[CS1] Iron Tager vs. Hazama

[Galt]

Block a lot in this match, it can get really frustrating. You can't really sledge or stick something out pre-preemptively when your not close to him. Jump D, down C, forward a, or collider when he's above you. When you see him get into his stance up close back d him. It's kind of annoying but it's like Pot playing against Axel in GG, just wait for your opportunity to kill him.

[Dusty]

Hazama player looking to practice his Tager match up, please PM me or send me a message on PSN I will be online all day.

PSN: BigDaddyDusty

Sorry if this is in the wrong place if so could some direct me to the right thread?

[mAc Chaos]

So how winnable is this matchup? Looks like Haz can just fly around across the screen until he gets a CH until he wins or time out.

[evilben]

^ QFT when ive played them (not very much yet really) a commonality has been get a lead and play keep away till times up... really annoying. and with that stupid chain you can punish them for jumping because snake chain > science

the only luck ive had when they started doing this is get into mind games, a friend of mine plays jin and uses ice car way to much to get out of corners, i got into the habit of jump blocking his ice cars for fun (really good idea anyway) and ive kinda used this against hazamas. if you block the chain they cant go too far past you. just approach and try to keep them from getting over you.

[DxClow]

I sorta play Haz and I did play him agaisnt Tager before, but im not sure if this will help...

DO NOT LET HAZ JUMP. Haz has options when he uses (super)j.6D. He can go behind you, directly in front of you while in the air, or do this crazy circle using the end of ouroboros as a fulcrum... I find that Tager has more options while Haz is using his ouroboros. While haz is in the air, try to backdash through his overhead j.5B or his j.2C. I find this more effective than IBing for some reason unless you are IBing the ouroboros (backdashing ouro is not a great idea since he can retract and do it again), or it might just be me. If you manage to backdash his ouroboros followup (j.5B or j.2C) it will now depend if he directly goes to 3C (in this case, try to j.5B with Tager if that is humanly possible for you, or try to 360A it. No matter What you do, your first priority if he tries for 3C is to NOT GET HIT BY IT. This is because almost all of his BnB combo starters start with a 3C) or if he pokes with 5.b. 5b is dangerous because you won't be able to backdash punish it, and I am pretty sure it is jump cancelable, not to sure tho... But in this case, 360A works really well. If he lands and tries for any C move, just punish with 360A, 720 (if you can get if out fast enough) and backdashing 2D works sometimes, but I don't recommend it.

Also, once Haz is in, try to not let him run away. I noticed his close game is very weak without an ouroboros startup since he does not have a good dash and the startup on most of his moves are really slow if he doesn't stun you and get in with ouro. If he is magnetized after a failed ouro and tries to run, 8/10 times he will jump and backdash, and you can collider him for it.

Jayoku is really great for Haz :P I use it all the time in the middle of a faulty blockstring, on wakeup, or when other players airdash towards me to try and get in :D Tager has to be patient in this case. Tager should try to refrain from jumping because he can zone out the air with ouro. if he grabs you with the ouro and launches you to the wall then you are about to eat a serpents coil (50 heat tho).

In the end, Tager should just be patient and wait for his chance when Haz ouros or screws up on an opening. If you want to play offensive you are most likely going to get hit and that wont help your situation. Not a very great matchup for tager tho. I haven't played any amazingly great Hazamas with Tager yet. Im safe ^.^

Edit: my bad when he gets in with ouro and you block everything and he tries to run away punish that, and if he tries to zone with ouro you can use SLEDGE! just remembered..... :/ so if he tries to j.6D you can b or a sledge doesn't matter, this makes things more interesting because if he tries to get in like that, the more he does it, the more you will be able to get closer to him!

[kinker]

as a hazama main myself, i can give a little insight.

most decent hazamas will usually never chain in on block and usually only do on CH(at midscreen)or if they're at the opposite edge of you(hitstun for his drive increases with distance), where they have a guaranteed combo.

if a hazama is using drive to run away, they wont always wait until max snake range to jump out because its not necessary. he can do 4D and then press D almost right after and itll give him enough momentum to go all the way across the screen. another thing they might do is 2D~D (makes him fly straight up) and then use another chain to whip him across the stage with increased safety (height). this will burn both his ourosboros stocks though, which means he cant use D~D, D~B or D~C until they regen (2 seconds while grounded). this would probably be the optimal time to trap him as his only mobility advantage is pretty much shot and his only drive moves available are D~A, 236D, 623D (be careful with jump ins) and his D stance moves.

[DoomieJ]

If he drives to you on block, thats a free CH 2A combo, or if you are daring and have the timing, a FC 2C combo. Thats all ive gotten out of this matchup besides the fact that if i bait DPs or supers, im getting a GETB in there.

[Sponson]

Does a 720 buffered during Hotenjin's superflash go off?

I had a match today where I 720'd after Houtenjin flashed. I don't know if I buffered during the flash or before it. I ask because I usually eat the Houtenjin.

[A.X.I.S.]

you can buffer 720 during hotengin and it will beat it normally.

[natearistata]

Oh god, knowing that 2A will beat out a blocked ouroborus is going to make this so much better for me.

[DoomieJ]

If your 720 flashes after his super flashes, than you win. If he flashes after you, you lose.

Im 90% sure i won a match like that last tourney actually. Your invincibility just has to be timed to end after his does.

[Leo7]

Actually, if your 720 flashes before his super flash, you still win.

Hotenjin has 6 frames of invincibility up till the super flash, and after the super flash it has 1 frame where it's not active and has no invincibility (this is why you see it trade with moves sometimes). If he does a Hotenjin in response to your 720 and you hold down your C button, he'll just get caught in the 720 due to that 1 non-invincible start-up frame.

Example from an old vid of me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZKh3JWRC7Y#t=2m28s

[ZhePrime]

Only thing Hazama has (that's done from the ground) that beats 720 (and 360's) is his Bloody Fang (236C) command grab, if timed properly.

[Sponson]

Finally fought some Hazamas that ran the clock down. Luckily one of them sucked.

Chasing him down is the worst thing ever D:

[ZhePrime]

That shit blew my fucking mind when that happened.

Saw a match where a Tager delayed a 720 after a Gadget Finger and the Hazama player did his 236C command crab, 5C, 3C into Astral and won.

Too bad I didn't have my camera nearby.

On that note, that's where the 236C command grab counter will usually happen, after a gadget finger if you delay your 720/360.

The reason why is because you're usually out of range with Hazama's command grab but if Hazama is magnetized he's pulled in by the 720/360 pull, evading your 720/360 with his invincibility and ends up grabbing you instead.

[Kal.]

If he drives to you on block, thats a free CH 2A combo, or if you are daring and have the timing, a FC 2C combo. Thats all ive gotten out of this matchup besides the fact that if i bait DPs or supers, im getting a GETB in there.

I've been having a lot of trouble with this matchup and knowing this will make it a lot easier I think, do you have to instant block the chain to get the 2a in?

[DoomieJ]

No, as soon as you see them pulling in after you normal block, throw it out there. You may have to delay it a bit if they take the longer chain pull road, but it will still work.

Like i said, if they do that, you may have enough time for a 2C, and if so, thats what i like to call big damage.

[komradekraig]

Like i said, if they do that, you may have enough time for a 2C, and if so, thats what i like to call big damage.

yeah. from max snake range on normal block you can 2C FC both ground and air approaches. I'll have to test the specifics though since I played one match where i had like 4 FCs and then the next one I got CH a bunch of times. FC combos are the new GETB in terms of satisfaction for me.

[Sponson]

Just yesterday I fought a Hazama who threw out a non-combo Mizuchi Rekkazan so I threw out a 360a whiff and avoided it. I should have jumped and avoided it but I panicked and everything went better than expected.

[Nobus3r1]

yeah. from max snake range on normal block you can 2C FC both ground and air approaches. I'll have to test the specifics though since I played one match where i had like 4 FCs and then the next one I got CH a bunch of times. FC combos are the new GETB in terms of satisfaction for me.

I dunno. It's going to take a lot to replace "Genesic...Emerald...Tager...Bu-*lost connection to opponent*".

[evilben]

"King... Of... [disconnect]" beats it any day of the week!

[Mike Z]

Just yesterday I fought a Hazama who threw out a non-combo Mizuchi Rekkazan

I am certain this has been mentioned, but you should be BSledging these if your opponent is dumb enough to do one.

[Sponson]

I am certain this has been mentioned, but you should be BSledging these if your opponent is dumb enough to do one.

Rekkazan is a pro...jectile...? No I don't think that has been mentioned.

Anyway, 6c-> 5d or 6c -> jd tech traps I just unfortunately learned don't work on Hazama without walking forward a bit, his aerial hitbox is dumb. Generally its not a problem but I get a little antsy when I do those and don't tend to walk forward.

Edit: Oh man I am lightyears away from gettin' good.

[Augxst]

well at the beginning I had trouble with that bastard hazama always losing by time up, drove me crazy. well anyways when hazama uses his chain and its blocked and if he pulls himself in backdashing and 360a or b tend to work most of the time but you cant do it to much cause then they'll start jumping on pull in. getting close to him is hard as you all know, J.c helps, just be careful of dp kick and if he does it when you come in through the air and block it and once you hit the floor backdash cause they tend to do 3c after dp kick. after backdash you could either slegde or jump again its up to you. after gadget finger its best most of the time to do 6a cause they mostly backdash and if they jump up or foward jump 6a will still make contact then 2c, if 2c hits then you know what to do but if does'nt its up to you. I tend to a.slegde, but if they have 50 heat most likely Serpent's Infernal Rapture(jayoku houtenjin) will come out, block and 720 or any of two 360s. some times they'll rapid after jayoku houtenjin and do 3c you could still do the 720 just press c a little bit later and you'll see it go right through 3c. well thats it hope this info helps.

[bigphil6561]

i like to bait their jayoku houtenjin, voltaic charge through it, then 360b or 720(they could rapid and jump back though, so sometimes ill put a ac in there if they have full meter). that usually turns the match around for me. most hazamas ive played tend to really rely on that move and after i do that, they get scared/mad/frustrated.