Suggested Tweaks and Oversights

[Nobus3r1]

I tell Steve H that an Air Greed Sever is stupid, every time he suggests it.

We should also probably tell him that it's not a good idea to use his arcade stick as a stool as that is, in all likelihood, a contributing factor for him breaking so many cases.

[huber]

No doctor should wield donuts. They are unhealthy! I suggest that faust throws apples. They are also solid enough to have a hit box.

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[j1n[kr]]

tweaks huh?
they should make Elphelt's c.S a command normal.
how about letting Elphelt jump in Shotgun Stance
how about Elphelt being able to do underhand pineberry toss while jumping
how about Elphelt's 6H YRC point is the entire move 
trololololololol
 

[Blade]

I tell Steve H that an Air Greed Sever is stupid, every time he suggests it.

As someone who has played Ky for years, I can say that Ky once had a Mid-air Crescent Slash in GGXPlus.

It could cancel into itself over and over and was broken (basically Ky's version of GG1Baiken's Youzansen).

I don't see that happening for Greed Sever, as once its active frames are spent, he's vulnerable all the wayyyy down.

So yeah, Steve H doesn't know what he's talking about or is drunk.  And SBZ listening to his rambling is not unexpected, but still I am sad that he thinks these words are important.

[MoralHazardPay]

As someone who has played Ky for years, I can say that Ky once had a Mid-air Crescent Slash in GGXPlus.

It could cancel into itself over and over and was broken (basically Ky's version of GG1Baiken's Youzansen).

I don't see that happening for Greed Sever, as once its active frames are spent, he's vulnerable all the wayyyy down.

So yeah, Steve H doesn't know what he's talking about or is drunk.  And SBZ listening to his rambling is not unexpected, but still I am sad that he thinks these words are important.

It's Steve H; that shit's said in good humor, not as a proclamation from on high.

The air greed sever maaaaaay be my fault though, as I asked him if Ky had one when I was just starting Xrd. If it goes back earlier than that it's probably just a common thing to ask after getting your ass whooped by his Ky

[Blade]

If you've ever actually wondered what moves characters "used to have" but ended up not using or had scrapped, just play EX Mode, it's chock full of GG Movelist history.

[Sol Badguy Z AC]

Ryyudo

Sorry man.  It works pretty well for me.  I'll try to summarize more than piece-by-piece.

It’s more my posting style and how the interface works.  When quoting, I can’t simply highlight and press the quote button and label it as “this user said this”, and there’s a bunch of glitches where I can’t press enter to go to the next line, can’t bold, can’t unbold, can’t type before it, can’t type after it (sometimes the red line with the arrow that you have to click on to go to the next line doesn’t show), etc.  Since I stopped using the quote system, I've saved massive amounts of time.

 

Yes, I'm not disagreeing he GETS shenanigans off his Drill Cancel, I'm more on the point of once he gets to a safe point of using it, he gets 1 or 2, MAYBE 3, chances at, possibly disrespect-able, mix ups.

That’s quite a bit, even for this low damage output you faust players claim he has.

If you don't WANT to block, that's your prerogative and your playstyle.  That's fine.  Just consider that you're taking away one of the game's options for you to use, instead of directly blaming the character for clashing directly with your playstyle.  The only reason I can think of Faust players keeping other players locking the corner for "longer" is because Faust needs that many more combos/opportunities to kill.

Okay, let me clear that up.  I mean I don’t want to continuously sit there blocking his shit.  As one once said about how to fight Sol in a youtube video, the longer they get away with their bullshit, the worse it’s going to be for you.  So regardless of his bad damage output, he’s definitely going to get it what with his ability to keep you in the corner far longer than say, anyone other than Zato and Elphelt. 

 

I see a lot of "deserve buttwhooping" and "getting full punish".  I don't believe that's the proper way to handle Faust; Faust is just not that kind of character.  He's a character who focuses on control (over the screen, locking down, etc.)  Hitting him proper, even if it's not a full punish, is taking that control away.  Your taking Faust's strongest and major gameplan away from him and it becomes easier to run ship on him.  Once you start running ship too, it's harder for him to get out.  Faust doesn't have as mashable moves during gaps, so it requires good defense and decision making to get out instead of using a 3-4f jab to abuse gaps.  Things such as Dust (YRC) (still don't agree this is an "anti-air" as it doesn't discourage someone from being in the air, but that's just semantics at this point as I see where you're coming from now), particular pokes in response to jumps or IBing into a quick poke, etc. all require a level of precision and thus difficulty.  It's not free outs or easy, they're just options that are good in particular situations, just like the rest of his moveset.  I still say his defense is weaker, not just because of his defense/guts level, but because it requires blocking and knowing options/spacing to get out of a bad situation.  A bad situation that could lead to some hiiiigh damage against Faust.

 Well then you and me need to trade video suggestions then.  I don’t particularly seek out Nage faust videos, but his ass always seems to be the one in every video I’m watching.  I currently watch Acho, Goldenrody, and Mikado for GGXrd matches.  I’ve recently watched a Karinchu get bodied a few times against Faust, and see that it seems a little unfair that Karinchu’s Johnny was down by half life after less than 10 seconds into a particular round.  This seems to be a common trend in most Faust’s matchups - that he eats away at the opponent's lifebar little by little, but still fairly quickly - but I haven’t seen a matchup chart anywhere to find ANY of his elusive (to me) bad matchups.  So help me out with some Faust vids, will ya?  I want to see him take flak as much as you say he does (or can).  Don’t get me wrong, I never thought he was the best character in the game, I simply think he’s full of shit.  Especially because of things like meteor, bomb and little faust.  The first two gives him the damage he’s looking for and Mini-me gives him almost endless command throw setups as long as he’s trotting along.

You're right about his items: The good outweigh the bad.  Otherwise this move wouldn't be useful (of course).  And yes, his moves are meant to keep you in the zones of the items while he stays away safely.  Still, it seems like the issue here is respecting Faust's abilities.  You dislike how he can punish people jumping in.  Just like in Street Fighter: don't jump.  Especially since this game has a lot more movement options than SF: running with FD braking, FD blocking in air if you think the Faust will try to AA, divekicking an AA attempt, heck even moves that move you forward with a low-profile like Grand Viper or the Ky Slip 'N Slide (glad you like this name :>) makes Faust have to react or guess to what you're doing.  Faust still has a game to play out, it's not JUST willy-nilly "whatever just throw out this move because it's awesome."

 And that’s the problem.  His item toss is less of a gamble than what you make it out to be.  And with all manner of fuckery on the ground to obscure you, telling someone not to jump is almost akin to saying “lols, don’t fight back :P “.  At some point it’s a necessity. 

You'd be correct in "honest" means "not full of bullshit".  Because he's not.  He has tricks and everything, but he doesn't net ridiculous damage from a single mistake, his moves are straightforward for the most part and often can be handled one-at-a-time (more pokes, less up-close pressure), little in the way of ridiculous mixups or truly forcing an opponent to block (Zato/Millia).  Hard to see != forced to respect, especially in the same way you would for Zato/Millia/Elphelt's (for some characters). Just as every Faust poke is used to counter something, each poke has its own shortcomings that can be countered too.  Of course, it's not easy (that's the point), but a mistake with a small punish usually turns into a lack of control for Faust.  That's where other characters really do a lot more of what they want, but they still gotta do it well or intelligently.  Knockdown, like pretty much all characters in this game, is where Faust's game of control really starts.  

 Okay okay….  Hmmm.  Though I don’t think I’ll ever see him as not full of shit.  I was okay with him back in the early GG days all the way up to Slash, and then AC seems to be where I think I started hating him more.  Before AC, I’m pretty sure his damage output was better back then, but then again, everyone’s was, so I didn’t care.

 (btw, 2P, 2D doesn't combo, even on CH.  Don't fear it super badly from max range, it's a tool to keep opponents in check and to keep them out quickly, not just to combo even if it can from close range.  Otherwise it's just a frame trap/a way for Faust to get his control game started as 2D is jump and special cancel-able)

Good to know, thanks. 

Also, without going too much into it as you're not sure of the version; it sounds like you're talking about BlazBlue Continuum Shift where Rachel did jack for damage but still had decent wind gimmicks.

It was definitely one of the Chrono Phantasma’s (since balance patches come out now, I kinda refer to them as reiterations or stand alone games despite the fact that they’re not).  Ragna takes at least 3 and a ½ (maybe) combos to kill most characters in that game, and despite having a higher damage output than her, she ran train on him with her instant overhead bullshit and her 93 chances at rushdown where no answer he had was safe for dealing with her.  It was a massacre worse than the Texas Chainsaw.

 

Edited September 13, 2015 by Sol Badguy Z AC

[JacerX]

so...whens potemkin getting vacuum on 2S?

[SlothFacts]

Cancelling Kickstart My Heart into Yo-yo sure would've been appreciated though...

They added that in Plus R! (Unless that's the joke in which case I'm dumb, forgive me.)

Also his DP's not as circular as it might seem. There's not much hitbox behind him. Still the god DP, though.

[Pichy]

Snip
 

I apologise. I was running on my own observations and research. They were wrong.

[j1n[kr]]

this is why I only drink and shitpost on dustloop

[Blade]

To be fair, I was generalizing on how people feel about stuff they may not always understand.

Suffice to say that ARC System Works has a reason for any changes they make to characters in any roster of any fighting game they've ever made.

Even if we might disagree there's still a reason for them doing stuff in lots of cases.

[Pichy]

They added that in Plus R! (Unless that's the joke in which case I'm dumb, forgive me.)

EX Bridget can cancel KSMH at any point into Yo-yo placement. It's pretty great.

[Naka]

I know this thread is for discussion all along, and I do have fun discuss things sometimes. I just want to discuss the part that I find more interesting.

If you really want to affect the character change somehow, better discuss it with a Japanese player who goes to loke test or send mail directly to ASW. Here in dustloop we mostly do this to satisfy our hunger for discussing. Or at least it's me and the way I read people's posts.

Yesterday I played round robins 3on3 and lost to a Potemkin I usually win with the rate 7-3 yet won against a Sin I don't have much experience with except a loss in a FT5 series. Even as a bottom tier character, Xrd Potemkin must be the best of all bottom characters since forever. The game is really well balanced, it makes more sense now to complain for your own satisfaction than discussing seriously. Because we don't even have enough knowledge in game to make a good suggestion anyway. So let's just complain, but make it civiled I guess.

Edited September 15, 2015 by Naka

[mAceOfHearts]

The issue with making a thread about how we think the game should change is that very few of us - if any - are even remotely close to being knowledgeable about these things. We'll just end posting stuff like "Man, Sin deals way too much damage! His specials shouldn't cancel into each other!", which accomplishes nothing and just ends up with people getting mad at each other. Believe it or not, but the company that's been making this series for years on end actually does know what it's doing.

I'm not a big fan of fighting Faust either, but rather than going "This character is way too strong!", I go "What am I doing wrong in this match-up?".

The game isn't what needs to change. You are. Figure out how to counter Faust's stuff. It's not easy, true, but you just have to deal with that like everyone else.

[FinalDoomGuy]

The crazy thing is he's not even playing someone weaker like 1.0 Bedman where I could at least understand why someone might feel a bit helpless or weak. It's Xrd Sol, only below Millia and Zato on a really tight tierlist. He's named after and mained a really strong character, asked for buffs with little understanding of frame data while assuming that Rev changed/nerfed him (Rev made no character changes until like 1 or 2 days ago with the Jam release/loketest) and then pointed at someone on the same tier and asked for nerfs.

Now we're posting AIM chats? Will I go and get on Bebo and post the chat where my pal says that Fanny needs YRC and a Syringe Install? 

(tbh ky getting an install would be fucking sweet but ssssh)

[huber]

I'm a genius its okay you can say it

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