Suggested Tweaks and Oversights

[greatfernman]

I'd just like to say again: player skill and player knowledge are not necessarily related.
You can be good without knowing anything.
It's just that knowledge of the game system is required for you to suggest changes. You need to know how the changes you want would be put into the game to know what all the effects your suggested changes would have.

I was never doubting your skill as a player and I may very well be a worse player than you

I just think you were being dumb by suggesting balance without understanding the game.

[Sol Badguy Z AC]

DaiAndOh

Hey man, I was infected with Steve's constant complaining.  What can I say?  He only ever does it around me for whatever reason, maintaining a quiet more laid back demeanor around everyone else when playing.

And no, I don't play in Xanadu tournaments.  I have financial instability, so I can only ever afford to play online or on house visits.  I also got no ride.  Maybe some time in the near future.

 

greatfernman

I just think you were being dumb by suggesting balance without understanding the game.

All you guys have proven is that I don't know guilty gear related terms and am probably iffy on some of the terms that I do bring up.  That does NOT justify such an incredibly broad statement as my not understanding the game.  I watch more matches than I actually play, and hell, I even complain in place of the player who was bullshitted.  I'll admit I made a few dumb mistakes jumping into thread creation without testing stuff before making suggestions for buffing Sol.  Though we didn't really go through the entire cast yet, and I like buffing everyone up, normally. 

Edited September 10, 2015 by Sol Badguy Z AC

[greatfernman]

Let me give you an example.
You wanted more untech time on j.D
You cannot do that without also increasing the blockstun and advantage on block. You need to know how attack levels work in order to work in the framework of guilty gear.
(Unless you want like just a special rule for j.d where it just has more untech time on air hit, but then the game would be rife with special addenda)

[zankoku]

Uh, if you haven't taken the time to read the frame data and don't know anything about attack levels (a set of categories for attacks that determine things like hitstun, blockstun, and hitstop; that's been used in pretty much every ArcSys fighter), then yes, I would very much say that you lack an understanding of the mechanics of the game. Knowing how to play and seeing things happen in videos, you may very well learn what works, but without researching anything about attack properties and frames, you won't be able to determine why it works; and balance changes affect what works by directly changing the why. Suggesting changes on attack and character attributes without knowing anything about actual current state and values is akin to rolling dice with balance.

[Sol Badguy Z AC]

See this kinda helps.  If this is a rule in guilty gear, then okay, I didn't know that.  I normally tend to think of this stuff in coding terms, where all values are determined separately (yeah, I fux with mugen - not that this feature is a staple only to mugen, know this). 

Edited September 10, 2015 by Sol Badguy Z AC

[Sol Badguy Z AC]

Uh, if you haven't taken the time to read the frame data and don't know anything about attack levels (a set of categories for attacks that determine things like hitstun, blockstun, and hitstop; that's been used in pretty much every ArcSys fighter), then yes, I would very much say that you lack an understanding of the mechanics of the game. Knowing how to play and seeing things happen in videos, you may very well learn what works, but without researching anything about attack properties and frames, you won't be able to determine why it works; and balance changes affect what works by directly changing the why. Suggesting changes on attack and character attributes without knowing anything about actual current state and values is akin to rolling dice with balance.

Well, it's the first time I've ever heard of a fighting game resorting to a sort of table for all attacks.  I guess I don't know shit then.  LOL :V

Ouch.  But fine, I get you, I get you.

 

******************************************************

Well then, from here on out, shall we speak of low tier characters who need buffs?  I'd like to know more about what that guy Naka was talking about.  I know they nerfed Ram, and buffed Pot, but apparently they're still ass.  Can we point out what problems they have now how they can possibly be addressed?

Edited September 10, 2015 by Sol Badguy Z AC

[DaiAndOh]

DaiAndOh

Hey man, I was infected with Steve's constant complaining.  What can I say?  He only ever does it around me for whatever reason, maintaining a quiet more laid back demeanor around everyone else when playing.

And no, I don't play in Xanadu tournaments.  I have financial instability, so I can only ever afford to play online or on house visits.  I also got no ride.  Maybe some time in the near future.

Oh you haven't seen Steve H travel out to big tournaments then. Running on top of tables and such :P.

[daymendou]

(Unless you want like just a special rule for j.d where it just has more untech time on air hit, but then the game would be rife with special addenda)

j.D does have special air untech time. It is attack level 3 (16F untech time normally) with 9/7/13 frames. The basic j.D > j.D link would be impossible if it did not have such a bonus.

[Synyster17]

STEVE H WANTS KY TO HAVE AN AIR GREED SEVER, AIR SPLIT CIEL, AUTOMATIC JUMP INSTALL ON AIR FIREBALL YRC, ETC.  WHAT DO YOU THINK GUYS? 

okay and where is ur proof to this?

[Sol Badguy Z AC]

Oh I've seen it.  Of course not in person.  We did so much dumb shit in the early 2000s I can't remember it all.

 

He lost my money at Evo 2015, and now I'm having him watch 10 Blazblue combo videos as punishment.

Edited September 10, 2015 by Sol Badguy Z AC

[Poultrygeist]

Air Greed Saber is honestly something I'm surprised hasn't happened yet.  I'm not sure what you'd do with it though.

[Sol Badguy Z AC]

He wanted it to be a combo ender that knocks opponents down, but he never said what it would do if it hit someone in any other circumstance.

[Naka]

@Sol Badguy Z AC 

 

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/forums/topic/11803-suggested-tweaks-and-oversights/&page=5#comment-935745

sounds like sarcasm but take that part out still can serve as a soundly argument about how I actually did shot down the nerfs you proposed. In general, if there are 5 character that are as strong as each others and you want to nerf one to balanced the roster, you need to do the same to the other 4. If you have time, reread some posts of people you might have missed.

Edit: I might have yet made myself clear. The two nerf you talk about are 2 very powerful and unique mechanic to Faust, if you take it out or change it to the way you think it's fair, it will ruin Faust as a character, and that's counterproductive. You have played for 15 years, you should already know these 2 mechanics have been there for as long as Faust is and nobody have problem with it. It's strong and fair, that's all.

Greed Sever was created to be an overhead. Creating an air version to be an ender sound weird because they need to have very different attritutes then. Need clearer ideas about how this should work.

 

Edited September 11, 2015 by Naka

[Pichy]

 

Let me give you an example.
You wanted more untech time on j.D
You cannot do that without also increasing the blockstun and advantage on block. You need to know how attack levels work in order to work in the framework of guilty gear.
(Unless you want like just a special rule for j.d where it just has more untech time on air hit, but then the game would be rife with special addenda)

 

 

Attack level determines the hitstun on opponents that are grounded and airborne if the Guard Bar is at the middle or higher. Once it moves below the center, hitstun deteriorates. There's obviously a minimum level hitstun can reach in the air as you can mash j.P for as long as you're in contact with an opponent even when the guard bar is completely depleted.

Untechable Time is a fixed variable separate from this that applies to airborne opponents in order to ensure certain things still work once the Guard Bar has started depleting. The attack level's hitstun is then applied after the untechable frames. If this weren't the case, Dustloop would've probably been an infinite until AC worked in extra gravity scaling as well.

Untechable Time is an adjustable variable independent of Attack Level. j.D's untech time was adjusted from Vanilla to #Reload, #Reload to Slash, Slash to AC and AC to AC+R. None of those games changed the Attack Level. Just the untech time.

Edited September 11, 2015 by Pichy

[greatfernman]

Idk about previous versions but thats not how I understand it based on the official 4gamer wiki for xrd. When an attack hits it's hitstop>hitstun as far as I understand it
ofc the wiki might just not cover it, it doesn't list stuff like the formula for guard bar hitstun proration, so you might be right. Do you have like source information I could read?

[Ryyudo]

 

You're either forgetting how much shenanegans he gets off of shorthops, air drills and low altitude GMW, or you're thinking about the way YOU play him.  I don't want to sit there blocking all day, nor do I think blitzing is all that safe an option - you see, gaps in pressure aren't necessarily a bad thing, they're definitely not a concern when your character leaves very little room between gaps to attack them effectively.  Damn near every Faust player I've ever seen keeps their opponent cornered far longer than any expert Sol player - and keeping someone stuck in a single spot for a quite a while is something I consider rushdown.  Let us not confuse rushdown for lockdown, something Zato is known for.  Also, don't forget that he's got a command grab, one that I don't want to see the results of with a high or maxed out risc meter.

And why can't I?  The fact is, that he gets anywhere from 8 - 15 item tosses per round if he's playing effectively, and throwing out the items when properly spaced or using enough variations in his attacks to deter punish attempts sees that he's very safe and involves little risk when on the offensive.  While I agree with you that certain items can totally screw him up as much as they do his opponents, he's got more useful items than he does trashy, counterproductive ones.

Most..... scratch that, all of the time when he uses GMW, it's at a low altitude so that he DOES land to cancel out his vulnerability.  Are you saying that you can air throw it, however?  Pretty sure that doesn't matter though, it's usually canceled from another attack.

His pressure is crazy.  I don't know what you're talking about.

Never seen anyone get full punishes off of him doing anything that they didn't anticipate before hand.  From full screen, maybe a forward punch puts him in his place.  But in your face?  Ain't a safe option to get rid of his ass.

 Which he'll get from several of his ridiculously usefull item tosses.  It doesn't matter which, so long as they get him a knockdown or have them back themselves into a corner because he's poking them and anti airing them every time they attempt to jump in.  And as of a few hours ago, I found out that he can actually use forward hardslash for a 6th anti air (video of Nage vs Kazunoko).  WOW.

That is NOT an instance of a hurtbox issue.  That's a built in drawback to using thrust as a move.  Name some combos that he has that are prone to missing against a character simply because his hitbox doesn't touch their hurtbox despite the fact that his image is clearly touching the opponent, and we'll talk.  I still see expert players going for juggles and missing despite the fact that they know the matchup.

 Well of course I meant the item tosses.  He gets them out as often as he's in neutral, so the moment they expire, he just throws out another one.

- Dust is an anti air because it's got invulnerability and can be used to turn the opponent's attack into a free combo for him instead.

- I just saw Nage interrupt Sol's dive kick with motherfucking forward hardslash dude.  All I could do was shake my head.

- All anti airs have a semblance of risk to them.  Just because crawl has a risk to it doesn't mean you can't use it to make their anti airs whiff.

Overall though, the fact that he has plenty to work with is NOT anything short of being overkill.

Would I be right in assuming that "honest" means that he's not full of bullshit?  I object to such claims.  He's the only character in the game that can divekick from any height once he leaves the ground.  Not only that, he can cancel the startup of that move into a block to make a shorthop safejump, falling back toward the ground instantaneously.  That makes a high low mixup hard to see, not to mention helps his pressure game tremendously.  His useful items make it so that he always gets a chance for a knockdown, while simultaneously (when spaced correctly and varied well enough), makes him safe to all manner of punishment.  He has a GET OVER HERE in friggin Guilty Gear dude.  And a command throw.  The punishments he eats don't quite lead to the deserved damage, and he has a deceptive hitbox.  Honest my ass :P  If anything, people don't realize what exactly is going on and therefore don't know they're being gypped. 

 There's a reason why I don't throw projectiles to get rid of minifaust, and it's the same exact reason top players don't either - they don't want to give faust a free knockdown.  I don't want to jump over it either, giving him yet another chance to get a free knockdown.  The only thing really is to sit back and hope he does something stupid so that I can anticipate and either IAD over there, or blitz him, etc, neither options are all that safe, meanwhile minifaust is still a trottin'.  If it died half screen, boo hoo, he can just go and throw another stupid useful item.

So we agree on this

I was simply amused at what you called stun dipper.  I don't think I have a comment on that particular portion though, that I haven't already stated above.

Guilty Gear, and most other Arc systems games have always valued high pressure characters with more chances to attack over those with ridiculous damage, unless that character was getting it for free.  Taking something out of blazblue for a moment (don't know which one, don't bother asking me), it's the reason why Rachel eats Ragna up for free.  She does piddly shit for damage, but who cares, she gets a hell of a lot more opportunities to attack than he does.  Who cares if you can do 80% damage in one combo if you can never get the chance to pull it off?  The fact that Faust can be all over you within a moment's notice because of a stupid gimmick which almost always leads to a knockdown (lol at crawl > cr. punch > cr. D) is more evidence of why he's top.

 

 

As of this moment, it took roughly 45 minutes to type this reply to you, because addressing your replies using the quote system is that time consuming.  My typing speed is 55 wpm, so yeah, this is quite aggravating.

Sorry man.  It works pretty well for me.  I'll try to summarize more than piece-by-piece.

After catching up on the thread, I think I'm seeing where I'm lost on your and my thoughts of rushdown vs lockdown terminology.  No biggie, I'm just less confused now.

 

Yes, I'm not disagreeing he GETS shenanigans off his Drill Cancel, I'm more on the point of once he gets to a safe point of using it, he gets 1 or 2, MAYBE 3, chances at, possibly disrespect-able, mix ups.  Outside of the first one being super ambiguous, the remaining one(s) are a little bit more predictable/a LOT less damaging both position-wise and damage output-wise.  If you don't WANT to block, that's your prerogative and your playstyle.  That's fine.  Just consider that you're taking away one of the game's options for you to use, instead of directly blaming the character for clashing directly with your playstyle.  The only reason I can think of Faust players keeping other players locking the corner for "longer" is because Faust needs that many more combos/opportunities to kill.

 

I see a lot of "deserve buttwhooping" and "getting full punish".  I don't believe that's the proper way to handle Faust; Faust is just not that kind of character.  He's a character who focuses on control (over the screen, locking down, etc.)  Hitting him proper, even if it's not a full punish, is taking that control away.  Your taking Faust's strongest and major gameplan away from him and it becomes easier to run ship on him.  Once you start running ship too, it's harder for him to get out.  Faust doesn't have as mashable moves during gaps, so it requires good defense and decision making to get out instead of using a 3-4f jab to abuse gaps.  Things such as Dust (YRC) (still don't agree this is an "anti-air" as it doesn't discourage someone from being in the air, but that's just semantics at this point as I see where you're coming from now), particular pokes in response to jumps or IBing into a quick poke, etc. all require a level of precision and thus difficulty.  It's not free outs or easy, they're just options that are good in particular situations, just like the rest of his moveset.  I still say his defense is weaker, not just because of his defense/guts level, but because it requires blocking and knowing options/spacing to get out of a bad situation.  A bad situation that could lead to some hiiiigh damage against Faust.

 

You're right about his items: The good outweigh the bad.  Otherwise this move wouldn't be useful (of course).  And yes, his moves are meant to keep you in the zones of the items while he stays away safely.  Still, it seems like the issue here is respecting Faust's abilities.  You dislike how he can punish people jumping in.  Just like in Street Fighter: don't jump.  Especially since this game has a lot more movement options than SF: running with FD braking, FD blocking in air if you think the Faust will try to AA, divekicking an AA attempt, heck even moves that move you forward with a low-profile like Grand Viper or the Ky Slip 'N Slide (glad you like this name :>) makes Faust have to react or guess to what you're doing.  Faust still has a game to play out, it's not JUST willy-nilly "whatever just throw out this move because it's awesome."

 

You'd be correct in "honest" means "not full of bullshit".  Because he's not.  He has tricks and everything, but he doesn't net ridiculous damage from a single mistake, his moves are straightforward for the most part and often can be handled one-at-a-time (more pokes, less up-close pressure), little in the way of ridiculous mixups or truly forcing an opponent to block (Zato/Millia).  Hard to see != forced to respect, especially in the same way you would for Zato/Millia/Elphelt's (for some characters). Just as every Faust poke is used to counter something, each poke has its own shortcomings that can be countered too.  Of course, it's not easy (that's the point), but a mistake with a small punish usually turns into a lack of control for Faust.  That's where other characters really do a lot more of what they want, but they still gotta do it well or intelligently.  Knockdown, like pretty much all characters in this game, is where Faust's game of control really starts.  

 

6H AA against things sounds hella risky, but awesome.  I've used it as an AA, but never exactly on purpose.  I'm gonna mess with that here in a minute :>

(btw, 2P, 2D doesn't combo, even on CH.  Don't fear it super badly from max range, it's a tool to keep opponents in check and to keep them out quickly, not just to combo even if it can from close range.  Otherwise it's just a frame trap/a way for Faust to get his control game started as 2D is jump and special cancel-able)

 

Also, without going too much into it as you're not sure of the version; it sounds like you're talking about BlazBlue Continuum Shift where Rachel did jack for damage but still had decent wind gimmicks.

Ragna definitely won that MU.  I think everyone won MU against her though in that version, to be fair lol.

Edited September 11, 2015 by Ryyudo

[Magaki]

Attack level determines the hitstun on opponents that are grounded and airborne if the Guard Bar is at the middle or higher. Once it moves below the center, hitstun deteriorates. There's obviously a minimum level hitstun can reach in the air as you can mash j.P for as long as you're in contact with an opponent even when the guard bar is completely depleted.

Untechable Time is a fixed variable separate from this that applies to airborne opponents in order to ensure certain things still work once the Guard Bar has started depleting. The attack level's hitstun is then applied after the untechable frames. If this weren't the case, Dustloop would've probably been an infinite until AC worked in extra gravity scaling as well.

Untechable Time is an adjustable variable independent of Attack Level. j.D's untech time was adjusted from Vanilla to #Reload, #Reload to Slash, Slash to AC and AC to AC+R. None of those games changed the Attack Level. Just the untech time.

No idea who told you that dude and no offense but that's DEFINETELY not how hitstun decay worked in GG. EVER.
You're a good poster so I assume you either misunderstood something or you believed what someone told you.
And to prove my claims, I'll provide examples you can all test by yourselves in Xrd (though, they aren't necessarily easy).

Guard bar only affects 2 things. 3 technically in #R.

  First, guard bar only affects damage scaling once its below 50% (below 0% for Xrd. Obviously in Xrd's case, guard bar can have a negative value). Initial proration and forced proration are still applied though (you can test that with moves that got proration, RCs and obviously a full bar).

  Second, once the guard bar flashes, any hit will be a counter hit (Above 75% for previous games. Above 50% for Xrd).

  Third that only concerns #R IIRC. (Don't remember if it was in XX). If the guard bar is above 50%, raw damage is increased for a grand maximum of 100% its value. (Zappa's 2H did 60 dmg raw. 120 with full guard bar. That's the reason why Eddie was the best despite being the most nerfed character from XX to #R and why stunning was mad easy in #R thanks to the guard bar mechanic.)

There are 3 mechanics to prevent infinites in every GG games since XX. Hitstun decay, gravity and pushback.

Gravity and pushback are based on hitcount.

Hitstun decay is based on a timer. Hitstun decay DOES NOT affect ground hit hence why infinites in GG only concern grounded opponent (Zappa is the only character to have at least one infinite in every versions. Can also mention Bridget that had one thanks to cS and yoyo and Jam's IAD infinites in #R on Potemkin standing only. Forgot which version for Bridget but I think it was #R too.)
Xrd only: Timer is NOT TOTALLY affected by slowdown caused by RCs

For all the tests below, the result will be the same with maxed out guard bar or not.

Gravity testing:

Here are two easy tests to figure it out using both specific supers that add a lot of hits that allow to combo afterwards.

First test: Chipp's 236236K

Do 2D>RC>6H
Notice how the opponent bounce then fall.

Do then 2D>236236K>RC the last hit(36th hit)>land>6H
Do the 6H AFTER the slowdown or you won't even get the ground bounce. If you did it right, you will get a knockdown after the bounce.
Notice how the opponent will bounce lower and fall like a rock.

Second test: Ramlethal's Toranshi in the corner.

Do 5K4K with Ramlethal in the corner. Notice how they float and fall.

Do then Toranshi>5K4K (careful to not hit them OTG)
Same thing as before, they will float lower and fall faster.

There is a third test that provides plenty of examples using Elphelt's UB loop in normal stance but it requires character specifics explanations and is kinda long. I'll explain if someone want more tests.

Pushback tests:

Test using Elphelt:

On a crouching opponent midscreen (can be done in the corner too but you notice it easier midscreen. Works well on Sol),
Do (dash cS>fS>2H>RC) x3
Maxed out guard bar will make 2H launches so reduce it slightly if you want to test it with guard bar tweaks.
Notice how with 12 hits, the pushback is slightly bigger than with 4 hits.

Do then dash (2P>2P>2P>cS>fS>2H>RC)x3
Notice how big the pushback becomes indicating that the hitcounts is actually a multiplier to the pushback formula.

Again, Elphelt's UB loop can be used as another test that also shows how pushback affect also air hits. Will explain if people want to.

Hitstun decay tests:

Test using Elphelt's SG-S link:
If your execution is rather poor, I would suggest you to skip this test (second test is easier) as Elphelt's SG-S link is a tight (but worth it) link that requires doing SG-S as soon as you get the power-up meaning that input buffer will NOT help you making it an old school link (Manly HnK players will do it just fine though).
More information here (Also, the damage value concerns 1.0. Still huge damage in 1.1 thoug.h 1.1 damage comparison on SG loops is here )

SG-D>[walk slightly>Powered SG-H>46H]x2>Powered SG-S
The SG-S link here works just fine
Adding however a THIRD Powered SG-H makes it impossible.
It appears that after around 4 seconds, SG-S link can't be done anymore.
With maxed guard bar, same result. SG-S link is stil impossible after 4 seconds.
No matter what the starter is, that 4 second rules seem to be absolute.

Test using Chipp's corner combo:

Much easier than previous example.
Chipp's key part of his tensionless corner combos concern jD>j236P
If he can land that in the corner, his knockdown and vortex is guaranteed.
Most basic corner combo is:
cS>6P>cS>2D>236S>623H>jD>j236P>46~P (155 dmg on Sol)

Thing is that like SG-S link, jD>j236P won't combo once hitstun decay kicks in.
Therefore, just doing dash cS>6P>cS>6P>2D>236S>623H>jD>j236P
Result in j236P whiffing
Again, exactly like SG-S link, after 4 seconds, the combo becomes impossible.

To prove that hitcounts doesn't matter, here's a combo with the same hitcount as cS>6P>cS>2D>corner combo but it won't work due to being slower
On a crouching opponent:
dash cS> link cS>link cS>2D>236S>623H>jD>j236P drops
cS>link cS is a one frame link. Because of the link, jD is done after 4 seconds making j236P whiff.

Meanwhile, like with Elphelt's fS>2H, both the latter and Chipp's cS>link cS will whiff if any hitstun decay kick in proving that hitstun decay does NOT affect grounded opponent with the following combo:
dash cS>cS>cS>RC>dash cS>cS>cS>RC>dash cS>cS>cS
(9 one frame link in a row. 50 bucks for anyone pulling it off in a tournament)

Also, Chipp's cS>dash cS is impossible proving that microdashing (during recovery for instance) and hitting CANNOT be done on the same frame.
Yes, some people said it was possible before.

Test using Chipp for long combos:
This test requires using Sol as it contains character specific. Works on other characters too while others require small delays or removing a specific jP. Just stick with Sol as it's pretty easy as long as you do everything fast.
The air combo to do max damage on opponents with low health is something like:
...>jK(2)>jK(1)>jS>djP>jP>jP>jK(2)>jK(1)>jS>tjP>jP>jP>jK(2)>jK(1)>ender

A combo midscreen using jump installs as a punish would look like:
...>cS>8>2H>22S>jK(2)>jK(1)>jS>djP>jP>jP>jK(2)>jK(1)>jS>tjP>jP>jP>jK(2)>jK(1)>ender

Which works.
The best ender to get damage while using tension is: jS>Kunai super>land>dash cS>5H>236236K (230 dmg on Sol with full health. Will kill him if he got 28% health or lower)
Again, midscreen, it works too.

The longest and most damaging combo Chipp got requires using the air combo I mentionned along with jD>j236P
On a cS starter, it will look like:
cS>6P>cS>2D>236S>623H>jD>j236P>46~delay 4>jK(1)>jK(1)>jS>djP>jP>jP>jK(2)>(delay) jK(1)>jS>tjP>jP>jP>jK(2)>jK(1)>ender
Except that here, the last jK(1)>jS will result in jS dropping.
Ths prove that even after the 4 second limit, hitstun decay keep increasing after set intervals.
If you wonder how to get kunai super afterwards btw, the ender is jK(2)>jD>Kunai Super>etc (Kill Sol if he got 37% heath or less)
Due to the increased gravity, Lots of kunai will hit after jD while it's generally just 5 of them on much shorter combos.

TLDR:
Hitstun decay is based on a timer.
Gravity and pushback are based on hitcounts.
Guardbar only affect damage scaling and got nothing to do with hitstun decay.
Hitstun decay kicks in after 4 seconds IG and keeps increasing afterwards. How much and at which interval is unknown.
You can't microdash and attack on the same frame.
Chipp's optimized combos got longer. AGAIN. Less character specifics though thank god.


~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'll post my thoughts concerning points that were adressed about balance either later today or tomorrow as some requires rather lengthy replies like why Faust can FD cancel his j2K and use it for IOH setups while other characters like Chipp and May can't.

 

Edited September 11, 2015 by Magaki

[Zouf]

Let Ky get an okizeme after an air combo, that's all i'm asking. Character is fine as a whole.

[Tong]

No longer see the point for this thread, but @Magaki's post was interesting.

Edited September 11, 2015 by Tong

[Liexi]

Let Ky get an okizeme after an air combo, that's all i'm asking. Character is fine as a whole.

#BringBackLightningJavelin

[huber]

Eddies big weakness is the shadow dies when hit once. No other character dies in one attack so how about we let it take more hits to kill. Like Nana of the Ice Climbers! Also my friend Daigo would like air gun flame please listen to me

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

[Solid Gold Wall]

"you can't draw, so you can't critique"

mmm i don't think game balancing is really an art though, it's more like a science. maybe try "you don't know anatomy, so you can't be a surgeon"

anyway for potemkin, i think all he needs is for heat knuckle to give a knockdown right in front of him, but one that doesn't give him enough time to set up a trishula YRC. it's a place to start at least.

Edited September 11, 2015 by Solid Gold Wall

[Blade]

This thread looks to be about as productive as my "Justice in GGXrd" thread was apparently.  Tried to revise what I think should be her movelist which was crapped on in +R, but it didn't work out and nobody agreed and everyone hates bosses.

[Sol Badguy Z AC]

Kinda busy today guys, but I'll address stuff eventually.

[4r5]

I tell Steve H that an Air Greed Sever is stupid, every time he suggests it.