BadenCalendula Posted November 1, 2009 Posted November 1, 2009 From the 10/31-11/1 loke test... Rachel: 5B＞5C＞follow up C＞frog＞3C/2B5B＞A lobelia＞6C＞JC2D>air iris＞land＞JB＞JC＞JB＞JC＞A lobelia for 3500 5B＞5C＞follow up C＞B cannon＞air dash＞JB＞JC＞air iris＞land＞JC＞JC＞A lobelia for 3000 level 3 j2C damage is 2000, no properties changed. Air Iris should be fun to use~ j2C still useless...
ryokoalways Posted November 1, 2009 Posted November 1, 2009 Allow me to clarify j2C. j2C is useless as a level 1 move now (still good if you just need one more hit to win), but level 2 and level 3 both still have uses. In loc test 4, heartnana mentioned that rachel players told him overhead option is still viable, but it's just no longer spammable because you need level 2 and wind to pull it off. Level 3 is still super untechable (what I meant by no property change), and should be good as a combo link. I think the consensus is that j2C is still a good move, just no longer a S-tier move.
Tari Posted November 2, 2009 Posted November 2, 2009 Allow me to clarify j2C. j2C is useless as a level 1 move now (still good if you just need one more hit to win), but level 2 and level 3 both still have uses. In loc test 4, heartnana mentioned that rachel players told him overhead option is still viable, but it's just no longer spammable because you need level 2 and wind to pull it off. Level 3 is still super untechable (what I meant by no property change), and should be good as a combo link. I think the consensus is that j2C is still a good move, just no longer a S-tier move. Yeah, from the sounds of it, the combos that rely on j.2c level 3 -> frog are still in (though we may need to insert something inbetween, because of the frog timer). That's pretty nice. I don't use the level 2 j.2c launch very much, though. Guess I should get on that.
Spirit Juice Posted November 2, 2009 Posted November 2, 2009 Although it's still early, I think Rachel will probably fall under B tier status once CS evolves. :3
Tari Posted November 2, 2009 Posted November 2, 2009 Although it's still early, I think Rachel will probably fall under B tier status once CS evolves. :3 As long as she doesn't fall to unplayable (which she pretty obviously won't), I'm still going to play as her. Can't... resist... loli-vampire powers.
Konton Posted November 2, 2009 Posted November 2, 2009 Well at least her damage is still decent. Noel can't even break 3k easily as is.
God_Of_Olympus Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 Well at least her damage is still decent. Noel can't even break 3k easily as is. her DD got a major dmg nerf and in one video it was super prorated by something, which some think it could be her also dmg nerfed frog....i guess her dmg is decent but it's certaintly less....although i've caught a few ppl in a 3 pole +me BBL combo (VERY rare) and that thing does MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAJOOOOOOR dmg i caught this my haku friend in BBL while he was iAD'ing and it did almost half life.....so i dont think her nerfs are anything to complain about, most were reasonable and in some cases needed, i'm happ w/ the new funner rachel, confused on how nu and ara didn't get run over by the nerf-mobile, bugs should be air blockable EDIT: looks like Rachel is less frog oki and pressure shenanigans and more zoning anti-air, air iris shenanigans....ryokalways do you think you could tell us rachel's here how she works in CS we've been taking things w/ a grain of salt fom the begining, and i'm sure we'd all just like to know more on ho she plays so far
Tari Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 her DD got a major dmg nerf and in one video it was super prorated by something, which some think it could be her also dmg nerfed frog....i guess her dmg is decent but it's certaintly less....although i've caught a few ppl in a 3 pole +me BBL combo (VERY rare) and that thing does MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAJOOOOOOR dmg i caught this my haku friend in BBL while he was iAD'ing and it did almost half life.....so i dont think her nerfs are anything to complain about, most were reasonable and in some cases needed, i'm happ w/ the new funner rachel, confused on how nu and ara didn't get run over by the nerf-mobile, bugs should be air blockable EDIT: looks like Rachel is less frog oki and pressure shenanigans and more zoning anti-air, air iris shenanigans....ryokalways do you think you could tell us rachel's here how she works in CS we've been taking things w/ a grain of salt fom the begining, and i'm sure we'd all just like to know more on ho she plays so far It's not too difficult to combo into the super without frogging your opponent, so if George was the major source of the prorated damage, at least we can get around him. I've not landed a three-pole super on very many people, and it's pretty impractical to try to set one up. Two-pole supers with and without yourself standing next to them are fairly common, though. Takes a little more setup (often at the cost of a frog combo, personally), but does a nice bit of damage. My personal favourite is the pole BBL followed by 6a and a melee BBL (don't ask why I have a hundred meter lying around so often... ). Probably won't do any significant damage in the new game, though, if BBL's damage drops off that much when prorated.
kro_ Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 If you manage to frog combo into BBL, enough time should pass so that you can still get forced knockdown + frog oki hopefully. So frog oki still exists but only after a super that does less dmg. As for the lvl 2 j.2c being useful, I'd say it's more useful as a crossup than as an overhead. Those far jump 6d/3d j.2c's are very obviously overheads, but it can be ambiguous which way the opponent will need to block. It can also catch people who think their anti-air attacks can beat Rachel's j.2c. Nothing was changed to alter its hitbox and priority right? If it hits, there should be enough time to 5b and do a simple air combo due to the bounce. Still a fairly stupid risk to take without meter though, especially without jump cancels. One thing has been bugging me. Can you end an air combo with j.2c and then cancel into pumpkin summon when you touch the ground? I know you can do 236a. And do the same rules apply on block, or can you not do anything even after landing? If Rachel's lvl2/3 j.2c break 2 guard primer, then it might be worthwhile just to go for that under frog/pumpkin cover. Or maybe even just RC it.
ryokoalways Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 I think there was some sort of frame data change for how high you need to be to reach level 2. Don't quote me yet though. It may not be 50/50 anymore, but JP players did say that it's still an overhead option, so I don't think it's going to be one of those things that will only hit people if they are not paying attention.
kro_ Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 I hope it's possible to do j.3dc 236a > wind pumpkin forward > link to 5b.
God_Of_Olympus Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 i never found a use for lvl 2 and 3 outside combos but i guess it'll be a good guard crush move if you manage to catch them w/ a frog
Tari Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 I hope it's possible to do j.3dc 236a > wind pumpkin forward > link to 5b. Not sure if you'd be able to link to 5b, range-wise. 236a + pumpkin seems like it'd shove them a bit too far away? Though, I suppose this is testable in the current game, since you can cancel j.3dc into 236a in CT, anyway. I'm tempted to play around with 4b a bit, now, too. On an unrelated note, I keep getting confused when I see your and Olympus's avatars, haha.
God_Of_Olympus Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 4B honestly doesn't look much faster, then again from the changes it's obvious they didn't wanna buff her pressure much...if at all.......it's weird what they're doing with some of the characters...it's like ok, don't pressure as much.....but don't zone alot becuase your recovery and range got worse....i guess they just want a less OP zoning/pressure rachel still, from the looks of it she'll be doing arial stuuff more and SW before lobelia forms is cool but w/ the longer recovery time who knows how useful that'll be
Tari Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 4B honestly doesn't look much faster, then again from the changes it's obvious they didn't wanna buff her pressure much...if at all.......it's weird what they're doing with some of the characters...it's like ok, don't pressure as much.....but don't zone alot becuase your recovery and range got worse....i guess they just want a less OP zoning/pressure rachel still, from the looks of it she'll be doing arial stuuff more and SW before lobelia forms is cool but w/ the longer recovery time who knows how useful that'll be I feel like I might use the A lobelia a bit more than I do now, since it's got a faster recovery and a safer ground use than the other two. Her 4b is already a viable overhead, it's just... not as effective as her other options. I wish it had gotten notably faster, though.
God_Of_Olympus Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 anyone know how much the block stun on pumpkin got nerfed??
Xtra_Zero Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 I feel like I might use the A lobelia a bit more than I do now, since it's got a faster recovery and a safer ground use than the other two. Wait A Lobelia is faster?!!!?
kro_ Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 Not sure if you'd be able to link to 5b, range-wise. 236a + pumpkin seems like it'd shove them a bit too far away? Though, I suppose this is testable in the current game, since you can cancel j.3dc into 236a in CT, anyway. I'm tempted to play around with 4b a bit, now, too. On an unrelated note, I keep getting confused when I see your and Olympus's avatars, haha. Oh it's definitely possible in CT. And if it's not possible in CS due to shorter pumpkin hitstun, then it's still a good opportunity for a mixup. Her new 4b does seem faster. Similar to Ragna's 6b I think. I cropped and re-sized the original image for the avatar myself. The fact that his image has the exact same proportions and size is very suspicious
Tari Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 Wait A Lobelia is faster?!!!? You know... that's a good question for people with the frame data. I don't really memorize that stuff, so perhaps I should say that it feels faster, quite possibly because it winds along the ground and most ground approaches get stalled by it. Apologies if I jumped the gun on that. Edit: Went and double-checked the frame data, and yes, 236a has less recovery and frames overall. If you thought I meant it was faster in CS than in CT... sorry. Oh it's definitely possible in CT. And if it's not possible in CS due to shorter pumpkin hitstun, then it's still a good opportunity for a mixup. Her new 4b does seem faster. Similar to Ragna's 6b I think. I cropped and re-sized the original image for the avatar myself. The fact that his image has the exact same proportions and size is very suspicious Ragna's 6b is the entire reason I think 4b is a viable mixup option. It's slow, but it still makes contact enough of the time, because it's fast enough. And hah, that just shows how awesome an avatar it is.
Spirit Juice Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 The thing is with Ragna's 6B is that he actually has a good pressure game, making it easier to randomly throw out in a block string to catch people off guard. Rachel's 4B in CS seems to be a few frames faster, probably around 23-24 frames now (old one is 28 I think), but her pressure game in CS is probably quite below average. We'll see though.
Skye Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 Perhaps the first things you guys should try to experiment with is her airborne Sword Iris, I think it has potential.
BadenCalendula Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 Perhaps the first things you guys should try to experiment with is her airborne Sword Iris, I think it has potential. Of, course. I have a feeling it's going to be spammed like no other.
Kuuhaku Posted November 5, 2009 Posted November 5, 2009 Though I thought it was weird they made 5B 6C not link anymore, but then went ahead and buffed 6C. Arcsys, make sense please? It'd be really nice if 6C prorated less. >_>
Tari Posted November 5, 2009 Posted November 5, 2009 Though I thought it was weird they made 5B 6C not link anymore, but then went ahead and buffed 6C. Arcsys, make sense please? It'd be really nice if 6C prorated less. >_> I don't remember reading that 5b->6cd didn't work anymore. Any chance you could link me? It's somewhat difficult to find that info in the pile of news.
Kuuhaku Posted November 5, 2009 Posted November 5, 2009 Uh... yeah. I'll go dig for it. Though I don't remember where I read it. Probably in the loketest changes thread.
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