PozerWolf Posted June 17, 2009 Posted June 17, 2009 So what's the input on this match up? All I can say is, j.B beats Ragna. lolololololol am i rite or what?
shtkn Posted June 17, 2009 Posted June 17, 2009 good advice imo that seems to be the best way to get in on Ragna from my limited experience vs him. if ragna get's too happy with 5B, you can 5A it too
PozerWolf Posted June 18, 2009 Author Posted June 18, 2009 j.C actually beats Ragna's 6A and can even clash with his uppercut if spaces properly (and trust me, the spacing is not strict at all).
kid viper Posted June 18, 2009 Posted June 18, 2009 j.a will also beat or trade with ragna's 6a because it also has body property as well as head.
SolxBaiken Posted June 18, 2009 Posted June 18, 2009 So like jump + anything seems to be effective against him. What are you're best freezing options? Esspecially when a Ragna likes Gauntlet Hades (214B) and Hell Fang (214A)?
ryokoalways Posted June 28, 2009 Posted June 28, 2009 5D is good because it has fairly long active frames, and not horrible recovery. Problem is slow startup. 2D is for quicker startup, but slow recovery and doesn't have as many active frames. Also, 2D has smaller hit box (obviously). So at long distance, 5D just because it's very safe against either. 2D is too situational. It's not really much an engagement tool against ragna. Against rushdown characters you want 5D. Against zone I think 2D may be more preferred. The best option against both though is just a and b dp in my opinion. Jin's a and b dp are sooooo good. Another safe option is to jump forward (holding on autoblock, of course) if you think 214A is coming, and just 5D in the air. Worse case scenario you jump late and block it in the air. It's also not too big of a deal if he ends on being right below you because your jb and jc are good (or just 214b/c and gtfo). Honestly, against ragna your concern should be when you guys are in close-mid range combat (midrange is more dangerous). Ragna will totally destroy you with his normals if you are not careful. Long range combat take the fight to him with jumps because unlike GG, air throws won't own your face off if you are use to throw breaking.
InfiniteAmmo Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 Against ragna players? Rushdown, Rushdown, Block, 623A, ......taunt if you're cocky. A jin player could possibly counter Ragna all day, its just moving on offense is the problem. Plus if you slip, he hits like a ton of bricks. 5D is your friend as well.
H-F Blade Posted August 5, 2009 Posted August 5, 2009 From what I've played of this matchup, this matchup more or less depends on who's better at playing footsies. The biggest problem I have is when I'm at the spacing just outside his 5B. They tend to do one of two things. If I even do so much as twitch in their direction, they'll 5B me. I know you can 5A it, but if they opt for a Hell's Fang instead, I eat CH. If I block Hell's Fang, how do I punish it? Even if IB'd it doesn't seem very punishable. :\ HIGHLY annoying. I've also been watching some videos for this match, and it seems if you end an air combo with ice car really high off the ground and backdash upon landing to bait ID, the ID can STILL hit you. LAME!
Darkhonor90 Posted August 5, 2009 Posted August 5, 2009 From what I've played of this matchup, this matchup more or less depends on who's better at playing footsies. The biggest problem I have is when I'm at the spacing just outside his 5B. They tend to do one of two things. If I even do so much as twitch in their direction, they'll 5B me. I know you can 5A it, but if they opt for a Hell's Fang instead, I eat CH. If I block Hell's Fang, how do I punish it? Even if IB'd it doesn't seem very punishable. :\ HIGHLY annoying. I've also been watching some videos for this match, and it seems if you end an air combo with ice car really high off the ground and backdash upon landing to bait ID, the ID can STILL hit you. LAME! Hell's fang is REALLY punishable. Its a -9 on block. If they don't do the follow up after Hell's fang just quickly punish with a 5A,2A or 5B. Ya when you land your best bet is just to stand still and just watch for wether they tech neutral or roll left or right. If they roll bait it with 5B or 2B and if they neutral tech bait DP and start block string with 2A and repeat.
Skye Posted August 6, 2009 Posted August 6, 2009 Alright, I'm new here so give me a sec to get used to the numeric pad little thing you guys have going. My friend loves charging in, so a well timed 5D shuts most things down, I like to keep him frozen, so I tend to grab after a Frostbite, knowing he might (and very well likely) break out, I add in a couple 5a and/or a 5b before another grab, it's a matter of being unpredictable with it, if he screws up his grab release, free grab, however if he's expecting a late grab, then get him early to catch him off guard, but I digress since that whole tactic is universal, sorry. aerial b seems to be better than any aerial Ragna has, except for his anti air, plus if I recall it combos into a 5d in the air. Generally since Ragna lacks a projectile, Jin can camp and force an approach. The Achilles Heel to this plan is that Ragna had really good approaches, but I personally find it suicidal to approach Ragna as Jin. Oh yeah, Blizzard/Gale > Ragna.
Killey Posted August 6, 2009 Posted August 6, 2009 Hell's fang is REALLY punishable. Its a -9 on block. If they don't do the follow up after Hell's fang just quickly punish with a 5A,2A or 5B. Ya when you land your best bet is just to stand still and just watch for wether they tech neutral or roll left or right. If they roll bait it with 5B or 2B and if they neutral tech bait DP and start block string with 2A and repeat. Isn't Hell's Fang (214A) -4 on block and not -9? http://s1.zetaboards.com/blazblue/pages/ragna_data/ If it's -4f on block then it's really not safe to counter at all since Ragna's fastest move is 5A which is 5f and his inferno divider is 7f with invincibility at the beginning. Jin's fastest move is 5A which is 6f and his 2A is 7f. This means Ragna's 5A will always beat out yours and he could always just ID after wards. To me the Hell's Fang seemed liked something he used to fish out a CH. Correct me if I'm wrong though.
VR-Raiden Posted August 6, 2009 Posted August 6, 2009 Isn't Hell's Fang (214A) -4 on block and not -9? It's -4 on normal block, -9 if you instant block. If you normal block HF, and the Ragna tries to attack after it, you can get a counter hit throw if he attacks with anything but Inferno Divider or a slightly delayed HF ender. But both of those are a huge risk for Ragna as they are extremely unsafe. Instant block it, and you get a free combo.
Darcius Posted August 6, 2009 Posted August 6, 2009 It's -4 on normal block, -9 if you instant block. If you normal block HF, and the Ragna tries to attack after it, you can get a counter hit throw if he attacks with anything but Inferno Divider or a slightly delayed HF ender. But both of those are a huge risk for Ragna as they are extremely unsafe. Instant block it, and you get a free combo. Thanks. I actually was not aware.
Skye Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 5B stinks, it's really hard getting by that when Ragna does nothing but that move on recovery. And his anti air will beat your Blizzard. Gotta use Gale (or whatever it's called). Ragna is a much easier fight if you know how to Instant Block very well.
Coren Posted August 20, 2009 Posted August 20, 2009 Ragna is a much easier fight if you know how to Instant Block very well. Everything is a much easier fight if you know how to instant block well. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that IB 623A/B/C is the shit. 623A comes out in 6F, so unless your opponent has a 0-1 frame move, you are gonna beat them out or trade. 623B is invincible from frames 6-19, which happens to be how long it'll take for anything your opponent has to come out; you will beat them out everytime. 623C is invincible from 1-22, you are invincible for 4 frames before your opponent can even do anything and then 18 more afterwards, redonk.
Skye Posted August 22, 2009 Posted August 22, 2009 Ragna's Anti air will beat A and B, his has invincibility frames too and they last longer than Blizzard B. Gale wil cancel out with Ragna's, but Ragna wil keep going, leaving him in counter hit while you are free to do anything to him.
ocdscale Posted September 2, 2009 Posted September 2, 2009 Let me see if I have this right: Throw beats all of Ragna's options after Hells Fang, except for ID or Hells Fang followup If you block either of those, you get a free combo. If you do nothing, it gets reset. So you have to make them afraid to followup after (blocked) Hells Fang, otherwise it's free pressure for him, right?
Blade Posted September 2, 2009 Posted September 2, 2009 I see a lot of good Jins blocking Ragna's wakeup DP and punishing, but is there a point where his wakeup DP is unsafe? Also looking for stuff to beat Hell's Fang at mid range.
Skye Posted September 2, 2009 Posted September 2, 2009 Also looking for stuff to beat Hell's Fang at mid range. DP "b" or "c" > Hell's Fang at any range.
Coren Posted September 4, 2009 Posted September 4, 2009 What's the best Reward:Risk punish for wakeup Inferno Divider? I'm a little fuzzy on how to punish it the best way, I often get pegged backdashing it.
kid viper Posted September 4, 2009 Posted September 4, 2009 if you bait the divider and they are unable to block, do a 6D to ch as starting combos off with that will yield very high damage. if mid screen: 6D 6C dash cancel 5c j.C JC j.C 214C/D if in corner: 6D delay 623B 5C j.C JC j.C 214C/D (If D then you can follow with 3c 236c for wakeup pressure or 2c 623B 623A(? can't remember if it connects) for extra damage.)
Killey Posted September 4, 2009 Posted September 4, 2009 if you bait the divider and they are unable to block, do a 6D to ch as starting combos off with that will yield very high damage. if mid screen: 6D 6C dash cancel 5c j.C JC j.C 214C/D if in corner: 6D delay 623B 5C j.C JC j.C 214C/D (If D then you can follow with 3c 236c for wakeup pressure or 2c 623B 623A(? can't remember if it connects) for extra damage.) Corner both DP's will connect and it yields over 5k dmg.
Skye Posted September 5, 2009 Posted September 5, 2009 What's the best Reward:Risk punish for wakeup Inferno Divider? I'm a little fuzzy on how to punish it the best way, I often get pegged backdashing it. Block or DP "c" DP "C" clashes and and Jin is left free to strike before Ragna.
ichabod Posted September 5, 2009 Posted September 5, 2009 if you bait the divider and they are unable to block, do a 6D to ch as starting combos off with that will yield very high damage. So there is no other way then just anticipating a divider and punish? Even though merely a beginner I used to use 5B to get them to either neutral roll(tech?) and block or roll away from me, which puts me in a good position of controlling the match. But with Ragna (and a few others i suppose) getting a knock down does not help me much, either he uses infernal divider, which they often cancel and from there continue attacking OR he rolls in any direction he wants because he knows I'm usually to afraid to use 5B. Having the advantage after a knockdown helped me a great deal in matches, without it I have a lot harder time pressuring. Another thing I was wondering about was Ragnas 2A, is there a good way of getting around it besides not being predictable with jump-ins?
ryokoalways Posted September 5, 2009 Posted September 5, 2009 ID recovery is shit awful. Hell, even if you weren't looking for it, you still have plenty of time to react and rip him a new one. Tsubame, on the other hand, is much faster and you should probably just stick out a 5b, 5c if you IBed it.
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