[CT+CS1] Noel vs. Tager

[Raptor]

For my experience, neutral air tech is the only air tech you should do should you find yourself launched in the air. Air teching left or right is a free Atomic Collider especially when magnetised since it leaves you in the air longer.

[MiraclePizza]

Neutral air tech can be suspect to command throw traps, but technically it is still one of the safest options since Noel really doesn't want to deal with gadget finger either. Conversely, if he does a quick collider release aiming for a command throw trap then you can forward/back airtech to actually get away from him since the momentum from magnetic pull will hurl you to the other side of the screen. Of course, if you don't want to play his guessing game here then you can always just play it at gadget finger, which still isn't a bad choice or anything since you still have ways to be obnoxious against gadget oki.

[Mezagodyah]

I know im a little new here but from my experience cause i main noel. I like to take tager for a ride by using 236+ABC either one depending on range but of course keeping him at a distance at first. Then Waiting for either a good connect or to the point where he gets a little to comfortable and then i go in from the air mostly to get him comfortable with alot of 5cs and 5bs then throw in some ground running instead of air after I back off every incomplete combo. It is not fullllyy safe but about 70% of my matches I have no fear of getting in and out or staying in on tager. I try to bait some of his grabs with 4C so that it saves me or he eats it but most of the time it just saves me. I would focus on not breaking combos to much in his face though because he usually just grabs you out of it. So focus on giving him a lot of high lows and when you have a bit of distance off of your mix up high lows you can throw in a 5c here and there to bait get him to grab and take that hit.

This is just some of my experience though with tager. Still not winning enough matches to him to consider it full proof.

[dragontamer]

I know im a little new here but from my experience cause i main noel. I like to take tager for a ride by using 236+ABC either one depending on range but of course keeping him at a distance at first.

Both 236A and 236B can be punished with Tager's 236B into a counter-hit Sledge combo. Very nasty, I don't recommend it unless Tager is airborne. Good Tagers will punish you on Reaction 100% of the time. Remember: Tager is slow, but not the player who is playing him. Your opponent sees the game at the same speed as you.

Full screen 236C is reasonably safe, but when you're magnetized Tager's 2D will catch you even at full screen. And that leads to a re-magnetized setup for Tager (ie: 623C whiff 720C or super-jump j.D whiff 720C shenanigans).

Overall, be careful about optic barrel. Its situationally very useful, 236A counter-hits can lead to 66C j.D combos, and is thus a semi-useful ground-approach if you think Tager's reacting to your dash-in with a 360A. 236B Rapid gives you a decent frame advantage and enough room to get into 5A distance for your pressure / mixup game.

**********

As others have stated throughout this thread... you need a good ground game. Control your distance with carefully spaced 664AB (barrier block cancel those dashes!) and never get predictable with your dash-ins or jump-ins.

[Mezagodyah]

Both 236A and 236B can be punished with Tager's 236B into a counter-hit Sledge combo. Very nasty, I don't recommend it unless Tager is airborne. Good Tagers will punish you on Reaction 100% of the time. Remember: Tager is slow, but not the player who is playing him. Your opponent sees the game at the same speed as you.

Full screen 236C is reasonably safe, but when you're magnetized Tager's 2D will catch you even at full screen. And that leads to a re-magnetized setup for Tager (ie: 623C whiff 720C or super-jump j.D whiff 720C shenanigans).

Overall, be careful about optic barrel. Its situationally very useful, 236A counter-hits can lead to 66C j.D combos, and is thus a semi-useful ground-approach if you think Tager's reacting to your dash-in with a 360A. 236B Rapid gives you a decent frame advantage and enough room to get into 5A distance for your pressure / mixup game.

**********

As others have stated throughout this thread... you need a good ground game. Control your distance with carefully spaced 664AB (barrier block cancel those dashes!) and never get predictable with your dash-ins or jump-ins.

Alright sounds good!!! Thanks a lot im going to be trying that tonight hopefully if I find any tagers online.

[WSUNLIMITED]

a simple yet effecitve techinque ive found for noel against tager is when i see a sledge hammer happy tager. air dash with jA when it hits mash jA until you hit the ground then tap him with a standing A then 6A into an air combo of your choice or throw (good chance of getting teched but higher damage potential) followed by your choice of combo.

[kuma]

Honestly, I prefer 5D into a full combo vs sledge happy Tagers. It trains them not to do it, and moreover to be afraid of attacking you. Obviously, this is sometimes problematic online, but offline you can 5D on reaction.

[Heroic_Legacy]

So what do you do if there ISN'T a sledge happy Tager?

[Runis]

Curl up into a tiny ball and die.

This is CS1 Noel we're talking about.

[kuma]

I'm sure this has been covered somewhat already. As far as I know, this isn't a terrible fight for Noel, just 4-6 or something. It's not unwinnable.

The key is to be careful. Never leave gaps in a blockstring. Tager can 360 you if you do. Stop your string and watch for what the Tager does when you hit a part of your blockstring where there would be a gap. If they always 360, start punishing them for it.

Try to avoid magnatism at all costs. 3C used to be reliable against Tager's Spark Bolt, but this is no longer the case (you can do it, but you have to start long before Tager enters the command). 4D is a much better option now.

From across the screen, there are a limited number of ways that Tager can approach. Learn each of them and how to respond. Once Tager is close enough, start pressure. Capitalize on any hit. Tager is one of the easiest characters to Haida loop; take advantage of this. When you've finished a combo or blockstring, you can start pressure again or run away and force him to approach you. If Tager is hanging out at the other side of the screen, throw an Optic Barrel or two at him to get him moving.

Half your attacks won't work against Tager half the time. Don't throw out random D moves. Only use D when punishing. 5C and j.C are dangerous, but useful. Be careful with them.

[Danny Schme]

Unless you can consistently IB, you're going to lose in the long run. That is all. Everything in this match is common sense from CT. A good Tager will not give you free 5D CH attempts very often by any means. Shutting down Tager with 5B is not as brain dead as it once was in CT, but its still your best tool. Do your best to hitconfirm CH 5Bs into 3C as much as possible. This matchup is a hard 6-4 against Noel, deal with it.

If you haven't figured out this matchup by now, you're not going to. Play by Tager's rules.

[bluecarrot]

Hey quick question. A lot of times when i play my friends tager I stay away and so does he. So the battle usually lasts a while with me just snipping him with optic barrel. BUT! about half the time he gets me into the corner(sparkbolt nonsense and 2d and such)... Then he begins this stupid magnetized pressure. Its like 5a,5a,5a,5a,5a,236a,5d. For some reason I haven't found a way out. Is this actual pressure or am I not seeing something?

[SkyKing]

IB what you can out of the 5As and 236A to gain meter, and punish the gap in his 5D with your own 5D. Also, when you gain the 50 meter and your back is to the corner, use her Counter Assault to switch sides and put him in the corner instead. Then, stay about 1 Tager-body length away to see what her does. If he tries to jump out, then tag him with either 6A, 4D, or j.5A/B. If shouldn't be able to hit you with jabs or his 5B/2B lows, so you can react to the lower moves with either drives or 5C counter hit into some combo.

It a lot different in higher-level play when 5D isn't used so much, so keeping exploiting that 236A > 5D gap until he learns not to use it. Then, you'll both level up your games.

[bluecarrot]

IB what you can out of the 5As and 236A to gain meter, and punish the gap in his 5D with your own 5D. Also, when you gain the 50 meter and your back is to the corner, use her Counter Assault to switch sides and put him in the corner instead. Then, stay about 1 Tager-body length away to see what her does. If he tries to jump out, then tag him with either 6A, 4D, or j.5A/B. If shouldn't be able to hit you with jabs or his 5B/2B lows, so you can react to the lower moves with either drives or 5C counter hit into some combo.

It a lot different in higher-level play when 5D isn't used so much, so keeping exploiting that 236A > 5D gap until he learns not to use it. Then, you'll both level up your games.

Right thanks. Guess i just gotta stick it out till I can punish. Oh and lol "Tager body length" I thought that I was the only person who used tagers as a unit of measure

[SkyKing]

Since he takes up so much space, he kind of warrants his own unit of measurement.

Also, cover your jumps with j.A. I like to keep Tager honest of getting hit if he tries to approach incorrectly. But don't go wild, or else you'll eat a 360 or 720.

[bluecarrot]

Ok, sounds good. My friend is a bastard as tager so anything helps. Plus I play him so often that we know each others play styles in and out.

[madaxe_munkee]

I've put alot of work into making my anti-Tager game as good as possible. He used to be my worst matchup, but now I don't seem to have much of a problem anymore.

I guess the first thing that I'll say about it, is 'learn good combos'. And by 'good combos' I mean, if you want to really get a heads up over him you want to know some really solid combos. Tager is one of the easiest characters to haida-loop and a well practiced Noel can do 5k against Tager without Tension, and that's really important. If you can't match his damage, then you're going to have alot of trouble bringing him down. However, when you can finally pull it off, most Tagers don't know what hit them.

But well, setting that aside. You have to keep out of his grab range whenever you're not attacking him. If you get him in a block string, don't stick around. Knock him up a little, and then backdash/airdash out of there as quickly as possible especially if you start seeing him flash white. 5B is my favourite poke against Tager. It has good range, and on counterhit can combo right into 3C which means good damage, which is key. It's also something you can use to poke him while he's recovering from certain slow moves (although if the move is slow enough, you'll be better off just going straight for the 3C instead, since it leads to her best damage). I like to 5B Tagers that like to Sledge lots.

Play keep away, but when you do get in close you might as well try some quick mixup. Watch Tager's sparkbolt gauge. When I'm fighting Tager and I see that his gauge is full, I hop to the other side of the screen to bait it and when he shoots his sparkbolt at me, I use a well timed 4D to go through it. Practise doing that, it's a surefire way to amaze and surprise some people.

Also watch the way Tager moves. If he jumps, remember that he might be buffering Tager Buster and don't try and run at him. If he does voltec charge, he might be buffering Tager Buster in there as well, so be careful. When you're magnetized, stay away but be careful not to backdash too much etc. Don't allow yourself to be put under negative penalty. When Tager is on the ground rising, he might do a Tager Buster when he wakes up, so don't stand right on top of him unless you have a reason to believe that he won't. If he backdashes, don't run after him because he might Tager Buster once he's finished yomi-ing your moves. Train yourself out of these bad habits.

Also, know that Tager's Drive moves (which magnetize you) are best countered by Noel's 5D or potentially 4D. If you learn the timing to go through it and are able to reliably predict when your opponent uses them, it'll be happy times for you. However, never use 5D or 4D if you're not certain that it's going to go through one of Tager's moves. Chain Revolver Blockstrings (an oxymoron?) are just too unsafe against Tager. Never try and use 5D to mount an offense against Tager. 5B and 5C are alot safer, and I shy away from 5A, because it requires me to be too close (no matter how much frame advantage it has).

Also, curiously: Fenrir beats Emerald Tager Buster. It really does. If you get real good, you can do it on reaction possibly. Just don't throw Fenrir out all the time, because if you miss, you'll probably eat a sparkbolt for breakfast. And all of your teeth as well.

Optic Barrel is not that great against Tager (or anyone else for that matter). Sometimes I throw it out when he's far away just to remind him that he has sledge, so he can try it on me and I can 5B him.

I think that I'm all out of tips now finally. Maybe if you ask more specific questions I'll remember to check and answer them. At least I hope I will.

[Kaisukex]

Aerial is best against Tager. But if the tager user uses barrier.then use B+C > RC > 2D > d.5C > d.6C > d.2D > d.6A > 214A > 2B > 6C j.D > d.6D > d.6B > d.5D >d.236D. :3

[Runis]

Kai, that doesn't look like a CS1 combo >.>

[Danny Schme]

What the hell did I just read.

[eLPointe]

For Tager:

As a Noel main I have played many Tagers over the course of CT and CS. The match up for Tager v. Noel in CS is definitely in Tagers favor. But if played right it can almost seem like the other way around. Here are a few simple tips, they have more than likely already been mentioned before but they work, so practice them and try it out for yourself.

1.) The keep away game, Keeping your distance and staying out of range of his throws is a great way to deal with Tager. When a Tager is using super jumps to gain ground on you keep in mind that your 6a goes through anything he can do in the air, so the timing on this is pretty key and can open up Tager for 2.5k dam. approximately. Do not try to use any D drive moves like 5d and 4d for their inv. frames when Tager comes through the air to combo him on the drop, if he blocks and buffers a throw hee has inv. frames too!

2.) Make the most of your combos, as mentioned before Tager is extremely easy to haida loop and get those nice 4.5k -5k dam. combos off. So if your not getting haida loops off on a regular basis work on that, and it will make Tager and even Hakumen all the easier to deal with. Sometimes, you might find your self hitting him with 5a's or 5b's keep in mind every bit of dam. helps, keep the pokes up try doing 5a, 2b, 6a, 6c, 236a, 66c, sjc. 5d, 6d, 236d. it works and does help keeping your pressure on.

3.) aerial approach, still the best way to approach Tager. one thing you can do for nice mix up is while air dashing 5b, 5c, 4d if hit hits, it may fc in which case you can go into some nice 5k dam. if it does not, mix him up again, 214d. to get him away from you. If you have him in the corner, try sitting right on top of him and jumping last second and 5d. This can counter and open him up for a good amount of dam. Watch his meter though, if he uses wheel your getting hit.

4.) pokes, as mentioned above, try to avoid your D-drive unless you have Tager in a combo. trying to use them randomly will get you into some trouble, not even just with Tager but with anyone, Tager in particular can use sledge to go through any D-drive move. Keep this in mind. Stick with the pokes and look for hit confirms and counters.

Those are a few tips, they work for me so hopefully they will help others out. This is I personally think one of Noels worst match ups. I have more trouble vs. Tager than I do Bang, who is suppose to be our worst match up.

[Runis]

214D vs tager is very bad. 720 doesn't care if you're crossing up.

[eLPointe]

the whole point of doing 214d is your doing a double cross-up, following the 4d in air. Chances are a Tager won't expect this so 9/10 times it works for me. IF you just flat out do it as your first cross-up after say d.6c than yes you are probably going to get command thrown out o fit, or getb'd. But like I said doing it the way mentioned above, usually catches them off guard. Try it out, don't knock it until you try. But don't over use as Tagers will catch on.

Also note, that Noel is a high risk char. get use to trying risky things. And see what people fall for, got to be risky with her for the nice payouts of dam. you can achieve.

Edited February 13, 2011 by eLPointe

[DubiousCurvLoop]

Does 360/720 punish Noel's j.4d on block, or does she have enough time to do anything else besides RC to save herself?

[bluecarrot]

they all punish it.... unless you go 2d right after and get really lucky, like if he does a buster right after you can 2d and you get aerial , j.4d will almost always be punished. not a single drive move has a start up less than 6 frames (ie: b tager buster) so rapid cancel or hope your opponent cant 360.

edit: im also pretty sure if ur magnetized he can astral you off of the recovery frames. idk though noels drive frame data is really confusing. I'd just suggest not using it unless ur punishing atomic collider

Edited February 19, 2011 by bluecarrot