smooshman Posted March 5, 2010 Posted March 5, 2010 erhem.... after playing a real rachel in CT i have this to say: fuck you rachel, fuck your holiday friends, enjoy your tea time in CS, that is all thank you. had the same thought once as I was conpomplating how I was going to get out of midscreen lockdown and blocking pumpkins, lightning, frogs and cannon shots, while getting pushed back by wind... I couldn't get out so it was boring holding the entire match as I watched meter die, went in to danger, punished for trying anything... killed by chip damage sucks ass then I foughts some shitty vampires and felt better, and stopped caring.
Prototype909 Posted March 6, 2010 Posted March 6, 2010 Except for 6A? j.A for Jin can more often than one would think beat out a less than perfectly placed 6A.
Dacidbro Posted March 6, 2010 Posted March 6, 2010 ell oh fucking ell I said maybe, because what you said was really, really stupid if you do.
Henaki Posted March 6, 2010 Posted March 6, 2010 ah yes tell me more about being dumb, oh terrible bang player
smooshman Posted March 6, 2010 Posted March 6, 2010 ah yes tell me more about being dumb, oh terrible bang player let's not start this...
farranpoison Posted March 6, 2010 Posted March 6, 2010 Yeah, what happened to the nice, controlled and thoughtful discussions about characters' strengths and weaknesses that this thread is supposed to induce?
smooshman Posted March 6, 2010 Posted March 6, 2010 nobody's explained what makes Jin's matchup vs. Bang is so bad... I can understand maybe slight disadvantage... but 6.5-3.5 is really bad for Jin...
Marutambo Posted March 7, 2010 Posted March 7, 2010 The following is the opinion of a scrub It feels like Jin's mid-range air game is not as effective as in CT because j.B's too slow to beat Ragna's j.A. It might trade with Ragna's j.B if spaced correctly, but it feels like Ragna's j.B is slightly faster than Ragna's. j.C probably beats out most of Ragna's air attacks, but if he's a little bit below Jin, Ragna usually gets a CH. Jin's options on reversal aren't as good as before since CH623A has a lower damage cap than before (if I remember correctly), and larger recovery window, while CH623C has more recovery, making reversals more dangerous for a lower gain (not even talking about the difficulty of combing of off CH623C). While Jin's pressure is still decent, his mix-ups are still shit. And we can't forget the decreased firepower, either. Since Jin's reversal options are more punishable, Ragna can either bait and punish, or go straight for combos with high damage and/or heat gain (both options giving him heat and control of the match), while risking a small combo's worth of damage and losing control of the fight. Arguably a higher reward for Ragna if he guesses right than for Jin. Combine that with a free rapid after a couple of BE combos, Ragna can play it safe, wait for Jin to come, and reversal through pressure and RC if it's blocked. Or he can rush in and do high risk, high reward mixups, and RC if they are blocked. 40-60 seems plausible to me. Sorry if I mostly listed what Ragna has going for him, but it doesn't feel like Jin got anything new that improves his matchup vs. Ragna, except for new pressure methods and the corner loop. Then again, I'm just a scrub, so this is all probably bullshit anyway...
archling Posted March 7, 2010 Posted March 7, 2010 5-5 Noel tager matchup? Hellll nooooooooooooooooooo
Nakkiel Posted March 9, 2010 Posted March 9, 2010 j.A for Jin can more often than one would think beat out a less than perfectly placed 6A. Unless j.A hits body it can't as long as Ragna reacts. Which isn't hard. The only way Jin can safely beat AAs is with j.236D.
Spirit Juice Posted March 11, 2010 Posted March 11, 2010 A lot of people in this thread need to look at these charts (particularly ones from JBBS) objectively, rather than subjectively. Rather than thinking "they're wrong because I think this, this, and this" in regards to a match up, you should probably be thinking "they're right because..?". Let's be real here: America isn't on Japan's level and probably won't be close any time soon. Look at things objectively here.
toanenadiz Posted March 11, 2010 Posted March 11, 2010 Is the reason why the Bang and Lambda match-up so bad because of her nerfed 2C and 3C?
ZONG_one Posted March 11, 2010 Posted March 11, 2010 Is the reason why the Bang and Lambda match-up so bad because of her nerfed 2C and 3C? Lol, I doubt that. And her 3C is fine. So is her 2C, it was just never meant to be used for anti air. They want you to use 6A. I don't really know why it's so bad, but I think guard point has a lot of advantages, and not many disadvantages in this match, since Lambda's moves take so long to recover. May be a big part of it..
Antihippy Posted March 12, 2010 Posted March 12, 2010 Well, her matchup with him in CT were pretty even to begin with. Other than taokaka he's probably one of the easiest get in on her with, seeing that he has A and D nails. Plus his pressure game is good, something nu/lambda has trouble with. Nu is even because she can out damage him pretty easily, and her mobility was okay, plus 2C was pretty good at keeping him from just IADing pressure all the time. Now they gave him faster D's, while nerfing lambda's mobility and damage so that their damage output are pretty even now, and nerf 2C so it's not as easy deterring his air pressure game. It's just not easy for lambda at all to get out of his pressure game.
rei-Scarred Posted March 18, 2010 Posted March 18, 2010 Well, I don't personally see anything wrong with the list. Only thing that looks a little funny is Jin's placement. I don't see japanese jins lose almost ever unless its bang litchi or ragna, but I don't know much about his CT->CS changes.
A.X.I.S. Posted March 18, 2010 Posted March 18, 2010 Well, I don't personally see anything wrong with the list. Only thing that looks a little funny is Jin's placement. I don't see japanese jins lose almost ever unless its bang litchi or ragna, but I don't know much about his CT->CS changes. 1. do your research. 2. its ALOT of fights not posted online.
SimpleKiss Posted March 18, 2010 Posted March 18, 2010 I talked to someone at Final Round who said that in a more recent Jap Tier list, that hakumen knocked Ragna off for Third (ragna is 4th now), and that Litchi took bang's spot for first. He also said someone discovered some ridiculous psuedo-infinite combo with Tsubaki that makes her broke as shit (but it's hard to do.) Ironically, I find no information about any of this stuff on dustloop and can't find videos, am I being lied to? I think I am, just want to see if there's something I am missing.
qwerty Posted March 18, 2010 Posted March 18, 2010 this chart is all kinds of wrong, but i guess that's to be expected when most of the people itt haven't even played cs yet
smooshman Posted March 18, 2010 Posted March 18, 2010 well people forget that there's a difference between 5.5-4.5 and 9-1. people just see advantage and disadvantage, I generally consider 5.5-4.5 fairly even. Also once again the player skill is far, far more often than not the deciding factor.
TheGreatReptar Posted March 18, 2010 Posted March 18, 2010 I talked to someone at Final Round who said that in a more recent Jap Tier list, that hakumen knocked Ragna off for Third (ragna is 4th now), and that Litchi took bang's spot for first. He also said someone discovered some ridiculous psuedo-infinite combo with Tsubaki that makes her broke as shit (but it's hard to do.) Ironically, I find no information about any of this stuff on dustloop and can't find videos, am I being lied to? I think I am, just want to see if there's something I am missing. Yea, I've been looking for that 70-hit Tsubaki combo all week. I'm really hoping it doesn't exist, even though I want to main Tsubaki. well people forget that there's a difference between 5.5-4.5 and 9-1. people just see advantage and disadvantage, I generally consider 5.5-4.5 fairly even. Also once again the player skill is far, far more often than not the deciding factor. I consider even 6-4 kind of even. At 5.5-4.5 and 6-4, if you just know the matchup, and why you have a disadvantage, it becomes much easier to handle. Once I learned why Litchi had a 4-6 against Ragna in CT (which is apparently because Litchi has no good reversals without her staff), it became far easier to play against Ragnas.
ShinsoBEAM Posted March 22, 2010 Posted March 22, 2010 I have been looking around and googling and does anyone have the latest trusted Japanese tier list...their seems to be a few things weird about this one.
Ichipoo Posted March 22, 2010 Posted March 22, 2010 I must not QQ, Rachel needs me to be strong.I really respect that. Still maining your favorite character despite their standing in the tier list. Noel needs me to be strong too.
TheGreatReptar Posted March 22, 2010 Posted March 22, 2010 I really respect that. Still maining your favorite character despite their standing in the tier list. Noel needs me to be strong too. Yea, I really wouldn't stick with Rachel if I had mained her in CT. That being said, I'm probably going to switch mains from Litchi, despite her moving to top tier. It just won't be as satisfying beating people online. I'm probably going to switch to Noel or Tsubaki (Noel if Tsubaki's 70 hit broken combo exists, Tsubaki if it turns out to not exist).
SimpleKiss Posted March 22, 2010 Posted March 22, 2010 I really respect that. Still maining your favorite character despite their standing in the tier list. Noel needs me to be strong too. I mained Hakumen all the way through CT; no excuses for my losses. Now it's time to figure out who the real rachel players are.
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