, lower characters still had ridiculous stuff that kept them able to compete. We're not talking about BBCT. We're talking about BBCP. There are over twice as many characters in this game and none of them go even with Kokonoe, not even other top tiers like Valk and Tao. Many characters just get completely destroyed. Evaluate Koko in the context of this game, not BBCT/BBCS. I agree, I hated how everyone jumped down Setsuna's throat every time he dropped a combo when he just plays characters he likes, like Labrys.

I had no idea Amane could get so much off of 5C air hit, I almost can't believe it. I thought the air tech prorated like hell!

It only took my two months to realize what you were talking about LOL I just learned something excellent about this match-up: grounded 236A goes over Hazama's 5D chain. This player intentionally does it multiple times in this match, observe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMawt-6YEtE#t=1h09m28s

Kokonoe is the best character to ever exist in Blazblue. Just because she requires more knowledge and effort than spamming curse on block or j2C guard break doesn't change that. She would shit on them with drive and setplay if they were in the same game, just like she does now. The only character that comes close in power is CS Valkenhyn, who also should have been banned but the game was mostly over by then.

This doesn't get more true the more times you repeat it. She can be dealt with using a handful of characters, most of whom are still at disadvantage, and the rest of them are screwed. Dealing with Kokonoe starts at the character select screen - just look at Tsujikawa vs. N-O. The other top tiers are strong but none of them have even close to this pervasive of an impact on the game. It is not too early to talk about banning her.

I actually really love SSBM but it's a very different game. I would compare it to SSBB and Metaknight. Metaknight was obviously fucking stupid but people were like, nah let it go on and see how tournament results go before banning, then metaknight won 60%+ of tournaments as expected but his presence was so engrained that he was never banned anyway. Either Kokonoe is banned soon or not at all, there really is no in-between. Decide which game y'all would rather play!

If your opinion on Kokonoe does not accept the premise that Kokonoe is elder god tier, that only 5 characters can compete with her and none are even. You need to stop typing and play a good Kokonoe. Stop downplaying her and stop saying "learn the match-up" unless what you actually mean is "switch to one of the 5 characters that's still viable against her". This has already been discussed and established by players better than 99% of america. The only talking point should be if people want to play a game with elder god tier Kokonoe, or without her. Either has understandable reasons but I prefer without her. I don't want to play a 6 character game (I'm learning Azrael so I will if I have to).

As absurd is Black Hole is, it's one of the least broken things about Kokonoe. She can't do it every match because it requires corner and 50 meter. The fact that she is better than every other character at any one aspect of gameplay is why she is broken. America being worse than Japan is irrelevant, Japanese players hate her too. I understand arguments about allowing dlc characters in the console generation and "arbitrary" bans setting a bad precedent and whatever, but honestly, I don't care. BBCP without Kokonoe is a good game. BBCP with Kokonoe is not. Everyone knows it. Maybe that means she only warrants a soft ban like GG macros or O.Sagat, which would be okay I suppose.

Corner throw > 236DD > OD > 6A > 623C > 5B > 5D > 632146C > dash under them > 623C does about 4.7k, completely unburstable and even works at 100% health.

Well, yeah, that's why the text is there =P If you're on facebook then you should request to join our group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/343167709045450/

Some of those combos are extremely useful and I can't wait to start using them! Amane definitely feels like the kind of character that has a million different hit confirms and a strong player has to know all of them, it's not optional.

Hariken is also extremely useful against his super jump approach. If he does it predictably and you're spaced safely (aka not in his jB/jC range), you can lay A/B Hariken as he's coming down and he'll get stuck in the air. If he jumped into B Hariken, you get a free Gekiren unblockable. If you have 50 meter, you get a free 4.8k combo!

well that was depressing

I'm really sorry to all the GG people that had to watch my total shit Justice, I stopped playing GG the moment BBCP came out and forgot everything I learned. I'll try to be competent next time I see y'all! All of the OG GG players are amazing people and I'm thankful to have met all of you. St1ckbug: you put in so much work for us. You are amazing, simple as that. Jais: Where do you shop for clothes? PLEASE TELL ME, your fashion sense is fucking amazing. We must do karaoke again! Brice: You are so mature for your age, it blows my mind. Thanks for sharing spectacular beer and helping me understand the Tager match-up. Kaeru: Great to see you again, say hi to Isabella for me! Rest of Montreal: I am going to make UMAD this time. I promise. Y'all are too fantastic of people and missing this is not an option. Lich: Your Relius is so strong and you are my new favorite person fyi (●⌒∇⌒●) huge thanks for your help on friday night Cirno: GGs in tourney, I couldn't even be disappointed about losing first round. Axis: We didn't get a lot of time but I took everything you said seriously and am reevaluating how I approach fighting games. Thanks for the advice! Lord Knight: Of all the players in our community, I respect you the most. I learn so much every time we play. As for everyone else I know, it was great to see all of you again of course! Can't wait for the next major. My Amane might actually be good by then.