Moy_X7

I meant to use 5C after blocking 4D, of course we don't wanna do anything during 4D, maybe a jab but that's about it lol. I hear that about the training mode, I'll see if I can get one of the fellow Jins to try it out.

The moment the opponent is sent flying by the final hit of CDT.

Disregard that "this post was edited by Moi_X7" in your message. I derped and accidentally clicked on the edit button instead of the quote button lol. I'm just glad you need meter to get that kind of damage out of it now. There's not much that can be done after a 2C, we could try frame trapping again with 2C > 6C but that gets beat by IB 5A, 2C > 236A gets beat by 5A and Drives, 2C > 6B is pretty much outta the question since the gap between 2C and 6B is huge. If we're going that far and we know you're going to push buttons, then we can always take the risk of doing a ghetto frame trap with DP D if we have the meter or if your back is facing the wall to make it worth the risk. Jin has a lot of options after 5C, he can try to frame trap again with 5C > 6C (gets beat by IB 5A) or 5C > 2C (doesn't get beat by IB 5A), jump cancel to reset pressure and bait Drives, TK j.236C to bait 5A and 4D, or reset pressure with 6B if we've conditioned you into not pressing buttons. Of course there's an answer to those options just like there's an answer to your answers but at that point it depends on the Jin and the Noel and how far they've conditioned each other. As for our 2D to reset pressure, yeah I mentioned that above but at that point it's the same answers to your answers yadda yadda. Jin pressure isn't too scary since all he can do to you is get you to block unless he has meter. Could you test those frame traps in CSX? I set up the dummy to do these frame traps against Noel, and I, as Noel use 4D between the gaps and I always seem to get counter hit. That shit is weird since 4D has frame 1 invul so it might be one of those training mode glitches in CSII. Gotta make sure, so try it out for me when you get the chance, will ya? It's not easy frame trapping characters with reversals (specially Hakumen and Noel) but just now that we have answers to your answers. Speaking on that, could you tell me the holes in the Drive series? I know that we can grab you after 2D and there's not much you can do about it, you can 4D but it's too slow and it won't be able to punish the throw attempt, you can also use Spring Raid but that one is way unsafe on block. If you do 4D then I guess we can try to use 5C but that won't work if you use 2D afterwards. lol fucking Noel XD

I guess it depends, I'm just now starting to work on ways to deal with the opponent after a throw tech. Usually when I get thrown and I react to the throw by teching, I'm in a state of slight confusion and I'm not in a position where I can respond offensively. My response in this situation is to just back off by jumping back, an automatic response that I need to get rid off. However, if I feel like the opponent is going to tech my throw then I have my next action already prepared that depends on the opponent. One example would be my Platinum against a Ragna. He techs my throw and since I had a feeling that he would tech it, I have my next action prepared, that which is dashing 5A. That thing will beat most of Ragna's stuff at that range. If I see that he's just jumping back then I IAD > throw next time as soon as I see him hit the air. Point being, if you're the one who wants to throw then instead of reacting to the tech throw, have your next action already in mind. The moment he breaks the throw, is the moment you're ready to continue with your assault. If he doesn't tech throw then you have plenty of time to hit-confirm the throw. If you're the one being thrown then it's best to be on the defensive, that is unless you can react to the tech throw and be mentally prepared to use whatever on reaction.

Fixed Shin's post. I did mention the risk that comes with 3C. You're right, no Noel is going to throw that out randomly during neutral and if they do, most likely only if they have the meter to RC it (just added the RC part). Still, it's an option, a high risk high reward one at that. If Noel gets a good read on Jin and low profiles under one of his ground normals then you know that shit hurts lol. Shin and I mentioned it because it really is a move that Jins need to be aware of, specially since knowing that not all Noels play by the book and some will do some random ass shit. I speak from personal experience when I say this, I've had random ass Noels just throw 3C at a perfect time when it just so happens that I want to poke her with 5C or start my pressure with 2A, that's almost 4K mid-screen just because that Noel decided to be random (in CSII at least lol). Like you said, I wouldn't recommend that as a reversal (where did you read this? I'll fix it if you let me know) since it takes a bit of time for the move to actually low profile under stuff and if it's not timed correctly then she gets hit during the start-up before the move gets to the low profiling part. I wouldn't worry about 5A too much as a "reversal", 2C frame traps beat both your 2D and your 5A if the move prior to 2C doesn't get IB'd. 2A > 5C and 2B > delayed 5C are air tight frame traps, nothing in your arsenal (except for Fenrir lulz) can beat these even on IB. The only times that 5A mash might work in your favor is if the Jin decides to reset pressure after his 5B, with a dashing 2A, or if Jin is going for the 5B > 6A gatling but then that will only work ONCE for you, no Jin worth their salt is going to let you mash on him like that more than once. The only times when I'd worry about Noel mashing Drives is if I'm doing long range pressure like 5C > 6B/2D but at that range your 5A is out of the question. Personally speaking, if my opponent mashes either 2A or 5A during my pressure then I feel like they're basically spitting on my face. I feel like that's the highest form of disrespect out there. Still, it is an option and I'll add it to Shin's post along with the various ways as how we can deal like that. Jins also have to worry about Drives when going for the 5B > 6A and 5C > 2D gatlings, 6B and 2D to reset pressure, as well as when poking. There's an answer to most of these that work in Jin's favor but he's pretty much forced to bait and block the rest. Your 4D is still some scary shit in this game, 2D is a joke though. The only reason why 2D was even remotely a threat in CSII was because of the stupid damage you can get off of it. Thanks for the feedback though, I'll make sure to add some additional stuff to Shin's post.

Thanks, I'll keep on doing what I can to make the Jin boards a more informative and organized place. Just be sure to contribute to the match-up threads as well if possible since I doubt that I can cover everything on my own and that goes for all of you lol.

*Ragna mirror, random Carnage Scissors and Inferno Dividers* -___________-

She looks like a solid B-tier character from what I've seen, B+ might be pushing it though. Edit: Bwahaha, didn't think that throw > Astral would work.

Fuck it man, you did well. I seriously wish I could have gone too. I gotta get my ass to a major one of these days. If only I wasn't so poverty tier at the moment lol.

They should all work from what I've seen. You get more options with the Bat in the corner and the Hammer Loop works with the Super Hammer now but that's all I know.

Actually that was just me speculating since I don't have the game myself lololol I guess you could omit the second set of 5A > 5C > JC > j.C > j.2C and just do 5A > 5B > 2B > 5C > Mami after the first set, see if that works. Then again, it wouldn't be a loop anymore XD

It's a good way to add a bit of extra damage to your mid-screen combos. However, you're better off doing 5A > 5C > Mami near and in the corner as you'll get more damage out of it as opposed to the j.B/j.C > j.2C loop.

She has a j.C > j.2C loop on everyone as long as they're standing. She has it on CSII but instead of j.C > j.2C you do delayed j.B > j.2C. An example would look like 5A > 5C > JC > j.C > j.2C > 5A > 5C > JC > j.C > j.2C > 5A > 5C > Mami. In CSII you do something like 5A > 5C > JC > delayed j.B > j.2C > 5A > etc.

I mentioned Air Persia very briefly in the Neutral: Long Range section but since I don't have the game and can't test the effectiveness of this myself, then I'll just leave it as is for now.

Damn, j.B seriously did not need a nerf what with its speed and how long it takes for the attack to actually hit below him.

I just auto-pilot that link, even the Japanese do it from time to time lol. If I know I'm gonna land the 5C CH, I just auto-pilot it, the link window is too tight.

5C works if you can punish something that's punishable at 10+ frames with 5C and you're nowhere near the corner and have no meter. I actually see 5C landing more often at that range than 5B but that's just me. I'd say that 5B shouldn't really be used at that range but then again it works as a frame trap going from 5A to 5B. Thanks for the feedback though, I'll add this to Mami Swallow resets section.

What about 5C? Can't she start the j.C > j.2C loop with that too?

So is the Astral data there accurate or not? If her Astral really got buffed like that then it's going to make for an even more legit anti-zoning tool. Also, I need my fellow Platnums' input on this: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?12992-CSE-Jin-vs-Platinum

How do you feel about people who mash, LK? By mashing, I mean the type that just mashes A or reversals on wake-up or during pressure and not the IB > 5A > hit-confirm against shoddy pressure type. I know that you can use this to your advantage by frame trapping, meaties, and baits but how do you feel about these people? Are there specific scenarios where you would encourage mashing?

Bwahaha, I see it being useful as hell against Jin's 2D, 5D, and 6D since those have a shitload of recovery, hell I'd even do it against his Ice Wave too just to save me a primer. Same deal with Mu's 236D if you start a combo and there's a laser coming your way to break your combo, I pogo stick right through that shit lol.

On that wiki, it says that the start-up for her Astral is 3(super flash) + 25 whereas right now on the DL frame data chart it's 6(super flash) + 31. Has her Astral really been buffed that much in terms of start-up? Also, what about Air Persia's projectile invul? Does it last long enough to have any real practical uses? Jumping over Death Spike and landing a FC would be lulz.

Ahh, so that's what it was. I had a feeling that what I had in mind is actually how staggering works. I just didn't know there was a term for that lol.

I've added a few things to your post and I have to ask a few questions here... What's a stagger? I keep on hearing people talk about stagger pressure. Is it delaying your jab pressure to make it harder to CA or jump out or something? How is 6A a reversal? Does it have full-body I-frames on this game or something? I know that it has upper body I-frames starting on frame 5 but that hardly makes it a reversal.

Bwahaha, I almost forgot how good chicken blocking still is in this game. Why bother trying to block mix-ups when I can just chicken block when the opportunity presents itself? lol